Article: Total Support: Why Jim Pohlad's Unsatisfying Comments May Be Wise

[USAFChief]

"I think it's well worth enduring the losing seasons for the result of a stocked farm system. I think this is the way to achieve sustained success."

 

This doesn't seem contradictory to you, Sam?  Losing seasons equals sustained success?

 

 

[Kwak]

"Total system failure"?  Is that an admission of "I believed the smoke machine and now we have to eat crow"?   If so, why continue with the same management that failed?   2016 is the fifth year of "the rebuild" or whatever buzzword was used to explain the need to dump Bill Smith.   If the players are to be blamed (and yes they should be!) who is responsible for their failure?   At some point failure can no longer be placed on the departed and must be assigned to those who  ​are in charge now.   The current system selected, developed, promoted, and trusted "the players" who are now admonished.   If the "system failed"  then rotating personnel won't fix anything. 

 

Too many are quick to place the blame on the rotation.  Examine the  first two weeks.   0-9, but with few exceptions the final scores were close and the losses were caused by a lack of offense.   Way too many strikeouts and very few hits with baserunners.  The 4-game "win streak" --some timely hitting, solid pitching and few gaffes in the field.   But a tough loss or two--and chaos followed.  Pohlad calls it "total system failure"--but all we see are some minor personnel removed.  If Ryan installs Gardenhire as part of "keeping the ole gang around"  then we'll see why this debacle occurred. 

Edited May 7, 2016 by Kwak

[tobi0040]

"I think it's well worth enduring the losing seasons for the result of a stocked farm system. I think this is the way to achieve sustained success."

 

This doesn't seem contradictory to you, Sam? Losing seasons equals sustained success?

My biggest issue is we are on about a 60 win pace. One top pick, even if we hit on it with a 8-10 WAR player doesn't put us in contention. It takes several of them.

 

Now I would like to see the Twins continue to go young this year and that may result in a few additional losses. I would not mind either the youth or additional losses.

 

While we are at it. May as well move May to the rotation. Add another pitcher and forgo the late pinch hitting opportunity

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

My biggest issue is we are on about a 60 win pace. One top pick, even if we hit on it with a 8-10 WAR player doesn't put us in contention. It takes several of them.

Now I would like to see the Twins continue to go young this year and that may result in a few additional losses. I would not mind either the youth or additional losses.

While we are at it. May as well move May to the rotation. Add another pitcher and forgo the late pinch hitting opportunity

 

I honestly hope that's where they go.  They have a lot of younger talent in the high minors.  Not sure I'd do it all at once, but I'd definitely start rotating them in.  

 

I'd give Ricky a few more starts to sink or swim and put him on the DFA list next if he sinks and trade him for a bucket of baseballs if he swims.  I'd trade Plouffe for whatever we can get (not expecting much, but maybe we can get lucky and pry away a blocked player for a team in desperate need of a 3B), install Sano at 3rd, and play musical chairs with Rochester OFs until someone plays well enough to keep the LF and RF jobs.  CF is going to be a mess at this point as Buxton needs time in AAA.  May as well let Santana play there for now.

 

I'd probably start rotating our 40 man RP prospects in and out of the pen at this point as well.  I expect them to struggle since they're in AA, but at the least you can let them spend a few weeks up here, let them taste the majors, and send them back with a list of a few things they need to work on.

[Twinsbar107]

 

I'd argue not understanding their place in the rebuild process is THE fundamental problem for this team.  

This, at some point you have to put up or shut up. How long until we are "contending" 2 years? so we would have 6 years of poor baseball? If it is 2 years we lose most of our veteran guys and will have the same problem, 3 or 4 guys playing well but the other 5 are not. Seems like an endless cycle, with the occasional winning season.

[Geneb]

I was glad to see Ryan come back because Smith literally made me sick. I wonder about waiving a left-handed starter. Seems like you could have got something for him. I'm also a Redskin fan and I remember the second coming of Joe Gibbs. He wasn't able to adjust to the new NFL. He picked Mark Brunell over Drew Bree's. I wonder if Ryan is up to the task. I want to say it was '85 when herbek and the kids were given free reign. We lost 100 games but two years later won the World Series. I would also point out that the first step the Braves took before their decade of no east titles was to bring in guys who could catch the ball. That would be a big improvement to this team.

