Bryce Harper on Unwritten Rules, Changing the Culture of Baseball

[Vanimal46]

Bryce Harper is going to have a detailed piece written in ESPN the Magazine, and the article is online now. He goes in-depth about the unwritten rules of baseball, how baseball is a "tired sport", and needs more self-expression from ball players. I'm still in the middle of reading it, but so far it's a good read.

Here's the link. 

[Blake]

Cool, once we get more self-expression we can also look forward to "Excessive Celebration" rules.

 

Now I'll read the article and see if the article supports my conclusion.

 

Now that I've read the article, I didn't like the article, thought it was a lousy read and does a disservice to baseball.

 

Considering the bad press regarding Puig, I'm not sure he should be held up as an example of fun. That's just one of many things I didn't care for.

[gunnarthor]

Jason Turbow has a really nice take on this.  Turbow wrote one of the most fun baseball books I've ever read, "The Baseball Codes," it's a great read on the history of the unwritten rules and his website is constantly updating on issues pertaining to the codes.

 

http://thebaseballcodes.com/2016/03/10/bryce-harper-hates-baseballs-unwritten-rules-like-it-or-not-hes-also-their-standard-bearer/

 

"There are strong feelings on both sides of the divide—traditionalists who want no part of emotion on the diamond, and those who decry the Code as ancient hokum, unfit for the modern game.

As is usually the case, the truth lies someplace in between. Celebrations are here to stay, but disrespect is as reviled now as it’s ever been. Trouble is, it’s sometimes difficult to distinguish between the two, which is where much of the problem lies.

Baseball is an ever-changing game, as are its unwritten rules. The sport is still feeling its way through this, but with guys like Harper and Fernandez at the helm, it should all work out just fine."

[Blake]

 

Jason Turbow has a really nice take on this.  Turbow wrote one of the most fun baseball books I've ever read, "The Baseball Codes," it's a great read on the history of the unwritten rules and his website is constantly updating on issues pertaining to the codes.

 

http://thebaseballcodes.com/2016/03/10/bryce-harper-hates-baseballs-unwritten-rules-like-it-or-not-hes-also-their-standard-bearer/

 

"There are strong feelings on both sides of the divide—traditionalists who want no part of emotion on the diamond, and those who decry the Code as ancient hokum, unfit for the modern game.

As is usually the case, the truth lies someplace in between. Celebrations are here to stay, but disrespect is as reviled now as it’s ever been. Trouble is, it’s sometimes difficult to distinguish between the two, which is where much of the problem lies.

Baseball is an ever-changing game, as are its unwritten rules. The sport is still feeling its way through this, but with guys like Harper and Fernandez at the helm, it should all work out just fine."

I think it would be fairer to say that "With people like Mike Redmond to guide them.."

 

I thought it interesting that Jose Fernandez was pulled aside by Redmond and set straight and that's when his attitude changed.

 

Sounds like Mr. Harper could use a bit of the same.

[markos]

 

Celebrations are here to stay, but disrespect is as reviled now as it’s ever been. Trouble is, it’s sometimes difficult to distinguish between the two, which is where much of the problem lies.

This quote really helps provide a framework for me: celebration=good, disrespect=bad, distinguishing between the two=hard.

 

It is going to be very interesting to see how MLB handles this change - which is definitely happening. For the most part they have been hands-off regarding discipline of any excessive celebration or disrespectful behavior that goes on between teams/players that break the unwritten rules (they have instead trusted the players to police themselves) and haven't really done to much to define the celebration/disrespect dividing line. I wonder if player celebrations get too excessive, distracting or disrespectful that MLB will need to step in and make the unwritten rules written rules, much like the NBA and NFL. Those leagues have rules against specific behavior and have empowered the officials to call penalties/fouls when the players break them. I suspect the MLB will do something similar and attempt to define a line in that gray area between celebration/fun and taunting/disrespect.

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

I suspect the MLB will do something similar and attempt to define a line in that gray area between celebration/fun and taunting/disrespect.

I also suspect they will, but hope they don't. 

