Cord-Cutters are Winning? ESPN is losing?!

[Willihammer]

Prime at $100/year is good value IMO. I only watch a movie now and then but the free 2 day shipping on everything is nice. And if you still have an active .edu email address you can get in for $50.

 

Also, smile.amazon.com throws a few coin at charity for no extra cost.

[Vanimal46]

 

How much is cord cutting and how much is declining interest in sports generally? Either way, doesn't look good for ESPN/Disney.

Probably a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. The big story this fall is the double digit decline in prime time NFL football games... ESPN's Monday Night Football included.

 

It could be that we're consuming sports in a vastly different way before. You don't have to spend 3-4 hours watching a game to be up to date on what's going on in the MLB/NFL, etc. There's 2 minute game recaps you can watch... If there's a controversial moment, you can view the clip on 45 different websites. 

I think we're around the same age, Willi. Do you feel the need to watch a TV show live anymore?

[Willihammer]

 

Probably a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. The big story this fall is the double digit decline in prime time NFL football games... ESPN's Monday Night Football included.

 

It could be that we're consuming sports in a vastly different way before. You don't have to spend 3-4 hours watching a game to be up to date on what's going on in the MLB/NFL, etc. There's 2 minute game recaps you can watch... If there's a controversial moment, you can view the clip on 45 different websites. 

I think we're around the same age, Willi. Do you feel the need to watch a TV show live anymore?

I'm that annoying guy who hasn't owned a TV in years. But sports are still best live IMO, I usually watch NFL on TVs at other people's houses and MLB via mlb.tv. You?

 

Speaking of which, my netflix queue probably has 50+ hours of programming in it, and its growing. I have more TV than I'll ever watch in there and its $10.99 / month. ESPN can't hold a candle to that value IMO.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Prime at $100/year is good value IMO. I only watch a movie now and then but the free 2 day shipping on everything is nice. And if you still have an active .edu email address you can get in for $50.

 

Also, smile.amazon.com throws a few coin at charity for no extra cost.

 

They just added Prime books also......and Prime music is very good.

[Vanimal46]

 

I'm that annoying guy who hasn't owned a TV in years. But sports are still best live IMO, I usually watch NFL on TVs at other people's houses and MLB via mlb.tv. You?

 

Speaking of which, my netflix queue probably has 50+ hours of programming in it, and its growing. I have more TV than I'll ever watch in there and its $10.99 / month. ESPN can't hold a candle to that value IMO.

Well, since I got this Playstation Vue now, I watch NFL RedZone, or catch the Vikings game whenever it's on regional or national coverage. Which fortunately has worked out quite well this season. Twins games on mlb.tv as well. 

Once the NFL season is over, I'll cancel Vue and stick with Netflix/Amazon prime. There's way too many shows to keep up with. 

[Vanimal46]

 

They just added Prime books also......and Prime music is very good.

Didn't know these were things.. Hmm, gonna have to check out both. Maybe prime music will prompt me to cancel Spotify. 

[Mike Sixel]

Spotify>>>Prime music....

 

Do spotify with your family, it's like 10 a month for 5 people....

[Vanimal46]

In this on going story, ESPN is now planning major lay-offs with their on-air talent. 

From the linked article: 

"The most immediate causes of the layoffs are clear. Over the last several years rights fees have skyrocketed, with ESPN now paying over $3.3 billion annually just to broadcast the NFL and NBA. Simultaneously, ESPN’s subscriber count and viewership—the fabled dual revenue stream that has made it the most envied television company in the country—have tumbled. While the loss of 12 million subscribers over five years is mostly due to generalized cord cutting, and not subscribers specifically dropping ESPN, it doesn’t really matter: It still amounts to losing almost a billion dollars annually. The status quo is unsustainable, and with rights fees already locked in for several years, salaries are one of the biggest areas available to cut expenses."

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

12MM subscribers, 1B in revenue....each subscriber is worth....83.33 dollars per year to ESPN.....does anyone else find those numbers to be way off, or does that include ad revenue?

 

Wait, it is worth MORE than than that per year, because that's over 5 years. Each subscriber is worth over $400 per year to ESPN. Interesting.....That says to me that way more money comes from advertising than cable rates, which maybe argues for lower cable rates to keep us on cable......Indeed, ESPN would be better off if they gave away their content, apparently. 