[ThejacKmp]

 

We are not on the same page regarding the value of these guys.  I just know that I have heard countless times.  We need to get rid of Nolasco, or Mauer, or Fein, or Milone, or Ervin but nobody will take the contract.  At some point if I am the owner I am asking the GM, why do you keep signing guys that no other team wants?  Why did you convince me four months ago we should tender Milone, now we can’t find another team in the league to take him, etc.

 

With Ervin, I think it is the combination of he was durable, then PED’s, now is not anymore.  People probably question his durability now .  And Hermann, Butera, etc. were not making any money or on long term deals.

 

A brief aside: Mauer is a totally different. We were all very excited when the Twins kept Mauer. Just because a move doesn't work out doesn't mean that it wasn't a good move. Moving into a new stadium, the Twins had to keep Mauer. He's a hometown boy and the best Twin in most of our lifetimes. It's not crazy to say that Target Field was built so the Twins would be able to keep guys like Mauer (and eventually Sano, Buxton, Berrios). It's sad we're even talking about him in the same breath as a Nolasco or a Fien. Not the same thing.

-----

Overall I think you're confusing the Twins not getting rid of someone and an inability to get rid of someone. Just because the Twins don't choose to get rid of someone now doesn't mean that they couldn't. Unlike most people on TD, the Twins haven't given up on this season and don't think that some of these guys won't be part of the Twins next season. You can't just sell off everyone in the first week of May - you have to give the team a chance to rebound and sell off parts starting in late June. If nothing else than so young players have faith in the team.

 

The Twins aren't just going to dump Santana on someone right now - they believe he'll be a good starting pitcher for them and (right or wrong) they're not going to let a year and a month change that concept. You're not wrong in saying guys like Nolasco have little to no value but when you can't see Santana's value, you're blinded by your pessimism.

 

Fien and Milone are not the same as Santana or Nolasco either. Both of those guys were signed on cheap contracts to provide depth and were easily moved on from. The Twins didn't not sign someone else because of Fien and Milone - those guys were a bridge to younger players. Not the same as a Nolasco contract.

 

Nolasco was a bad contract in the vein of Kevin Correia (though KC's contract worked out so who can judge?) Santana was a decent contact where the Twins paid market value for a veteran starter. Nothing wrong with Hughes, Plouffe, Perkins, Dozier, Fien, Milone, Mauer, Park or Jepsen deals. Some didn't work out but that's the way life works. Of these deals, only the Nolasco deal is a really bad deal.

-----

A final aside: I'm very frustrated with Monday morning quarterbacks who are quick to criticize moves with the benefit of hindsight.

[jimmer]

 

 

-----

A final aside: I'm very frustrated with Monday morning quarterbacks who are quick to criticize moves with the benefit of hindsight.

Except that a lot of what is being said by posters now about what has happened are about things they expressed concerns/doubts about prior to the season even starting.  A lot of the things going wrong was easily predictable and was predicted by many prior to season start. This idea that every comment is just about knowing things in hindsight is not true at all.

Edited May 7, 2016 by jimmer

[Squirrel]

