Article: How Does Carlos Quentin Fit In?

[Vanimal46]

Yup. How quickly we forget about past low risk signings where guys would have to make the team.

 

Bartlett went 4 for 43 in spring training with 9 k’s and 0 XBH. A .245 OPS.

 

Kubel went 9 for 46, 17 K’s and an OPS of .571. Then got another 150 AB’s with the Twins with an OPS of .607.

If Quentin, Mastroianni, and Benson come even close to the number of PA that Bartlett and Kubel had this spring, it will be a total buzz kill.

[Boom Boom]

It's like TR taking one spin on the penny slots.

 

Of course, this particular slot machine pays out in stuff he already has in abundance.

[Kwak]

 

To be fair, Bartlett and Kubel inexplicably got opt outs around March 30. Quentin's June 1st opt out suggests there is some understanding that Quentin will need minor league time.

"...that Quentin will need minor league time."  For what? Instead of who--the real prospects that the Twins have (Kepler, ABW, Buxton, and many other names included in the OF "prospect" thread.  Are these the guys that sit so Quentin "can play"?  If Quentin needs "time"--let him play for the Saints.

[DSMTwinsFan]

 

Granted, this is a no-risk, high-reward scenario for the Twins, I really see no way it works out. He was an OK player on a pretty rapid demise due to constant injuries and age. And now he's older and a year+ removed from the game.

 

However, I'm guessing he makes the team - it's such a TR thing to do.

 

Then it comes down to what do we as fans want to see more. A) A Kubel-like performance that's so sad and pathetic that the experiment is short-lived and we'll all easily forget that it happened, or He gets hot to start the season and takes away playing time from a Kepler, Buxton or Vargas, or even worse they lose someone like Arcia or Santana because of it.

 

I'm honestly rooting for the former ... after I root even harder for absolute spring training failure.

 

If Sano weren't patrolling third instead of the OF, I might feel differently about Carlos making the team. But you can only have so many bat-only guys on the roster when you're dealing with a limited bench.

 

They've preached patience and waiting for the prospects for many years now. And we've done that ... now it's time for them to see which of those prospects were worth waiting for.

 

I see this as a no risk, no reward scenario. No risk for the reasons you mentioned. No reward because even if he starts hot, Ryan/Molitor will stick with him way too long once he starts playing poorly.

[lukeduke1980]

I get that this is a low risk scenario - but is Quentin 'in great shape'?  His knees are fully rested and he's mashing the ball in Mexico?  Or he's not sure if he can still play and Spring Training will be his test.

[tobi0040]

 

I see this as a no risk, no reward scenario. No risk for the reasons you mentioned. No reward because even if he starts hot, Ryan/Molitor will stick with him way too long once he starts playing poorly.

 

Prior to turning 25, Quintin had the following line:

.228/.317/.424/.741.  14 HR in 441 PA.  wRC+ of 84.

 

Prior to turning 25, Arcia had the following line:

.243/.305/.437/.741.  36 HR in 850 PA.  wRC+105.

 

I think Arcia could develop a little better eye at the plate and he has tons of room to improve against lefties.  If he did those things, there is no reason why he could not have the same career as Quentin (830 OPS) and DH for the Twins for quite some time.

 

The irony is that we are signing Carlos because of the career he has had, but could lose someone who could have the same career.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Prior to turning 25, Quintin had the following line:

.228/.317/.424/.741.  14 HR in 441 PA.  wRC+ of 84.

 

Prior to turning 25, Arcia had the following line:

.243/.305/.437/.741.  36 HR in 850 PA.  wRC+105.

 

I think Arcia could develop a little better eye at the plate and he has tons of room to improve against lefties.  If he did those things, there is no reason why he could not have the same career as Quentin (830 OPS) and DH for the Twins for quite some time.

 

The irony is that we are signing Carlos because of the career he has had, but could lose someone who could have the same career.

 

so much this......

[Otto von Ballpark]

"...that Quentin will need minor league time." For what? Instead of who--the real prospects that the Twins have (Kepler, ABW, Buxton, and many other names included in the OF "prospect" thread. Are these the guys that sit so Quentin "can play"? If Quentin needs "time"--let him play for the Saints.

I doubt the Twins have that many notable prospects for those positions at that level in 2016. Buxton in CF, Walker in RF, Kepler in LF, Vargas at 1B, still leaves DH open, no? And if/when Buxton is promoted, Kepler can slide to CF and that opens another corner spot. Not to mention Kepler's chances at MLB himself, or Vargas's chances of being traded.

 

And that June 1st opt out date suggests spring training is not the decision point, so he shouldn't take an excess of opportunities there either.

Edited February 3, 2016 by spycake

[ScrapTheNickname]

Nick, do you know anything more definite about the condition of his knees? He has had multiple surgeries and was forced to retire because of them. I would think the Twins did their due diligence (as they say) on this subject. What can we expect?

