Article: Minnesota's Misuse of Meyer?

[Deduno Abides]

Are you suggesting Neil Allen is a bad coach? Because... No, I can't agree with that even a little bit.

 

What Meyer needed was confidence and support. He didn't get that from Molitor with the quick hook in a game where he was struggling but not terrible.

I have no idea if Neil Allen is a good or a bad coach, but am willing to be persuaded. What has he shown so far?

[KGB]

 

He has talent. He needs wisdom. Unfortunately, it seems like the Twins shy away from this profile for pitchers and don't have a good track record of teaching wisdom, which is why veterans of moderate talent are given more opportunities.

A lot of player have talent and never make it.  I'm not saying the Twins management is faultless in developing players, just that most of the responsibility falls on the player.  I don't think the coaches can take a lot of credit for Mauer's turnaround this year, do you?.  I give Mauer credit for what he's done. 

 

But we seem to blame management for everything bad - if a player comes up at 22 and fails, they rushed him, if we player fails at 26, we waited too long to bring him up and didn't show confidence in him.  It's not the Twins fault if he has an ugly girlfriend

[Deduno Abides]

 

But we seem to blame management for everything bad - if a player comes up at 22 and fails, they rushed him, if we player fails at 26, we waited too long to bring him up and didn't show confidence in him.  It's not the Twins fault if he has an ugly girlfriend

Along with coming up with a strategy, the most important actions for any organization are (1) attracting talent and (2) developing talent. Supposedly, the Twins have done a pretty good job of attracting talent (although I would have traded a lot of veterans for a larger stock of young players, going back to when Cuddyer and Kubel were entering free agency, and the "draft college relievers" strategy seems shaky, so far), but the track record of successful development is not good. Perhaps it will take a couple more years, but you'd expect a team with years of high draft choices and supposedly superior scouting to have a more than average number of successful young players. Yes, that's management's responsibility.

[Otto von Ballpark]

A lot of player have talent and never make it. I'm not saying the Twins management is faultless in developing players, just that most of the responsibility falls on the player. I don't think the coaches can take a lot of credit for Mauer's turnaround this year, do you?. I give Mauer credit for what he's done.

 

But we seem to blame management for everything bad - if a player comes up at 22 and fails, they rushed him, if we player fails at 26, we waited too long to bring him up and didn't show confidence in him. It's not the Twins fault if he has an ugly girlfriend

I think you are reading too much into most of these recent complaints. I for one am not necessarily blaming management for Meyer's results. Just that the results would be easier to swallow if they weren't accompanied by completely nonsensical management decisions like promoting Meyer to park him on the MLB bench. Or promoting Kepler, starting him once against a tough lefty and refusing to pinch hit for him while he gets embarassed by said lefty in a game defining at bat, then parking him on the MLB bench. As the recent wave of waiver/DFA moves should indicate, we were nowhere near a 40 man roster crisis to warrant this handling of top prospects.

[PopRiveter]

They're giving him big league chances each time he starts to show he deserves a look...

...and he poos the bed.

Not yet a starter. Not yet a reliever.

I don't blame the Twins one bit for how he's used. If he was successful at this level, you could say they're jerking him around, but they're just trying to give him shots and he's blown them all.

[Otto von Ballpark]

They're giving him big league chances each time he starts to show he deserves a look...

...and he poos the bed.

Not yet a starter. Not yet a reliever.

I don't blame the Twins one bit for how he's used. If he was successful at this level, you could say they're jerking him around, but they're just trying to give him shots and he's blown them all.

Promoting him to be an emergency reliever, or Kepler to be a bench player, is almost the definition of not giving someone a chance.

 

And pulling him early in his debut start, at the exact point you let Berrios work through it the night before, is also a pretty poor effort a giving someone a chance.

[Mr. Brooks]

They're giving him big league chances each time he starts to show he deserves a look...

...and he poos the bed.

Not yet a starter. Not yet a reliever.

I don't blame the Twins one bit for how he's used. If he was successful at this level, you could say they're jerking him around, but they're just trying to give him shots and he's blown them all.

