Article: He's Ba-ack!

[mikelink45]

Sorry, no excitement.  29 other teams were not interested in him as a manager so we bring him back.  TR is happy because he has accomplished two things:

• He brought back a former Twin
• He is building a screen from those crazy cybermetric guys and all their numbers and crazy ideas.

[Boom Boom]

I don't think this will hurt the club beyond what they're paying him and the predictable negative fan reaction.

 

I hope that if I ever get fired, and nobody wants to hire me, that my former employer will hook me up with a golden parachute.

[nokomismod]

Welcome back to one of the best Skips the Twins have had.

[Lefty]

TK didn't like young players either and that hasn't stopped Molitor from throwing them in there over the last year.  This won't hurt the Twins.

[Lefty]

 

As a Scout, he thought Danny Santana was going to be great. Scouting is part of his job now.....

 

If I remember right, Danny had a great year when Gardy was the skipper.

[DJL44]

Ron Gardenhire has probably forgotten more about baseball than I have ever learned. He is a good baseball coach and a fun guy to work with. He's probably even more fun when he's not the guy in charge. I'm sure the minor league affiliates will appreciate having another experienced guy to help them develop players. That is one of the things the Twins do best - develop players - and now they're adding more resources to that area

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

"It was clear at the time that it would be just a matter of time before Gardenhire rejoined the organization. He took 2015 off, and he was in the running for the manager jobs in Washington and San Diego. When San Diego offered him a job in their front office, and he declined, it was inevitable that it was just a matter of time before he would rejoin the Twins."

 

Seth I'm not sure I agree with this. In the press conference, Gardy was pretty firm in the idea that he would manage again. Gardy is a little too polarizing for this to be a great ambassadorial move. This only makes sense to me if Gardy approached the Twins first because he believes it will help him get another manager gig someday soon--there would be nothing wrong with that.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'm wondering where are all the folks who assured us if in the unlikely event that Gardy was fired, being so universally respected around the League... he'd be hired by somebody else in a New York minute.So now with this development it seems readily apparent, the only club in a 30 team organization that is MLB- that has any interest, is the one that fired him.

Well, your preparatory clauses need to be reworked....

 

I thought it was more likely than not that Gardy would have to be terminated than he would leave of his own volition, and I wouldn't assume he is universally respected (to say nothing of being so universally respected) but I did and do believe he will manage again. Because he said he would. I believe he was a signature away from being the Detroit manager and that whole fiasco. I believe he would be appealing to certain clubs and be successful. However, yes it raises questions at least to me if this is just a golden parachute gig, not that he'd be bad for us to have out in the field for a while. We shall see.

[PopRiveter]

Re: "Gardenhire hates young players"

 

This is so opposite of everything I observed while watching him as manager. One of the most common themes I remember from his tenure was his anxiousness to get young talent up and his seeming frustration that his GM wouldn't graduate the talent fast enough.  I recall him being vocally impatient to put Matt Garza, Alexi Casilla, Danny Valencia, Luke Hughes, Ben Revere, Danny Santana and Trevor Plouffe to work at the major league level. That's off the top of my head.

 

His success came on the backs of young talent. I always felt he was a bit impatient and overeager to send guys out there to sink or swim and that Smith and Ryan were the overprotective parent and it created a good counterbalance.

 

Do people get this idea because he was willing to criticize certain young players in the press? i.e. Cuddyer, Plouffe, Dozier

 

To me, he "picked on" guys who he knew could lead. This seemed like a way he raised the bar for players who he thought could rise to the challenge and become better. It worked with those three. All became more complete players on his guard. 

 

Never heard him "pick on" the goofier guys much (like Ford, Gomez) as it wasn't likely to have a positive impact.

[REPETE]

 

Re: "Gardenhire hates young players"

 

This is so opposite of everything I observed while watching him as manager. One of the most common themes I remember from his tenure was his anxiousness to get young talent up and his seeming frustration that his GM wouldn't graduate the talent fast enough.  I recall him being vocally impatient to put Matt Garza, Alexi Casilla, Danny Valencia, Luke Hughes, Ben Revere, Danny Santana and Trevor Plouffe to work at the major league level. That's off the top of my head.

 

His success came on the backs of young talent. I always felt he was a bit impatient and overeager to send guys out there to sink or swim and that Smith and Ryan were the overprotective parent and it created a good counterbalance.