[Vanimal46]

 

This quote really helps provide a framework for me: celebration=good, disrespect=bad, distinguishing between the two=hard.

 

It is going to be very interesting to see how MLB handles this change - which is definitely happening. For the most part they have been hands-off regarding discipline of any excessive celebration or disrespectful behavior that goes on between teams/players that break the unwritten rules (they have instead trusted the players to police themselves) and haven't really done to much to define the celebration/disrespect dividing line. I wonder if player celebrations get too excessive, distracting or disrespectful that MLB will need to step in and make the unwritten rules written rules, much like the NBA and NFL. Those leagues have rules against specific behavior and have empowered the officials to call penalties/fouls when the players break them. I suspect the MLB will do something similar and attempt to define a line in that gray area between celebration/fun and taunting/disrespect.

The MLB can't have it both ways though... They've promoted big time celebrations, bat flips, fist pumps, etc. on their social media feeds to get the conversations going about baseball. At the same time, they can't penalize players for celebrating. 

[TheLeviathan]

Outright disrespect shouldn't be tolerated any more in baseball than it is other places.  If a player does something deliberately to hurt another player, they should be penalized.  

 

But good for Harper to point out how much of this stuff is just about some guys being too easily butthurt about getting beat.  You don't like that the guy fist-pumped during their trot?  Don't give up the homerun. Let guys play with a personality and have fun.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I wonder if player celebrations get too excessive, distracting or disrespectful that MLB will need to step in and make the unwritten rules written rules, much like the NBA and NFL. Those leagues have rules against specific behavior and have empowered the officials to call penalties/fouls when the players break them. 

 

This is a good post, but I would say that there is still plenty of celebrating, fist pumping, and chest thumping in the NBA and the NFL.  What both leagues have cut down on is the degree to which it happens in certain situations.

 

In contrast, baseball allows nearly none of that to happen without retribution.  The only time it appears to be allowed via the unwritten rules is walk-off celebrations.  Everything else is frowned upon by threat of a baseball in the teeth.  So there is room for the league to go further towards the two leagues you just listed too.

[Mike Sixel]

I was sorely disappointed that Park won't be flipping his bat, that's fun to see after a home run. It's entertainment, not treaty negotiations. 

 

I'm on Harper's side all the way (and I'm hardly a young punk). 

 

In the immortal words of Sgt. Hulka, "lighten up Francis".

[Mike Sixel]

 

The MLB can't have it both ways though... They've promoted big time celebrations, bat flips, fist pumps, etc. on their social media feeds to get the conversations going about baseball. At the same time, they can't penalize players for celebrating. 

 

Sure they can, and they will. Just like the NFL shows violent hits over and over, and fines players when they do it.

[USAFChief]

I think baseball has always had room for honest emotion.  Carlton Fisk looking down the left field line and urging his drive to stay fair.  Kirby pumping his fist in game 6 between first and second.  Baseball players have had no problem with honest emotion, celebrating success.

 

What has been frowned on throughout most of baseball history has been "look at ME" actions, which are often premeditated and never about celebrating success.

 

I for one, hope MLB stays away from that sort of thing.  Let the NFL have the prima donnas running out to the 50 yard line with a sharpie, and choreographed dances after touchdowns, which are, IMO, the football equivalent to bat flips and 2 minute HR jogs.

 

I hope MLB stays classier than that.

[Thrylos]

love this part of the article:

 

 

 

"Endorsements, fashion -- it's something baseball doesn't see," he says. "In soccer, it's Beckham or Ronaldo. In basketball, it's Curry and LeBron. In football, it's Cam. Football and basketball have such good fashion."

 

LeBron aside in his prime and Beckham aside in his prime, he got the names wrong in the endorsements.  I cannot count in how many commercials Payton Manning, and what's his face Green Bay QB guy, and Montana and Marino before them appeared compared to Cam Newton.  And as bar as basketball goes, Jordan still selling stuff.

 

Baseball is a local sport and has local endorsements.  Maybe not where he grew up.  Mauer has been selling everything in the Twin Cities.   And some guys like Jeter (and even Palmer, do you remember the underwear commercials?) go nationals.