For the Twins to make a serious run at a division title in 2016 with the roster they had leaving Ft. Myers, a whole lot had to break right. Byron Buxton needed to take a big step forward at the plate, Joe Mauer needed to return to his old form, Phil Hughes needed to make 2016 look more like 2014 than 2015, Byung-Ho Park needed to hit the ground running, Glen Perkins needed to come back healthy, and about a half-dozen other things had to fall into place. Very little of it was outlandish in and of itself, but like predicting 10 flips of a coin, the sheer number of correct outcomes needed was what made the task so daunting.Some of them happened: Mauer had as good an April as he has had since 2010 and while Park was uneven in his first 10 games, he then hit .326/.375/.767 with eight of his 14 hits going for extra bases in the next 13. But far too few of the others did. Buxton looks lost, Perkins is still out injured, Hughes has been inconsistent at best, Eddie Rosario can’t stop swinging, and the list goes on. At a 10,000 ft. level, that’s how any team ends up 12 games under .500 fewer than 30 games into the season: The list of things that are going poorly is much, much longer than the list of things that are going well.Few who have watched this team so far would disagree with owner Jim Pohlad’s characterization of the team to the Star Tribune’s Chip Scoggins as a “total system failure.” The offense sits in the bottom third of the league, eight percent below league average; their defense has provided negative value. Their starters, expected to sit around league average, haven’t been close to that modest mark, and the bullpen has caved in, in the absence of Perkins. There are individual successes, but it’s hard to look at a unit on the field and say that they’re performing at or above expectations.What will raise more than a few eyebrows is that Pohlad then gave both general manager Terry Ryan and manager Paul Molitor an unequivocal vote of confidence and while it’s not always immediately clear, it didn’t seem to be the dreaded vote of confidence either. If there was any hope that the disastrous start to the season would result in a change in leadership, it’s gone for at least the rest of the season.To be frank, firing a GM midseason would be fairly out of step with how the Twins tend to conduct business, and that’s before taking into account Ryan’s years of service to the organization. One bad month, even one bad half season isn’t going to earn Ryan a midseason public dismissal. Short of a catastrophic error -- a rules violation during the draft/signing process resulting in a huge fine, releasing Buxton outright without cause, burning down Target Field -- it’s hard to imagine what Ryan would have to do to have his season end before the team’s did.If the goal is to keep the 2016 postseason in play, removing Ryan would do little good. There are no impact free agents available, no one in the draft is going to join the team and add seven wins from June 10 until the end of the year, major in-season trades are far more uncommon now than they used to be, and it’s hard to envision any other move designed to save 2016 that wouldn’t end up weakening the team substantially in the future. Yes, promoting and demoting players to their right levels is exceedingly important for the Twins in both the short- and long-term, but a new GM is actually less likely to make those calls correctly than Ryan is, simply because of his familiarity with the players up and down the system.Paradoxically, if the Twins were playing a little better, perhaps Ryan’s job would be more vulnerable because the marginal utility of changing GMs would be higher. Bringing in someone who had shown an aptitude for working the trade deadline in July and the waiver wire in August would be appealing since the AL looks like it will be decided by a razor-thin margin. (This presupposes that such a person is freely available at this point in the season, but that’s another column entirely.)Out of sheer proximity to the problem, the manager ought to be able to make the types of changes in-season that a GM can’t. But as the team has shown over the last few weeks, new blood isn’t enough to spark the team. Not counting pitchers, the team has had 15 players take the field with Brian Dozier, Eduardo Escobar, and Rosario about the only players who haven’t split a meaningful amount time at their respective positions, so it’s not as if the opening day lineup has been run out for 28 consecutive games and this is the result. Changes are being made, they’re just producing the same outcomes.Moving on from Molitor would certainly shake things up, and unlike Ryan, there are logical candidates available to take over. Gene Glynn, Mike Quade, and Doug Mientkiewicz are all within the organization and were either considered for the managerial vacancy left by Ron Gardenhire or have MLB managerial experience. So whereas Ryan is virtually locked in until the end of the season, Molitor could theoretically be moved.The downside is that it means burning a bridge with a legendary hitter who the players -- at least publicly -- seem to like and to whom they respond. There’s also no guarantee it will work. Glynn and Mientkiewicz have good minor league track records to buoy their candidacies, but there’s a huge difference between motivating a 19-year-old kid whose dreams are still ahead of him to work hard and getting the same response out of veterans like Eduardo Nunez or Kurt Suzuki. Quade did have some time working with the Cubs during their rebuilding phase, but they finished 20 games under .500 during his only full season at the helm, which is hardly a sterling reference.Molitor’s managerial ability is far from a known quantity. Last year’s team overperformed in his first full season by nearly as much as this year’s team is underperforming. He hasn’t shown an unhelpful fetishization of one particular type of player, nor has he proven incapable of handling a bullpen. The obvious warts aren’t there, but that doesn’t make him good, it just makes him not-bad-in-readily-apparent-ways. It may become clear what his deficiencies are as the season progresses, but losing him in service of a vague effort to spur a team that may well have put themselves in too deep a hole to recover from doesn’t seem like a good use of resources. Because, while he may prove himself to be a poor fit for a team that figures to be young and volatile for the next few years, it’s equally possible that he’ll prove to be a tremendous fit even if the team finishes 71-91. Plus, statistically speaking, firing a manager midseason doesn’t make your team appreciably better in the vast majority of cases. It’s a show of force, but if it doesn’t translate to more wins on the field, it can hardly be considered worth doing.Given that he’ll have just one more year on his contract after the die is cast on this season, it seems more than likely that the Twins will give Molitor the full value of his contract, then evaluate his performance from there. Assuming this year finishes in the same vein as it has started -- if not the exact same path -- that will put quite a bit of pressure on Molitor going into the 2017 season, as he’ll have one impressive season under his belt and one fairly poor one.While there is good reason to keep both Ryan and Molitor where they are for the rest of 2016 season, the takeaway here isn’t that Pohlad was right and that Ryan and Molitor are unquestionably the right people for their jobs. Ultimately, Ryan is the architect of a team that has been dire since 2011 (with a brief respite last year) and Molitor is the final authority on game-to-game matters for a team on pace to finish 47-115, the worst mark in franchise history and the Twins’ first 100+ loss team since 1982. And while 115 losses would be embarrassing even given how the season started, that 1982 mark is very much in play.The takeaway here is that, as with virtually everything in baseball, there is a rhythm and a seasonality to leadership changes, and that jumping out of that order doesn’t necessarily produce better outcomes. If the ownership group believes there is even a 1% chance they’ll want to move on from Ryan come the offseason, they should start making that determination now. Do the necessary due diligence and be ready to make a call at the right moment. Taking the time to do the requisite research, let Ryan know what to expect, and positioning to the public for either his return or his departure will go a long way to making sure the 2017 Twins aren’t fighting these same battles.Next week, I’ll take a deep dive into Ryan’s time with the Twins. The highs, lows, and how he stacks up against some of the league’s top architects right now.Click here to view the article