 

Do people get this idea because he was willing to criticize certain young players in the press? i.e. Cuddyer, Plouffe, Dozier

 

To me, he "picked on" guys who he knew could lead. This seemed like a way he raised the bar for players who he thought could rise to the challenge and become better. It worked with those three. All became more complete players on his guard. 

 

Never heard him "pick on" the goofier guys much (like Ford, Gomez) as it wasn't likely to have a positive impact.

From my observations of Gardy (full disclosure, I did NOT like him at all), he was fine with young players, as long as they "played the game the right way", and if he "liked how they went about their business",  He liked the Rocky type players, "ham and eggers".  He could appeal to them, as that's what he was.  

 

Where Gardy fell short was dealing with the cocky, young, "showboat" type players.  Go-Go was the perfect example (although the argument could/should be made he should have been in AAA), but he completely mishandled Hicks, too.  He had Hicks wound up in knots.  

I think he'll be fine as a roving instructor, as long as they don't keep him on one guy too long.  Id have hated to see him roving in the minors when Sano got into all the hoopla over a bat flip. 

[PopRiveter]

I'd say Hicks had himself in knots, but, fair enough. Thanks for a thoughtful response. 

 

 

[jctwins]

Being back on the road will also help Gardy get back to his old ways of gaining five pounds a year. I wonder if he took any of his time off to get a little bit healthier than he was in 2014.

[Seth Stohs]

 

As a Scout, he thought Danny Santana was going to be great. Scouting is part of his job now......

 

Molitor is the one who thought Santana was going to be great. AND, who kept playing him.

 

 

[Willihammer]

 

I'm wondering where are all the folks who assured us if in the unlikely event that Gardy was fired, being so universally respected around the League... he'd be hired by somebody else in a New York minute.

So now with this development it seems readily apparent, the only club in a 30 team organization that is MLB- that has any interest, is the one that fired him.

FWIW in the interview aired on KTWN yesterday Gardy said he received offers from other teams for positions before accepting the Twins' position.

[Seth Stohs]

I guess I'm amazed by this response.

 

First, he was a good manager and has given 25+ years to the organization. He worked hard and had a lot of success.

 

Second, what do people think he's going to be doing? Do people really think he's lining himself up to be the next GM, because he has no interest in that. It's a title. The same title that TK has. 

 

Third, he is a coach, a teacher. I've had quite a few people tell me that he's been down in Ft. Myers the last week to ten days working with the Extended Spring Training group and he's really good. He's been helpful to players and coaches.

 

Fourth, like many others in the minors (coaches and others), he'll file some reports and send them to people like Brad Steil and Terry Ryan and Paul Molitor and others. He isn't making decisions on them, just adding some thoughts and opinions on what the needed to work on and maybe how ready they are to move up. 

 

Fifth, who cares if he likes SABRmetrics? There are plenty of styles that can and will and have win/won in baseball and that will continue. Also, from what I'm told, he wasn't as anti-stats as people think. 

 

Sixth, Terry Ryan said yesterday that Gardy is signed through the end of the year (12/31), but that if he gets any inquiries from teams before then to manage, he will absolutely let him do it. So, the managing thing isn't out of the picture yet. 

[Deduno Abides]

Mixed thoughts. On the pro side, Gardy is one of the winningest managers alive and probably one of the youngest with more than 1,000 wins. Although I thought he should have been let go a couple of years earlier, he still knows a tremendous amount of baseball and about how to teach baseball. He may have become more curmudgeonly as the years went on, but nobody has ever said that was a reason not to let TK near the young players and he won't be with anyone for an extended period (unless he and the team think it's useful), so that's not a reason to be against his hiring. He can really add a ton of value in player development. He's not going to be deciding batting orders or fielding positions; he's going to work with people to understand how to play between the foul lines.

 

 

However, his hiring could feel odd to Paul Molitor. Think about it. If you take a new job, replacing an old friend of your boss, and your boss suggests that the friend's departure was difficult and likely for reasons other than performance, and the old guy says he wants the same kind job again, and your recent record is below expectations, you'd be nervous when they hire the old friend back. Now maybe that's not as big a deal in this situation- Molitor probably thinks he'll also get one of these Celebrity Rover jobs after he's done as manager - but in normal environments it would be a concern.

 

 

My biggest worry is that, for whatever reason, later in the year, TR decides to replace Molitor and reasons that, since it would be an interim position and it would be wrong to appoint a coach and it could be difficult to bring up Dougie M. in the middle of the season, the easiest thing to do would be to appoint his old friend, Ron Gardenhire. Player development? Great. Manage again? Please no.

