Article: Give Alex Meyer A Chance To Start

[Riverbrian]

 

Whenever the value of something rises, the value of something else diminishes. If MLB salaries aren't a zero sum game, they're something close to it.

 

If the price of relievers spirals out of control, go find the market that is undervalued and get your performance value from that part of the roster.

 

Interesting viewpoint. 

 

I wish the Twins would have used that very same logic when they over valued the backup catcher position and made a trade in the off season. 

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

The value of a good bullpen is directly correlated with how good the rest of the team is (rotation, lineup, defense.) That Yankee bullpen is awesome, but he team still isn't winning because the staff has been bad. Good bullpen can't be 1st priority. It can be second after bats or rotation, but putting it first is nonsensical. A team needs to be decent to good for the bullpen to really really important, otherwise, teams should be looking to fix their rotations and lineups first.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Interesting viewpoint. 

 

I wish the Twins would have used that very same logic when they over valued the backup catcher position and made a trade in the off season. 

Interestingly, the Twins played both sides of that coin this offseason.

 

They traded for Murphy, which *may* have been an overpay. But that's still very much up in the air.

 

But they also traded Herrmann for Palka and made Arizona overpay for a (bad) catcher.

 

And then they let Fryer go for nothing.

 

And then they went and picked up Hicks for nothing.

 

This team confuses the hell out of me.

[Riverbrian]

 

Interestingly, the Twins played both sides of that coin this offseason.

 

They traded for Murphy, which *may* have been an overpay. But that's still very much up in the air.

 

But they also traded Herrmann for Palka and made Arizona overpay for a (bad) catcher.

 

And then they let Fryer go for nothing.

 

And then they went and picked up Hicks for nothing.

 

This team confuses the hell out of me.

 

LOL

 

When it is all said and done. 

 

This past off-season will be remembered as the time when Terry Ryan tried that dartboard theory out. 

[ThejacKmp]

 

They gave Milone $5 million just a few months ago and aren't willing to admit they were wrong.  He will continue to be run out there through May.  

 

I don't agree with this btw.  Start Meyer

 

I don't think they were wrong to give Milone $5 million. He hasn't been sharp but $5 million is a modest investment in a back of the rotation starter (see Pelfrey, Mike). Teams can always use pitching depth and Milone is a very nice guy to have in that role. If the Twins placed him on waivers, some team would grab him and say, "Thank you very much for your pitching depth."

 

Where they'd be wrong is to not allow upside to trump Milone. He's at his best a #4 starter and more likely a decent #5 starter. They have young guys who have way more upside. And for what it's worth, I think he's a bad start away from moving into the pen (likely for Meyer). To me, that's the reason Meyer isn't pitching up here - they're going to use him as a long reliever for a few days and give Milone one more start before turning it over.

 

I for one am very impressed with how quickly TR and Molitor have turned to young starters. Yeah some injuries were involved and yeah we might have wanted it to happen a few days earlier but they've not shied away from bringing up young guys. That's refreshing. Hopefully Berrios can pull a Duffey and rebound from a tough first start.

[Tibs]

 

The majority of Ryan's decisions are of the knee-jerk variety. 

He seems a little old to be jerking his knee around all the time. He should really start paying attention to his health.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Maybe one of you can help me with the timing here. How many starts are available to parcel out before Santana and Gibson come off the DL? It looks like there is an audition of sorts going on for at least one starting spot between Duffy, Berrios, Milone, and now maybe Meyer.  Duffy has had one chance and gets another Saturday (unfortunately against Zimmerman), Berrios had his first shot last night and it sounds like he gets a second next Tuesday against the Astros, and Sunday is officially TBA so you have to think it is either Meyer's first shot or Milone's last shot.  I'm just curious as to when decision time(s) comes on this. You could arguable put Milone in the bullpen and make the decision there (bye, bye O'Rouke or Fien), same with Duffy given his closing days in college.  You probably send Berrios and/or Meyer back to AAA for more starts if they don't win the competition to come back in the event of another injury or a trade of Nolasco.  In any event, I do think these next DL games will make the decision so I'm curious as to how many chances each pitcher is likely to get. 

 

As Brock reminded me yesterday, we are best off not trying to figure out the plan......

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

As Brock reminded me yesterday, we are best off not trying to figure out the plan......

Seriously, has there been any official talk from the FO or Molitor on what is the immediate plan with Meyer and their explanation for not using him? This seems extremely weird in their handling of of their call-ups. I wasn't too happy about Keppler sitting on the bench and getting his first start vs a lefty...seemed like the worst plan to me. But, Meyer's situation just seems like they are TRYING to screw him up again. Of course, he will only get one shot up here too I bet. So, if they sit him forever and he then is rusty and jittery on his first opportunity...maybe give the guy the benefit of the doubt and take some ownership in how he was handled? 