[Vanimal46]

 

12MM subscribers, 1B in revenue....each subscriber is worth....83.33 dollars per year to ESPN.....does anyone else find those numbers to be way off, or does that include ad revenue?

 

Wait, it is worth MORE than than that per year, because that's over 5 years. Each subscriber is worth over $400 per year to ESPN. Interesting.....That says to me that way more money comes from advertising than cable rates, which maybe argues for lower cable rates to keep us on cable......Indeed, ESPN would be better off if they gave away their content, apparently. 

 

I found this article that says cable subscribers pay on average $20-25 a month for sports alone. Compared to 2001, when a cable subscriber paid on average $2.85 a month for sports. Another problem for ESPN is subscribers have to take the entire bundle, including ESPN2, ESPN U, SEC Network, ESPN 8 The Ocho, instead of just paying for the one they truly want, ESPN. 

 

Frankly, I don't care too much about ESPN as I don't watch that channel unless the Vikings happen to play on MNF. I do find it fascinating that the landscape is changing, and ESPN is no longer the first and only option for sports sports sports. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

ESPN is in trouble. Their business model doesn't make sense in a world populated with Twins Dailys. Sure, they have high production video content but no longer do fans of a specific team need to watch two hours of Baseball Tonight and SportsCenter in hopes they'll get ten seconds of highlights on their favorite team.

 

Cord-cutting is only part of their problem. I haven't had ESPN in a decade and can count on my fingers how many times I've missed the channel.

[Vanimal46]

 

ESPN is in trouble. Their business model doesn't make sense in a world populated with Twins Dailys. Sure, they have high production video content but no longer do fans of a specific team need to watch two hours of Baseball Tonight and SportsCenter in hopes they'll get ten seconds of highlights on their favorite team.

 

Cord-cutting is only part of their problem. I haven't had ESPN in a decade and can count on my fingers how many times I've missed the channel.

 

No doubt... Before the explosion of dedicated blogs to sports teams, MLB Network, social media, etc. I used to watch SportsCenter from beginning to end hoping to catch highlights from the Twins game. Now we can simply google Twins game highlights and a compressed YouTube video is a click away. 

 

I truly don't know how they can fix it for the future. More and more people are catching on that discussing an athlete's tweet and what it means is worthless. The thing they have going for them is broadcasting live sports. Maybe they need to go back to their roots and broadcast random sports events throughout the day instead of HAWT TAEK DEBATES. 

[Mike Sixel]

Well, another issue is golf channel and mlb channel and nfl network, and, and, and......ESPN lost it's hold on sports. 

 

I also don't know how to fix it, but discouraging people from having cable probably isn't the answer....

[Craig Arko]

What makes you think it should or will be fixed? Disney doesn't like to bleed money.

[Mike Sixel]

Part of me is surprised they haven't sold off ESPN, actually. 

[Vanimal46]

Part of me is surprised they haven't sold off ESPN, actually.

Who else would buy them? Especially if average joe's like us can see their business model is broken with no easy solutions to fix it.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Who else would buy them? Especially if average joe's like us can see their business model is broken with no easy solutions to fix it.

 

spin them off was really what I meant to type. 

 

Would you buy them for $1? I might. What about 20MM dollars? Probably. Don't know how far I'd go....

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

What makes you think it should or will be fixed? Disney doesn't like to bleed money.

Off the top of my head, more focused, streaming content of actual sports mixed in with detailed analysis of said sports. Had ESPN acted earlier, offered more streaming, and broadcasted stuff like MMA and MLS games, I think they'd be better-positioned in the long run. Do the stuff nobody else is doing, that's what made ESPN great back in the day.

 

The current crop of "scorching hot take, bro" talking head content has to go. It's utter nonsense. Who wants to watch that ****?

[nicksaviking]

I don't watch much ESPN anymore, but it's still a bit sad. Forget about Sportscenter or the People Screaming At Each Other shows, they do have a lot of really good broadcasting talent, I'd hate to see some people out of a job.

 

More sadly, it's probably the broadcasters who focus on the more niche sports that will be first to go. Also probably the actual reporters, like the "Outside the Lines" kind of guys who can create something journalistically honorable will be on the chopping block, meanwhile they'll keep all the guys who Tweet breaking news of who's going to be the Cowboys backup QB next year.