[John Bonnes]

I'm with Seth. I was baffled by the reaction on Twitter and here; more so on Twitter. As I get older, I get more frustrated with our willingness to distort objective analysis for entertainment. It feels like that is the case here. A quick snarky Gardy joke is top of mind and easy to make, so resort to tweeting it and retweeting it and praising it. But it's ... um ... let's call it "self-pleasuring" - we do it because it feels good, not because it's productive.

 

Ron Gardenhire is the winningest manager in Twins history, and if you think he's a bum, you might want to re-examine if any manager of a team you cared for has ever not been a bum. He finished in the top three in AL Manager of the Year approximately half a dozen times, which is essentially an award based on how a team overperforms expectations nationally. He built his success ON turning young players into contenders; nobody expected a team of Mientkiewicz, Koskie, Pierzynski, Guzman, Jones and Hunter to have anywhere near the run they had. And he oversaw it for an enormous stretch - far longer than, say, Joe Maddon made the Rays a winning team.

 

Also, just so we're clear - he essentially resigned. The story from all accounts, is that Ryan told Gardenhire they could not offer him an extension for 2016 and Gardy said that he thought maybe the organization should make a change, and so Ryan agreed. The "fired" part is true only because Ryan continued to pay him through 2015, which he would not have needed to do if Gardy "resigned," but this was a parting of the ways.

 

So why are we puzzled - and even more crazy, concerned -  that Gardy is back in the organization? This reaction is, IMHO, insane. Of course you want a lifetime baseball guy, who spent close to 30 years with the team and is the winningest manager in Twins history, back with the team. You would be crazy not to.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm fine with it, seems like a good position for him.  It's just a bit hard to get excited about these things when the Neil Allens of the world are the exception.  This team just gets too comfortable for my liking and this move is extremely comfortable.

 

It's fine, I'm sure he'll do well, it'd just be nice to get out of our comfort zone a bit more often.

[dgwills]

Glad to have him back. He knows baseball and has a ton of credibility. I'm sure young players will love working with him. 

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

So why are we puzzled - and even more crazy, concerned -  that Gardy is back in the organization? This reaction is, IMHO, insane.

 

Let me count the ways:

 

- The Twins finally showed that they can hold someone accountable for a team that went 99+96+96+92, by firing him.   However, they did not fire him apparently, they just gave him a year of a paid sabbatical before they welcomed him back.  (It was all Jerry's and Stelly's and Bobby's fault...)

- The Twins have won a single post-season series since November of 1991, even though in several occasions (like the season they had both the MVP and the CY winner) were the favorites, and the number one reason for this, this millennium, was Ron Gardenhire.

- Gardenhire's attitude for a while was that of accepting losing, tossing his arms over the dugout railing and practically allowing his team to quit on him.   Not something you want to install in the minor leaguers or something that you want to allow to propagate in the organization

- Gardenhire was the master of favoritism of his buddies and of alienation of players he did not like (most of them college educated and smart).  Not something you want to propagate in the organization or reward.

- Proven clueless about player evaluation, hating on Garza/Lohse/Gomez/Hardy.  On the record about wanting more speed and Nishioka over Hardy and nothing to do with Gomez.  On the record about the "proven closer" situation.

- Inability to communicate with Latinos.  Multiple quotes of the kind "I don't know what he is talking about"; and feeling proud of it, like the 22 year old kid should be the one that bears the burden of learning English.

- this team is way inbred.  They need some new outside thinking sooner than later, otherwise they will perish. Hiring Gardy is the epitome of inbredness

 

....

Edited April 20, 2016 by Thrylos

[DocBauer]

I'm happy to have him back in the organization. And I agree with all the sentiments brought up by Seth and John.

 

Gardenhire, as stated, was a tough, gritty, self-made ballplayer who worked his way to the ML level. This something, percentage wise, that is still rare to do and should be respected. He was a highly successful and welL regarded milb manager who worked under the trumpeted and esteemed Tom Kelly and was part of the last Twins WS team. He is the winning-est manager in Twins history. But because he himself didn't manage a team to a WS win he was a poor manager? And because his last few teams were poor it's all on him?