Just so it's clear to everyone, this article was written by TD poster/contributor dwade and not Seth. Someone may have mentioned this at some points within the comments that I haven't yet entirely read.

[Mike Sixel]

y'all really need new software.....it seems a bit outdated, this posting thing is a great example

[Squirrel]

y'all really need new software.....it seems a bit outdated, this posting thing is a great example

It's not software error that it happens, it's user error. It is the system, however, that it can't be corrected in the forums.

[Craig Arko]

It's not software error that it happens, it's user error. It is the system, however, that it can't be corrected in the forums.

So it's a total system failure?

[tobi0040]

A brief aside: Mauer is a totally different. We were all very excited when the Twins kept Mauer. Just because a move doesn't work out doesn't mean that it wasn't a good move. Moving into a new stadium, the Twins had to keep Mauer. He's a hometown boy and the best Twin in most of our lifetimes. It's not crazy to say that Target Field was built so the Twins would be able to keep guys like Mauer (and eventually Sano, Buxton, Berrios). It's sad we're even talking about him in the same breath as a Nolasco or a Fien. Not the same thing.

-----

Overall I think you're confusing the Twins not getting rid of someone and an inability to get rid of someone. Just because the Twins don't choose to get rid of someone now doesn't mean that they couldn't. Unlike most people on TD, the Twins haven't given up on this season and don't think that some of these guys won't be part of the Twins next season. You can't just sell off everyone in the first week of May - you have to give the team a chance to rebound and sell off parts starting in late June. If nothing else than so young players have faith in the team.

 

The Twins aren't just going to dump Santana on someone right now - they believe he'll be a good starting pitcher for them and (right or wrong) they're not going to let a year and a month change that concept. You're not wrong in saying guys like Nolasco have little to no value but when you can't see Santana's value, you're blinded by your pessimism.

 

Fien and Milone are not the same as Santana or Nolasco either. Both of those guys were signed on cheap contracts to provide depth and were easily moved on from. The Twins didn't not sign someone else because of Fien and Milone - those guys were a bridge to younger players. Not the same as a Nolasco contract.