[Nick Nelson]

 

Nick, do you know anything more definite about the condition of his knees? He has had multiple surgeries and was forced to retire because of them. I would think the Twins did their due diligence (as they say) on this subject. What can we expect?

The Twins watched him work out last month, so they must have been satisfied with what they saw. Perhaps the extended rest has rejuvenated those balky knees.

 

But when you combine those injuries with his age and his already suspect OF defense, it's tough to see how he really fits anywhere other than DH. That's why I'm hypothesizing about him as a backup option behind Park. 

[Circus Boy]

He twice led the league in HBPs. So he's got that going for him.

[Mike Sixel]

 

He twice led the league in HBPs. So he's got that going for him.

 

Maybe they really want a new veteran clubhouse guy, since Plouffe, Mauer, and Dozier apparently can't do that......or maybe they want him to teach Sano how to get hit.

[Cris E]

Perhaps he's the missing veteran for the bullpen. If he hasn't pitched since he was 12 he'll need some time to get the arm in shape.

[HitInAPinch]

Quentin decided to make a comeback in November and didn't get signed until February. 

His agent shopped him around and it wasn't until the Twins picked up the phone did he get an invite.  It was a generous thing for the Twins to do.  I wouldn't read anything else into this.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Quentin decided to make a comeback in November and didn't get signed until February.

His agent shopped him around and it wasn't until the Twins picked up the phone did he get an invite. It was a generous thing for the Twins to do. I wouldn't read anything else into this.

Yeah. And the June 1st opt out sort of confirms there wasn't any undeserved promise made to him (yet).

 

I am far more worried about earlier minor league signings Abad and Kintzler, who probably have the inside track to opening day roster spots. (Not sure if they have opt outs, though?)

Edited February 4, 2016 by spycake

[Jham]

I don't remember Quentin being that good in his prime.  I thought of his as a bat first possible PED guy whose body would break down and whose game would fall off as soon as his bat speed dropped a half a mm.  I'm much more concerned with Sano living up to huge expectations while shifting positions.  

[The Wise One]

There are people who seem to think that a minor league signing means going to be on the major league roster

 

Quentin, Mastro, Sweeney, Abad, Boshers, Kinzler,  and one time September call up Benson all signed minor league contracts with invites. Sorry, not with the out of option players Santana, Arcia, and Tonkin will there be much culled from the heap. The reliever who pitches the best and the person who can hit if Arcia or Park can't  from the non roster invitees may make the squad.

[Mike Sixel]

There are people who seem to think the team should go with guys in their 20s, who might have upside, rather than 34 year olds who haven't been healthy for 18 months.

[DaveW]

My issue is: if you want to take a chance on a once solid, but now 2-3 years removed player, why not make it Cliff Lee?

[tobi0040]

 

My issue is: if you want to take a chance on a once solid, but now 2-3 years removed player, why not make it Cliff Lee?

 

Good call. 

 

I am just hoping Terry really likes Quintin on a personal level and Carlos called him one day, said his wife was nagging him and he would appreciate an excuse to get out of the house for a few months.

[laloesch]

 

I usually don't HATE MiLB signings, but I hate this move.  It tells me Twins management is still scared to just let their youth take over.  The odds are slim Quentin sees time with the Twins.  However, he will take needed ST at-bats away from other players that will have meaningful time with the Twins at some point.  I would much rather see Arcia, Kepler and Buxton get a combined 50 more at-bats than give them to Quentin.

 

 

Agreed.    I hate this move, absolutely HATE it.  Even if it's only a minor league signing with invite to ST this still means that he will be taking valuable playing time away from the prospects because he's a WISE AND WEATHERED veteran who happens to suck.  I mean come on Terry!  We have Kepler, Walker, Arcia, Buxton, all of whom have more talent and potential than this has been.  Enough of the dumpster diving this is just stupid IMO.

Edited February 4, 2016 by laloesch

[Kwak]

I hearing the choir in chorus!

[Don Walcott]

I truly admire the passion of the fans on this site.  However, the fact that this much is being said about a pretty much irrelevant signing Carlos Quentin to a minor league contract is a very sad commentary on how little the Twins have done to improve this team over the off-season.

[gocgo]

A couple of notes - first, I've read posts saying that CQ is a low risk, high reward signing.  Dunno that I'd call CQ high reward.  His best year from the plate was 2008 - .288/.394/.985.  Career line of .252/.347/.831.  IF...and it's a big if...he can hit his career average, it's a decent signing.  Recent stats would indicate those expectations are unrealistic.

 

Second, I've read that CQ is an insurance policy in case Park struggles.  If he's an insurance policy, I've got some great universal coverage policies to peddle to the Twins.