 

As for his sense of "fashion", no thank you, if those guys are his prototypes.

 

As for "fun" I am all about it, especially if you allow home opposing fans to bring in velzevulas vuvuzelas and blow them while he is at the plate trying to concentrate.   Let the fans have some fun.  At his expense...

[TheLeviathan]

If you want it to be that way, shouldn't we write rules to that effect then? If baseball wants to insist on that "classy" model, then enforce it fairly and at an impartial level. Write actual rules - black and white, no butt hurt emotions.

 

Right now your so-called "classier" system throws fastballs at faces so that someone doesn't celebrate their accomplishment. That doesn't really compute with classy.

[jimmer]

 

If you want it to be that way, shouldn't we write rules to that effect then? If baseball wants to insist on that "classy" model, then enforce it fairly and at an impartial level. Write actual rules - black and white, no butt hurt emotions.

Right now your so-called "classier" system throws fastballs at faces so that someone doesn't celebrate their accomplishment. That doesn't really compute with classy.

nor does starting a fight on the field

 

or choking a teammate :-)

[spinowner]

 

I think baseball has always had room for honest emotion.  Carlton Fisk looking down the left field line and urging his drive to stay fair.  Kirby pumping his fist in game 6 between first and second.  Baseball players have had no problem with honest emotion, celebrating success.

 

What has been frowned on throughout most of baseball history has been "look at ME" actions, which are often premeditated and never about celebrating success.

 

I for one, hope MLB stays away from that sort of thing.  Let the NFL have the prima donnas running out to the 50 yard line with a sharpie, and choreographed dances after touchdowns, which are, IMO, the football equivalent to bat flips and 2 minute HR jogs.

 

I hope MLB stays classier than that.

Where baseball has historically drawn the line is not only when the celebration is "look at ME" but especially when the celebration is "look at ME, I beat YOU". Neither Fisk's nor Puckett's celebrations had that component. On the other hand, bat flips have always been viewed in MLB as showing up the pitcher, and I think there's a lot of validity to that point of view.

 

[Thrylos]

 

nor does starting a fight on the field

 

or choking a teammate :-)

 

How does throwing a teammate under the bus in the media fit in that spectrum?

 

Or the Lombardozzi/Gladden thing?  Or the Hunter/Morneau/Punto thing?

 

Papelbon did last year to Harper what Hunter tried to do years ago to Morneau and Punto got it.  If you don't like Papelbon about it, you should not like Hunter about it either...

[jimmer]

 

How does throwing a teammate under the bus in the media fit in that spectrum?

 

Or the Lombardozzi/Gladden thing?  Or the Hunter/Morneau/Punto thing?

Should he have lied? Or said no comment(where people would have figured what he meant anyway),.

 

I found nothing wrong with him saying he didn't like what Papelbon did because first, it's ridiculous to think it's okay for a pitcher to throw 90+ at a defenseless batter from so close because he's butthurt from getting beaten on a pitch. Second, because teammates of the pitcher usually wind up getting hit in retribution.

[Thrylos]

 

Should he have lied? Or said no comment(where people would have figured what he meant anyway),.

 

I found nothing wrong with him saying he didn't like what Papelbon did because first, it's ridiculous to think it's okay for a pitcher to throw 90+ at a defenseless batter from so close because he's butthurt from getting beaten on a pitch. Second, because teammates of the pitcher usually wind up getting hit in retribution.

 

I am talking about the fight in the dugout...

[jimmer]

 

I am talking about the fight in the dugout...

Just to make sure I get what you're saying.  Are you asking how I felt about Harper talking about Papelbon choking him to the media?

[Thrylos]

 

Just to make sure I get what you're saying.  Are you asking how I felt about Harper talking about Papelbon choking him to the media?

 

What I am saying is that what Papelbon did to Harper is not that much different than what Hunter tried to do to Morneau (and failed and hit Punto).  So if one is critical about Papelbon, they better be critical about Hunter...

[jimmer]

 

What I am saying is that what Papelbon did to Harper is not that much different than what Hunter tried to do to Morneau (and failed and hit Punto).  So if one is critical about Papelbon, they better be critical about Hunter...