 

Nolasco was a bad contract in the vein of Kevin Correia (though KC's contract worked out so who can judge?) Santana was a decent contact where the Twins paid market value for a veteran starter. Nothing wrong with Hughes, Plouffe, Perkins, Dozier, Fien, Milone, Mauer, Park or Jepsen deals. Some didn't work out but that's the way life works. Of these deals, only the Nolasco deal is a really bad deal.

-----

A final aside: I'm very frustrated with Monday morning quarterbacks who are quick to criticize moves with the benefit of hindsight.

In the theme of accountability, which is what I took away from the article I am simply putting the case together about TR's role and would suggest this is on him more than anyone else . It is much more detailed than running a Monday morning QB situation or questioning one contract.

 

He has fired the head coach, hitting coach, and pitching coach and hired the new coaches (as well as a minor league coach or two). And if you look at the roster he has put together, I believe that he would not find a taker for 9-10 of the biggest 12 contracts he has signed (although Smith signed Mauer when he was a consultant). Note: I am not saying he would not be able to give guys away, but if he has to eat salary to move a guy that is an indictment against the contract he gave in the first place.

 

He has just DFA'd 3-4 others, including his rule 5 pick from last year that we stashed on our 25 man roster all year and refused to play him in a meaningful spot.

 

And he appears to not be on the same page with his coach regarding guys like Meyer and Kepler.

 

So it just seems to me that all the chairs have been shuffled except one.

[TheLeviathan]

 

So it just seems to me that all the chairs have been shuffled except one.

 

And sometimes the game passes you by.  Phil Jackson, granted in a new role, is finding that out.  It's possible he's just not the right guy any more and it's time to move on.

 

Unfortunately, I think the only man who can really make that decision is Terry Ryan and not his bosses.  But it's time to move in a different direction as an organization.

[tobi0040]

And sometimes the game passes you by. Phil Jackson, granted in a new role, is finding that out. It's possible he's just not the right guy any more and it's time to move on.

 

Unfortunately, I think the only man who can really make that decision is Terry Ryan and not his bosses. But it's time to move in a different direction as an organization.

I think you are right that he would need to resign. I don't think he will until we have a good season. I think he is concerned about his legacy.

 

The comical thing is they would probably have a series of interviews and then give the job to Rob Anthony

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I think you are right that he would need to resign. I don't think he will until we have a good season. I think he is concerned about his legacy.

The comical thing is they would probably have a series of interviews and then give the job to Rob Anthony

 

That's my bigger concern.  Nothing I've seen concerning Anthony gives me the warm and fuzzies that he'd be a decent GM.  I could be wrong.  I hope I'm wrong, but I won't be happy if he's the guy.

[AlwaysinModeration]

It cannot be total system failure if Ryan and Molitor have not failed...total includes those two.

 

Now saying that ... is not contradictory...He is saying he likes those guys so much that he is fine with failure.

Good points. But I don't think it is so much that he is fine with failure, just that he doesn't demand they strive to be the best. They target average players, rarely, if ever, elite players.

 

There have been numerous posts about how the Twins have invested a lot of innings throwing players into positions they have never played before at any level. And doing it at the major-league level, against the best in the world. I think Molitor should be included in this list, having never managed before.

[AlwaysinModeration]

BTW... He gets credit for the Park signing. So the off season wasn't totally bad.

Except that they admitted that they didn't expect to get Park, and they didn't know what to do with their roster once he got there, resulting in moving their top young player to a position he has never played an inning of in his life, and no one his size in the history of baseball had succeeded in the outfield before.

 

Not sure if that's a scenario deserving of too much credit.

[Riverbrian]

 

Except that they admitted that they didn't expect to get Park, and they didn't know what to do with their roster once he got there, resulting in moving their top young player to a position he has never played an inning of in his life, and no one his size in the history of baseball had succeeded in the outfield before.

Not sure if that's a scenario deserving of too much credit.

 

Yeah... But... I like Park and Sano in RF doesn't scare me that much.

 

The only thing that scared me was the declaration that he would only play RF. 