 

Third, I've read the CQ was signed to "light a fire" under some of the other guys - Arcia, etc.  Look, either you have it or you don't.  If you need to have a fire lit under you, you don't have it.  Self motivated people are far more successful than those who need a kick in the pants and usually pass up people who need a kick in the pants because the boss's leg gets tired.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

A couple of notes - first, I've read posts saying that CQ is a low risk, high reward signing.  Dunno that I'd call CQ high reward.  His best year from the plate was 2008 - .288/.394/.985.  Career line of .252/.347/.831.  IF...and it's a big if...he can hit his career average, it's a decent signing.  Recent stats would indicate those expectations are unrealistic.

Quentin's career wRC+ is 122, darn close to Mauer's career 127.  Better than anything Arcia or Vargas have sustained.  Remember when folks were excited by Arcia's 2nd half in 2014?  120 wRC+.  Remember being excited about Vargas' 2014 debut?  114 wRC+. If we could get that level of performance for $750k, even as just a bench bat, that would be a lot better than "a decent signing."

 

The question is, of course, how likely is that?  Not terribly likely given the last 2 seasons, but before that, like Mauer, he was actually well *above* his career average the two seasons prior (145 wRC+ over 2012-2013), so a decent bounceback at age 33 isn't that preposterous.  Almost certainly worth up to 2 months of a AAA roster spot to find out (June 1st opt out), which is all the Twins appear to have invested so far.

 

If this was a MLB contract, or even a minor league deal with an April 1st out out, I would be opposed because that would suggest a commitment of spring training playing time and perhaps a premature judgement on Arcia, Vargas, etc.  But that June 1st opt out suggests this is not the case, and also suggests the Twins didn't make any undue promises to sign him.

[gocgo]

 

Quentin's career wRC+ is 122, darn close to Mauer's career 127.  Better than anything Arcia or Vargas have sustained.  Remember when folks were excited by Arcia's 2nd half in 2014?  120 wRC+.  Remember being excited about Vargas' 2014 debut?  114 wRC+. If we could get that level of performance for $750k, even as just a bench bat, that would be a lot better than "a decent signing."

 

The question is, of course, how likely is that?  Not terribly likely given the last 2 seasons, but before that, like Mauer, he was actually well *above* his career average the two seasons prior (145 wRC+ over 2012-2013), so a decent bounceback at age 33 isn't that preposterous.  Almost certainly worth up to 2 months of a AAA roster spot to find out (June 1st opt out), which is all the Twins appear to have invested so far.

 

If this was a MLB contract, or even a minor league deal with an April 1st out out, I would be opposed because that would suggest a commitment of spring training playing time and perhaps a premature judgement on Arcia, Vargas, etc.  But that June 1st opt out suggests this is not the case, and also suggests the Twins didn't make any undue promises to sign him.

Yeah, I think it's worth a flyer, but I don't see it as anything more than that.  I agree that it's not likely to pan out.

[AKTwins]

This is a good move, no risk, high reward.  Its not like Jason Bartlett were he is given a position on the 25 man roster.  Even if he gives us a good month, like Kubel did in 2014 that would be helpful, while Park, Varges, AB Walker and Arcia and whoever else get another month of at bats in AAA.

[nicksaviking]

This is a good move, no risk, high reward. Its not like Jason Bartlett were he is given a position on the 25 man roster. Even if he gives us a good month, like Kubel did in 2014 that would be helpful, while Park, Varges, AB Walker and Arcia and whoever else get another month of at bats in AAA.

Vargas and Arcia can't go to AAA, they are out of options.

 

All things being equal, no one would care about a minor league signing, the concern is the Twins will pin too much optimism on this aged longshot based on a handful of spring training games and sacrifice those two youngsters foolishly.

 

Not that they will, but that is the concern.

[old nurse]

 

Vargas and Arcia can't go to AAA, they are out of options.

All things being equal, no one would care about a minor league signing, the concern is the Twins will pin too much optimism on this aged longshot based on a handful of spring training games and sacrifice those two youngsters foolishly.

Not that they will, but that is the concern.

Vargas still has one option left as reported different places. Arcia has 853 PA at the MLB level. It should give the team a good idea where the problems lie for Arcia with a bat. There should be more than enough AB in the spring to get an idea where Arcia is at. Quentin probably will need all of ST and a little time in AAA to get back, if he does. The only report I have seen is that he says his knees feel better. That really is not terribly encouraging.  On a team that had only 2 players OPS over .760, and one was a pitcher, there is a need for some power.

[Linus]

Agreed. I hate this move, absolutely HATE it. Even if it's only a minor league signing with invite to ST this still means that he will be taking valuable playing time away from the prospects because he's a WISE AND WEATHERED veteran who happens to suck. I mean come on Terry! We have Kepler, Walker, Arcia, Buxton, all of whom have more talent and potential than this has been. Enough of the dumpster diving this is just stupid IMO.

Not at all. There are plenty of spring training at bats for everyone. Plus anybody on the 40 man that isn't in contention (Kepler abw) is going to be sent to minor league camp ASAP so they don't risk injury and MLB service time on the MLB DL.

 

This whole thing is a non story; most clubs do it just to see if they catch lighting in a bottle not because they are planning on them.