[Vanimal46]

 

I don't watch much ESPN anymore, but it's still a bit sad. Forget about Sportscenter or the People Screaming At Each Other shows, they do have a lot of really good broadcasting talent, I'd hate to see some people out of a job.

 

More sadly, it's probably the broadcasters who focus on the more niche sports that will be first to go. Also probably the actual reporters, like the "Outside the Lines" kind of guys who can create something journalistically honorable will be on the chopping block, meanwhile they'll keep all the guys who Tweet breaking news of who's going to be the Cowboys backup QB next year.

 

Yeah, sadly that will probably be the case. There are plenty of "former jocks" who can barely speak full sentences, but they'll probably keep them because they think being a former player adds credibility to their hawt taeks. 

[Bark's Lounge]

I have cable and I have not watched ESPN for a decade. ESPN doe not deliver the goods for my specialized interests and I am sure a great amount of you are in the same boat. ESPN is obsolete.

[nicksaviking]

 

Yeah, sadly that will probably be the case. There are plenty of "former jocks" who can barely speak full sentences, but they'll probably keep them because they think being a former player adds credibility to their hawt taeks. 

 

Agree. Hopefully the former jocks have historically asked for and gotten more money than the guys who actually went to school for this stuff. If that's the case than maybe the jocks get cut to save cash.

 

But I really have no clue, maybe the jocks don't actually get paid more.

[Vanimal46]

 

Agree. Hopefully the former jocks have historically asked for and gotten more money than the guys who actually went to school for this stuff. If that's the case than maybe the jocks get cut to save cash.

 

But I really have no clue, maybe the jocks don't actually get paid more.

 

I have no idea either. I've got to imagine ESPN is paying Gruden pretty dang well to stay in the broadcast booth and not go back to coaching. Can't think of the names of other NFL analysts they have... Feels like they have a rotation of 30 former NFL players. 

[Mike Sixel]

Youtube/google should buy ESPN, imo.

 

Get lots of people to sign up, and put in the ads. Get live sports on streaming. I see real money there.

[Vanimal46]

 

Youtube/google should buy ESPN, imo.

 

Get lots of people to sign up, and put in the ads. Get live sports on streaming. I see real money there.

 

Yeah, Google is definitely big enough to take on a $1+ Billion acquisition. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Youtube/google should buy ESPN, imo.

 

Get lots of people to sign up, and put in the ads. Get live sports on streaming. I see real money there.

 

I could see a Netflix getting into that game too. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Well, another issue is golf channel and mlb channel and nfl network, and, and, and......ESPN lost it's hold on sports. 

 

I also don't know how to fix it, but discouraging people from having cable probably isn't the answer....

 

You can watch almost every sport on a channel not named ESPN.  Hockey is elsewhere.  The NBA's main vehicle is probably TNT now.  The NFL has it's own thing.  Each baseball team has their own thing.

 

They've lost their dominance and the rest of what they have to offer is pretty lousy.

[kab21]

I always thought that the regional sports stations paying these ridiculous prices for the local sports team broadcast rights would have been the first to collapse. Yes, I can understand that sports fans will watch their local team but the prices paid for some of these rights (not the Twins) were downright ridiculous.

It will be interesting to see if these rights start going down in value and how it impacts MLB/NFL/NBA/NHL salaries.

[Vanimal46]

 

I always thought that the regional sports stations paying these ridiculous prices for the local sports team broadcast rights would have been the first to collapse. Yes, I can understand that sports fans will watch their local team but the prices paid for some of these rights (not the Twins) were downright ridiculous.

It will be interesting to see if these rights start going down in value and how it impacts MLB/NFL/NBA/NHL salaries.

 

Are the team's local TV contracts also tied into the revenue generated from MLB.tv, MLB Advanced Media, whatever other streaming networks are out there for the other sports?

If the rights start going down in value, we know the owner's aren't going to take that loss for long. Salaries in all sports would decline for sure. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Youtube/google should buy ESPN, imo.

 

Get lots of people to sign up, and put in the ads. Get live sports on streaming. I see real money there.

Well, that's really Disney's goal with the MLBAM purchase. Ultimately, we'll see ESPN streaming to devices.