[Jack Torse]

Ryan is likely to step down and take the heat off the organization for making a change at GM if an improbable rebound doesn't occur.  But what will that change?  It's not like he's going to be replaced with a different guy with a philosophy that isn't lock stock and barrel with the same Twins cliches.  They are reluctant to bring in players from outside their ball team much less  someone from the outside to lead the front office.  Most of the players are not performing like anyone expected.  Worse, most are performing well below expectations.  They have a lot of young players in over their heads to begin with.   Plus key injuries. It's kind of just that simple and given so much youth not that unexpected.

[drivlikejehu]

Ryan's decision-making after this season will reveal a lot about his character. He should not only resign, but also recommend to Pohlad that he look for outside replacement GM candidates.

 

I mean, Ryan doesn't even want the job in the first place . . . he'd rather be retired or semi-retired. It would be damning if, under those circumstances, pride prevented him from accepting responsibility and paving the way for change.

[beckmt]

We will find out in the next years.  If all of the position players he has drafted turn out  to be AAAA types, then the whole philosophy must change.  Sano and Kepler do not count as they were signings and look to be the best of the bunch. If Buxton does not  turn out they you are valid to ask why he was the only one of the top 5 to fail.

[spinowner]

Replace Molitor? Or Ryan or Pohlad? OK, but only if the replacement(s) are very likely to be an improvement over the status quo. A corollary to that is the replacement(s) would be someone we believe in enough to keep in place through rough patches. High turnover is not good, especially at GM.

[Champuckett]

 

I mean, Ryan doesn't even want the job in the first place . . . he'd rather be retired or semi-retired. It would be damning if, under those circumstances, pride prevented him from accepting responsibility and paving the way for change.

 

This.

 

TR only reluctantly took the job after Bill Smith had "overspent" and created a poor team in 2011.  It seemed when TR retired originally, he was done being a GM and was fine doing a reduced size roll for the organization.  It was only when Pohlad called on him to step in that he re-emerged as the GM.

 

I think it's possible that he doesn't enjoy doing this job anymore and it shows.  He retired for a reason originally, but he was semi-forced into this position.  He didn't seem happy at all about having to fire Gardy.  I've never seen someone so down about firing what was an incredible obvious thing to do, a 90+ loss 4 time repeater manager.  He doesn't seem happy about having to make big changes, acquire new people in trades, or demote, promote, send players to different teams, etc.  He just doesn't like doing any of it and it never has seemed since he has come back that he has enthusiasm about doing this.  Maybe he is just a gruff guy that hates change or maybe it's the health problems he has been dealing with.

 

Either way, he does have the job right now and the firing of Gardy, reluctant as it may have been, is what he may also come to the conclusion of doing, for himself.  It might be the best thing not just for us and the franchise, but for him as a person.  He never wanted this and I hope the Pohlads can respect that.  The pressure and reliance on him from them may be what is keeping him there.

[Kwak]

This "total system failure" was cast in 2012 when Pohlad decided to restore Ryan.  That decision showed his lack of passion for MLB and that Twins were:  a dividend check,  a footprint in the community (oh so useful for preferential treatment from the community rulers),  and membership in an exclusive club.  Ryan represents a need for complete control of a "family business" and the security that delivers.  Twins fans simply misunderstood that there is more than one definition of " a winning baseball team".

[USAFChief]

Replace Molitor? Or Ryan or Pohlad? OK, but only if the replacement(s) are very likely to be an improvement over the status quo. A corollary to that is the replacement(s) would be someone we believe in enough to keep in place through rough patches. High turnover is not good, especially at GM.

I'm not sure any organization, ever, held the standard of "very likely to be an improvement over the status quo" when the status quo is " failure."

 

And "keep in place" through rough patches isn't exactly an overriding concern either, IMO.

 

There's a very good chance by October this team will have accumulated 550 losses over the past six seasons. One playoff win in decades. Current roster in shambles. All with basically the same management.

 

"Not likely to be worse" seems a more appropriate standard to me.

[AlwaysinModeration]

Yeah... But... I like Park and Sano in RF doesn't scare me that much.

 

The only thing that scared me was the declaration that he would only play RF.