When you say "each time he starts", you mean the exactly ONE time that he has made a start in mlb, right?

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

Meyer pitched better than just about every starter since his start, and better than most of the relievers since. That is not saying much, but if all are floundering on a bad team you have to keep trying to give the upside the chance...and NOT hoping that others can somehow regain what they no longer are, or only were for brief periods.

[barbarosa]

 

What is the big picture for Milone? I would argue a lack of big picture view is what irritates many of us.

Further, it is delusional to think we are going to get anything of value for Nolasco. So it is not in the best interest to allocate many more innings to him in hopes he yields something slightly better (versus breaking in a talented pitcher)

I can't help but think that guys like May and Meyer just don't fit the mold the Twins are used to. They have not been able to adjust to guys with slightly less than perfect control, even if they are a good 2 additional k's per 9 than what we have.

Well...I think we have the big picture for Milone...I cannot remember a time when the Twins were in so much turn over/around with players.  haha

 

Delusional maybe, but the Twins don't look like they are going to just can Nolasco for youth...got to hope for a trade,  and so far he is doing better than anyone else.  And I agree, the "mold" thing, I think we will see Meyers back up sooner than later.

[old nurse]

 

Calling it hindsight, when the entire board was questioning it as it happened? That seems unfair.

As unfair as a calling everyone is thinking the same way

[old nurse]

The only indictment of the Twins handling of Meyer is that he was not given a chance to fail sooner. If he had the chance to fail in 2014  and did, then there are the rushed him to soon comments.  Easy criticism as there is no way to defend a move, no real way to say it was wrong as a move other than opinion.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The only indictment of the Twins handling of Meyer is that he was not given a chance to fail sooner. If he had the chance to fail in 2014 and did, then there are the rushed him to soon comments. Easy criticism as there is no way to defend a move, no real way to say it was wrong as a move other than opinion.

I am pretty sure no one would have said Meyer was rushed if we promoted him late in 2014, when he was 24.5 years old and was very successful in AAA. For example, no one said May was rushed under similar circumstances, or Gibson, etc.

[Platoon]

Two general thoughts on the Twins pitching situation. If the FO has no issues with higher velocity pitchers, with both higher SO and walk rates than we are used to seeing, it has not shown itself in the last 20 years. In honor of Mother's Day, I quote her. "The proof is in the pudding" . Second, if Alex Meyer does not get an extended look as a SP on the ML level this year an oversight is being made. There is absolutely nothing to lose, and what's the worst that could happen? A three inning stint by a starter?

[Otto von Ballpark]

To add insult to injury, we had a quick hook for Meyer in part to turn the ball over to Milone while the game was still close -- and Milone put the game out of reach, and two days later was waived and outrighted to AAA in favor of everybody's favorite fringe 40 man guy, Pat Dean.

 

Who the heck is making decisions right now for the Twins? They are all over the map.

[Loosey]

Any official word yet on what is going on with Meyer?  I still don't see him in any of the starting pitcher upcoming games for Rochester, they are all TBD from tomorrow on.

[Linus]

It's been reported that he has some shoulder soreness so they are sitting him a few days.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

It's been reported that he has some shoulder soreness so they are sitting him a few days.

Few weeks?

[jimmer]

He hasn't pitched for two weeks so far.

[Loosey]

 

He hasn't pitched for two weeks so far.

Why would they not put him on the DL if he really had this type of fatigue?  He last pitched May 4 in Houston.  Exactly 15 days ago today.  Something is going on that is more than shoulder fatigue.  I hope he is alright, but something doesn't add up to shoulder fatigue  + no DL stint.

[Loosey]

 

Why would they not put him on the DL if he really had this type of fatigue?  He last pitched May 4 in Houston.  Exactly 15 days ago today.  Something is going on that is more than shoulder fatigue.  I hope he is alright, but something doesn't add up to shoulder fatigue  + no DL stint.

I saw he played catch on Monday.  So that is a good sign.