 

Last I knew, the was still a team game. Last I knew, only one team ever finished the season in any sport as the champion. So this highly successful milb manager and ML coach and manager, recognized by independent parties as a manager of year and multiple runner up is back with the organization to provide scouting, coaching and experience to the organization. I don't know...I see nothing but good from this.

[Thrylos]

 

 He is the winning-est manager in Twins history.

 

Not sure where the hey that myth came about, but he is not.  Kelly won 1,140 games, Gardenhire 1,068. 

 

Billy Martin ended up with 1,253 (of course not all Twins) and Bucky Harris (Senators) with 2,158.

 

Any way you count it, he was not that

Edited April 20, 2016 by Thrylos

[Rosterman]

Gardy was still considered a consultant special assistant in some ways last year (he was getting paid his full salary...and though he didn't have to do anything, I think he did). 

 

It keeps him active, in the picture. If nothing else, he gets to work with other coaches for the Twins Way. Remember, a manager is not just managing what's on the field, he;s managing how the players play as a group and how to get everyone working in the same direction.

 

It's NICE that the Twins do have a wealth of guys that still help out the club, so to speak, from Oliva and Carew to Hrbek and at times Smalley, Laudner and more. It was good to see Hawkins and Hunter at spring training.  

 

There's a whole bunch of former Twins working for other systems in the minors: Gary Ward (White Sox), Jose Parra (Tigers), Steve Luebber/Andre David/Brian Buchanan/Nelson Liriano (Royals), Howie Clark (Orioles), Paul Abbott/Dick Such (Red Sox), Bobby Mitchell/Greg Colbrunn (Yankees), Vince Horsman/Juan Rincon (Blue Jays), Erik Bennett (Angels), John Moses (Braves), Luis Quioines (Miami), Frank Viola/Wally Backman (Mets), Aaron Fultz/Les Straker/Pat Borders (Phillies), Matt LeCroy (Nationals), Tack Wilson/Phil Nevin (Diamondbacks), Bobby Cuellar (Dodgers), Brian Harper (Cubs), Corky Miller (Reds), Butch Wynegar/Michael Ryan (Pirates), Randy Niemann (Cardinals).

 

But Gardy is a part of Twins history. Like Kelly, he does have something to offer the team.

 

 

 

[jctwins]

 

Let me count the ways:

 

- The Twins finally showed that they can hold someone accountable for a team that went 99+96+96+92, by firing him.   However, they did not fire him apparently, they just gave him a year of a paid sabbatical before they welcomed him back.  (It was all Jerry's and Stelly's and Bobby's fault...)

- The Twins have won a single post-season series since November of 1991, even though in several occasions (like the season they had both the MVP and the CY winner) were the favorites, and the number one reason for this, this millennium, was Ron Gardenhire.

- Gardenhire's attitude for a while was that of accepting losing, tossing his arms over the dugout railing and practically allowing his team to quit on him.   Not something you want to install in the minor leaguers or something that you want to allow to propagate in the organization

- Gardenhire was the master of favoritism of his buddies and of alienation of players he did not like (most of them college educated and smart).  Not something you want to propagate in the organization or reward.

- Proven clueless about player evaluation, hating on Garza/Lohse/Gomez/Hardy.  On the record about wanting more speed and Nishioka over Hardy and nothing to do with Gomez.  On the record about the "proven closer" situation.

- Inability to communicate with Latinos.  Multiple quotes of the kind "I don't know what he is talking about"; and feeling proud of it, like the 22 year old kid should be the one that bears the burden of learning English.

- this team is way inbred.  They need some new outside thinking sooner than later, otherwise they will perish. Hiring Gardy is the epitome of inbredness

 

....

 

THIS THIS THIS.

 

 

 

Quoting this so that anyone that didn't get it the first time can get another chance. I just wish I would have posted it myself.

 

 

 

 

[Seth Stohs]

A good article and video interview with Gardenhire on his role and more: 

 

http://www.news-press.com/videos/sports/2016/04/19/83266854/

 

[Mike Sixel]

Molitor is the one who thought Santana was going to be great. AND, who kept playing him.

In the other thread on this topic, there is a quote from Gardy saying he thought Danny was going to be great. It is in the other thread, if you want to see it.

[Seth Stohs]

 

In the other thread on this topic, there is a quote from Gardy saying he thought Danny was going to be great. It is in the other thread, if you want to see it.

 

Nah... and that's fine. Got me... but Santana is a guy who most people in baseball saw great things from. It's why the Twins wouldn't dare DFA Santana.