Okay by me.  But I wouldn't want to limit it to just those.  Teammates who start fights with other teammates, especially for all to see,  is just horrible form.  I couldn't respect anyone as a leader who did that.  Grown ups should know better than to result to that.  And before people say these guys play a kids game and it's therefore okay, yeah, sorry, I just cant agree with that.  They already have enough privileges before saying assault is okay too.

[gunnarthor]

One thing that we seem to forget or under acknowledge is that actions in a baseball dugout/locker room/field etc are a lot different then where we work.  The things that might make someone considered a good leader, for instance, might not be the same elements that would work in a law office or restaurant.  The "unwritten rules" are simply part of the game that players use to make the work place work, for them.  It's created by the players and changed by the players.  Arguing that "butt hurt" players should act better is about as pointless as saying people on the internet should be more civil.  Yeah, they should.  It's not going to happen.

 

I really do recommend Turbow's book. It's funny but it also shows how the rules - including retaliation and celebration - have changed dramatically over the years. 

[TheLeviathan]

  It's created by the players and changed by the players.  Arguing that "butt hurt" players should act better is about as pointless as saying people on the internet should be more civil.  Yeah, they should.  It's not going to happen.

 

That's a sad moral outlook.

[Pardon My Dinger]

I sort of think Gossage's comments from yesterday are pretty sweet as well. One think I always liked about older generations of baseball and hockey is the way that players, in a way, really governed themselves. Honoring an unwritten code of respect is not some brutal, archaic practice. Everywhere you go in life, everything you do--you pay your dues. 

 

Having said that, I tend to agree with Harper's sentiments, particularly as a Twins fan. This has long been an extremely boring franchise. But, I think that it has more to do with the corporate culture/demeanor that ball players (and, really, all players in all pro sports nowadays) are compelled to exhibit. I'd like to see these guys be real guys, with real emotion, passion and opinions. 

 

I like Harper's sincerity. I like to see a guy like Gossage fly off the handle for the sake of his convictions. I also like Cespedes' rebuttal ("He's a pitcher, right?"). It sort of seems like everybody wants the same thing. This old guard versus young hotshots is a tired old story, and it's probably just a thing for people to write about.

[Vanimal46]

Goose Gossage is a irritable old man who needs to stay away from microphones... He certainly did his best to offend the Latino community by throwing Cespedes and Bautista under the bus. His comment about "nerds ruining the game" - maybe he should check into the backgrounds of the best GMs in the game, including the guy that's writing his checks... I could rip into more of his quotes, but at the end of the day, it's just an old man trying to put his era of baseball on a pedestal compared to these young whipper snappers today, so nothing new to see here.   

[Craig Arko]

 

Goose Gossage is a irritable old man who needs to stay away from microphones... He certainly did his best to offend the Latino community by throwing Cespedes and Bautista under the bus. His comment about "nerds ruining the game" - maybe he should check into the backgrounds of the best GMs in the game, including the guy that's writing his checks... I could rip into more of his quotes, but at the end of the day, it's just an old man trying to put his era of baseball on a pedestal compared to these young whipper snappers today, so nothing new to see here.   

"Get off my outfield lawn!" Sounds like Chief.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I sort of think Gossage's comments from yesterday are pretty sweet as well. One think I always liked about older generations of baseball and hockey is the way that players, in a way, really governed themselves. 

 

If their system of government worked, we'd have seen an end to all those practices years ago.

[USAFChief]

 

If their system of government worked, we'd have seen an end to all those practices years ago.

those practices would end if Bryce Harpers didn't come along every generation.

[Shaitan]

 

This is a good post, but I would say that there is still plenty of celebrating, fist pumping, and chest thumping in the NBA and the NFL.  What both leagues have cut down on is the degree to which it happens in certain situations.

 

This is off topic but I'd strongly disagree that the NBA and NFL have reduced this. It's getting to the point to me where the NFL is getting unwatchable because they'd rather show some sack dance than the actual sack.

 

And usually on an inconsequential 1st down play anyway.