I like Park too. I was pleasantly surprised when word trickled out that so many teams that hadn't put in the winning bid weren't the Twins, and that...slowly...it became possible, and then a reality, that the Twins had won the bid.

 

What's odd to me though, is to really think about the fact that the Twins brass said they didn't expect to win the bid, were surprised, and had to figure out what to do after it became reality.

 

What does that mean? It means, if you think about it, that they put in a bid that they were fairly sure wouldn't win. They weren't really trying to get him at all.

 

To me, that seems like an indictment of their approach. Not only are they not really trying to go after elite players, but they also want to put in low bids to be able to say "they tried."

 

It's kind of reminiscent of offering Hunter and Santana half their market value. "But guys, we tried to get them to stick around!"

[tobi0040]

Ryan is likely to step down and take the heat off the organization for making a change at GM if an improbable rebound doesn't occur. But what will that change? It's not like he's going to be replaced with a different guy with a philosophy that isn't lock stock and barrel with the same Twins cliches. They are reluctant to bring in players from outside their ball team much less someone from the outside to lead the front office. Most of the players are not performing like anyone expected. Worse, most are performing well below expectations. They have a lot of young players in over their heads to begin with. Plus key injuries. It's kind of just that simple and given so much youth not that unexpected.

They strike me as a very insolar team, like a company with a do nothing, clubby, board of directors. They are all buddies and nobody wants to rock the boat and hold anyone accountable.

[jtkoupal]

I understand that the 2015 Twins overachieved. However, there must be a reason for a team to go from a winning team to the worst team in the league with the same cast of characters in drastic and almost inexplicable. I completely believe that we should search for answers outside of our organization. Unfortunately, Pohlad has shown an affinity to do so. What you mentioned with Gardy can also be said for Terry Ryan, he stepped down for a while then retook the GM position. I am perfectly on board with searching for answers outside of the organization. However, this severe of a collapse is almost inexplicable. I'm not pinning anything on one person, but Ownership and General Management changes can produce the most change, along with the manager. Unfortunately, though, any further collapse could lead to players being shipped out too. Just saying. I agree with everything you said, but I don't see how the same cast of characters can go from a winning team with a bright future to a disaster that can hardly score a run much less win a game. It sometimes starts at the top, even more so in baseball.

[DaveW]

 

Mauer   $23M
Santana $13M
Nolasco  $12M
Hughes  $9M
Plouffe  $7.2M
Perkins $6.3M
Suzuki  $6M
Jepsen  $5M
Milone  $4.5M
Dozier  $3M
Park $2.7M
Fein  $2.2M

 

 

Let’s take a step back.   These 12 players are making $94M, not a cherry picked list.  These are the Twins ranked by salary.   How many of these guys could we trade right now and have another team take on their full contract?  Park for sure.  Maybe Dozier. A slight chance on Plouffe but probably not. So we have $89M devoted to 10 players that have no value at all.  That is a huge indictment of the GM.

I am far, far, far from a TR fan but I would like to make a couple points below:

 

1. The Dodgers took on Fien, yay!

 

2. It's hard to fault him for the Perkins deal, at the time it was a very "Team friendly" type extension and Perkins was one of the better closers in the league (and continued to be) It's hard to predict an otherwise healthy guy would suddenly get the injury bug.

 

3. If Mauer keeps up his production, it's not inconceivable that he hypothetically "could" be moved. He is only signed for two more years after this and worse contracts have been moved before. However, the Twins shouldn't trade Mauer, nor would they due to his NTC. Either way, I refuse to fault TR for signing Mauer long term.

 

4. Plouffe could easily be traded, his salary isn't cost prohibitive at all really, again, what is TR supposed to do, let Plouffe walk?

 

5. Ditto with Jepsen.

 

Now the Nolasco, Suzuki and Hughes (extension) are all complete disasters as contracts no doubt, and the Santana one is closer to "meh" so I agree with you on those. Overall, TR's main problem is failing to realize when to "go for it" and when to "sell it all", in addition to actually trying to fix the bullpen, sign or trade for a REAL ace or stop relying on guys like Suzuki.