 

I thought for sure they would send Berrios back down after last nights small sample that included bad weather and a delayed start. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Maybe one of you can help me with the timing here. How many starts are available to parcel out before Santana and Gibson come off the DL? It looks like there is an audition of sorts going on for at least one starting spot between Duffy, Berrios, Milone, and now maybe Meyer.  Duffy has had one chance and gets another Saturday (unfortunately against Zimmerman), Berrios had his first shot last night and it sounds like he gets a second next Tuesday against the Astros, and Sunday is officially TBA so you have to think it is either Meyer's first shot or Milone's last shot.  I'm just curious as to when decision time(s) comes on this.

Ervin Santana would be eligible to return Friday May 6, and Kyle Gibson on Sunday May 8.

 

Assuming they make no other changes, Berrios and Duffey would each get one more start before that.  Milone only has one tentative start in that time too (Sunday).

[tobi0040]

 

Thank you. That really helps. It looks like Duffy and Berrios will get a least 2 starts and Meyer one, assuming Meyer starts Sunday. If you add a day or two before reactivating Santana or Gibson, you can probably get a second start for Meyer in if he does well in the first.  It seems like that's a decent opportunity for these guys to show whether or not they're ready, although 3 starts apiece would be better.  

 

I think you need many more starts than that to get a read.  May and Gibson were awful in their first 10 starts, while Duffey was lights out.  My gut tells me that they would rank May, Gibson, and Duffey over their careers.

[jokin]

 

Meyer was brought up to fill a need for fresh arms in the bullpen due to the 16 inning game on Sunday.

 

While I agree that he should've been the first call on Monday when Milone again faltered in the 5th inning.  That was really the only opportunity to put him in since he has been called up.

 

If Berrios is too amped up tonight and can't find the strike zone and has an early exit, I expect Meyer to be the first guy called in from the BP.

 

How'd that one work out? I predicted the opposite, and unfortunately I was correct. It will now be, at the minimum, 9 days since Meyer will have last pitched in a game (should he somehow get in the game on Friday).

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

How'd that one work out? I predicted the opposite, and unfortunately I was correct. It will now be, at the minimum, 9 days since Meyer will have last pitched in a game (should he somehow get in the game on Friday).

Seriously, are they going to give us something on what they heck they are doing with Meyer? Is he on the DL....might as well be.

[CampQ]

Without the awesome defense, emphasis on on base percentage, and a manager willing to use young RPs......sure, just the same.

Tongue in cheek

[Shaitan]

I posted this elsewhere and didn't see a response, but the Twins were super careful with Meyer's innings in 2012-2014, then they dipped due to last year's bullpen demotion.

 

Are they watching innings this year? If so, I'd say he's bullpen for sure. But maybe he's far enough removed from the shoulder injury that it's not as important. Anybody heard anything on this?

[Shaitan]

 

Not sure why your post is scored out. But Ryan is still his boss. He can tell Molitor "use the players I give you in the way I have intended or take a hike". 

 

Except when Dipoto tried that last year with Scoscia he was quickly fired.

[Platoon]

Whenever the value of something rises, the value of something else diminishes. If MLB salaries aren't a zero sum game, they're something close to it.

 

If the price of relievers spirals out of control, go find the market that is undervalued and get your performance value from that part of the roster.

I think this is what Ryan has done with stocking offense over defense and pitching. But most sports are tilted towards a position, i.e. QB, Goalie, and to me in baseball it's pitching. You can get value for the buck buying undervalued positions, but can you win. Win enough to be a true contender?

[Platoon]

Whenever the value of something rises, the value of something else diminishes. If MLB salaries aren't a zero sum game, they're something close to it.

 

If the price of relievers spirals out of control, go find the market that is undervalued and get your performance value from that part of the roster.

I think this is what Ryan has done with stocking offense over defense and pitching. But most sports are tilted towards a position, i.e. QB, Goalie, and to me in baseball it's pitching. You can get value for the buck buying undervalued positions, but can you win. Win enough to be a true contender?

I don't think they were wrong to give Milone $5 million. He hasn't been sharp but $5 million is a modest investment in a back of the rotation starter (see Pelfrey, Mike). Teams can always use pitching depth and Milone is a very nice guy to have in that role. If the Twins placed him on waivers, some team would grab him and say, "Thank you very much for your pitching depth."

 

Where they'd be wrong is to not allow upside to trump Milone. He's at his best a #4 starter and more likely a decent #5 starter. They have young guys who have way more upside. And for what it's worth, I think he's a bad start away from moving into the pen (likely for Meyer). To me, that's the reason Meyer isn't pitching up here - they're going to use him as a long reliever for a few days and give Milone one more start before turning it over.

 

I for one am very impressed with how quickly TR and Molitor have turned to young starters. Yeah some injuries were involved and yeah we might have wanted it to happen a few days earlier but they've not shied away from bringing up young guys. That's refreshing. Hopefully Berrios can pull a Duffey and rebound from a tough first start.

. Yeah, some injuries were involved. Which is SOP around here. If you can stay healthy, you can survive almost any performance, or lack thereof. Get injured, and you might not get back. We appear to operate in the "Wally Pip" mode. To me the Meyer thing is very odd. First they tipped over the roster, because we HAD to have pitching, then the starter goes -5 the next night, and we miraculously find all kinds of pitching. And Wed night down 3, he still doesn't get in the game in the 6th, a classic long relief spot. Either Ryan brought up Meyer and told Molly he didn't have to pitch him, Molly is being pig headed, or they think they are legitimate contenders, and going balls to the wall to win every game they can. Frankly the last option scares me the most!

[rochester]

 

Seriously, has there been any official talk from the FO or Molitor on what is the immediate plan with Meyer and their explanation for not using him? This seems extremely weird in their handling of of their call-ups. I wasn't too happy about Keppler sitting on the bench and getting his first start vs a lefty...seemed like the worst plan to me. But, Meyer's situation just seems like they are TRYING to screw him up again. Of course, he will only get one shot up here too I bet. So, if they sit him forever and he then is rusty and jittery on his first opportunity...maybe give the guy the benefit of the doubt and take some ownership in how he was handled? 

 

I thought for sure they would send Berrios back down after last nights small sample that included bad weather and a delayed start. 

I was wondering the same thing.  The poor guy, just waiting and waiting and WAITING!  What will end up happening now that Meyer hasn't pitched in over a week, when and IF they do bring him in, I hope he is successful, but my fear is that IF he does come in and struggles, the forums will blow up and talk about how bad he was and right away say he needs to go back to AAA (where he probably should have stayed as he would have thrown by now) and run him through the ringer.  IF he does 'struggle', I don't think I'd blame him.  You've got to keep these guys on a schedule, keep them throwing.  All of these days off just mess with their heads AND their throwing.  I am really confused on this one...

[d-mac]

 

Except when Dipoto tried that last year with Scoscia he was quickly fired.

 

Scoscia is the longest tenured manager in baseball- he's been managing the Angels since 2000, and significantly predates Dipoto. So congrats on finding the one example in baseball history that happened under the most extreme circumstances that don't apply to us. You're red herring is awful tasty though!

[jokin]

 

Seriously, are they going to give us something on what they heck they are doing with Meyer? Is he on the DL....might as well be.

 

A serious question.... how many other potential ace/near ace arms are handled this way around the League? Very disappointing.

[David HK]

Please, please, please, let "TBD" on the Sunday MLB schedule be shorthand for the tall fellow...

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

Please, please, please, let "TBD" on the Sunday MLB schedule be shorthand for the tall fellow...

I almost DON'T WANT him to start Sunday because I am worried he'll be too rusty, will struggle, and then they will just have the excuse of "that is why they didn't use him in the first place." 

[David HK]

 

I almost DON'T WANT him to start Sunday because I am worried he'll be too rusty, will struggle, and then they will just have the excuse of "that is why they didn't use him in the first place." 

Yeh, exactly, because in typical Molly fashion, they bring a guy up and make him sit til he freakin' ossifies...

[Brock Beauchamp]

You guys are acting as if Meyer hasn't pitched since Spring Training. He last pitched on April 20th. In essence, he skipped one start.

 

Is that optimal? No. Is it a deal-breaker? No, it shouldn't be... If the Twins plan on starting him, I'm sure he'll get some BP sessions in before games and be ready to go on Sunday.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

You guys are acting as if Meyer hasn't pitched since Spring Training. He last pitched on April 20th. In essence, he skipped one start.

 

Is that optimal? No. Is it a deal-breaker? No, it shouldn't be... If the Twins plan on starting him, I'm sure he'll get some BP sessions in before games and be ready to go on Sunday.

Sure, but pretty dang odd all things considered, there not being any hint of what their plan is, recent use of other brought up prospects, him being tall and having repeatability issues, confidence issues, the reason he was brought up was depleted pen but was not used over other guys who had just pitched, and so on. Oh, and we have a bad record already, so what is the caution of the unknown all about? 

 

I think the transparency on this issue and overall disappointment with FO and Molitor with roster decisions this year are factored into this frustration. It isn't just this isolated handling of guys. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm not saying the Twins have handled Meyer well - I don't understand half the moves made over the past 2-3 weeks - but skipping one start shouldn't hurt Alex too much.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

I'm not saying the Twins have handled Meyer well - I don't understand half the moves made over the past 2-3 weeks - but skipping one start shouldn't hurt Alex too much.

Maybe, but my biggest worry is that IF he does get the start that it will be his last/only chance to prove himself. I fear that if he starts and falters that they will just automatically come to the decision he belongs in the pen (and maybe he does.) If he is only going to get one shot, I think he deserves it under better circumstances and opportunity to succeed. This does not seem like they are doing him any favors. 

 

Again, maybe none of this matters and he succeeds in any role they put him all year, and maybe the pen is the best spot for him. But, if they are really legitimately considering him as a starter...than they have an obligation to him and the team to develop him in the best way possible, which does not seem to be the case at hand here. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Well, that's been settled. Meyer to the rotation.

[bluechipper]

Everything is coming together in the rotation. Hopefully the three young guys (kinda young in Meyer's case) pitch well and force some decisions when Gibson and Santana are healthy.

[David HK]

Am I alone in respect to not being one to miss Gibby that much if he's dealt?