Article: Twins Add Seven To Their 40 Man Roster, Lose Achter, Pinto

[Captain Hindsight]

 

10/14 players last year stuck from the rule V draft. That success rate should perk up any GMlooking for talent. That should be almost every GM. I do not think that $25K for a flyer on somebody is an unreasonable gamble in mlb. The question would be how many teams have room on their 40 man to take flyers on players.Despite other people's opinions to the contrary, quality bullpen depth is not so easy to get. There were quite a few drafted last year in the rule v, a few stuck.Bullpen is usually a position of need. It would not be out of the realm of possibility that a team will take a flyer on a Twins pitcher, as there are 6 pitchers deemed possibly close enough to be major league ready.I wonder if the Twins view those pitchers not anywhere near major league ready. If another team get intrigued enough on a flyer, then there is a shot for a fleece of a trade.

Looking at Sean Gilmartin, did the Twins think Dean=Gilmartin so they peotected him?

 

That was my thinking with Dean. He, like Gilmartin, was another lefty starter with fringe stuff that might attract attention in the Rule V as a BP candidate. Last year they might have thought Gilmartin was safe as generally teams select high velocity guys hoping to strike gold. They did not want to repeat the same mistake and Dean could be usesful to them next year so protecting him gives them the opportunity to find out. I think the difference between the two is, Gilmartin at least showed the ability to strikeout to strikeout batters in the minors, Dean never really did and survived mostly on limiting free passes.

[ThejacKmp]

 

This is a point that is often overlooked. Very easy to hide a pitcher, very tough to hide a position player with 4 player benches.

 

And usually everyday guys that are kept bring at least one plus tool to the table (usually speed or d), not sure Michael really has this. Fine guy for org depth and may ultimately get some run as a utility guy, but a team would really have to punt that position to keep him all year.

 

Especially had to hide when you think about those inevitable times when a few guys are banged up and need a day. It really reverberates down your roster to have a bench guy you don't really want to play. Michael will be fine.

[stringer bell]

Gilmartin had a good year in a new role and the Twins could have used his production in 2015, but I doubt he'll be a significant performer going forward. I don't think the Twins would trade either Graham or Pressly for Gilmartin today.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Gilmartin had a good year in a new role and the Twins could have used his production in 2015, but I doubt he'll be a significant performer going forward. I don't think the Twins would trade either Graham or Pressly for Gilmartin today.

 

that wasn't the choice, though.....the choice was protecting guys that had zero chance to be on the roster, or a LH that (other teams) could move to the BP.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Finally found the rule:

 

http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3517

 

See the section at the bottom on "Draft-Excluded Players."

 

 

 

Draft-Excluded Player

A "Draft-Excluded Player" is any minor league player eligible for selection in the Rule 5 Draft whose contract is selected and who is added to an MLB Reserve List (40-man roster) between August 15th and the Rule 5 Draft.

 

While a "Draft-Excluded Player" can be non-tendered on 12/2 and released or traded at any time, he cannot be sent to the minors by Optional Assignment beginning with the conclusion of the MLB regular season up until 20 days prior to MLB Opening Day. Also, a "Draft-Excluded Player" can be outrighted to the minors only if Outright Assignment Waivers are requested no later than 2 PM (Eastern) on the 4th day following the final game of the World Series, and if a "Draft-Excluded Player" is not outrighted to the minors prior to the Rule 5 Draft, the player cannot be sent outright to the minors any earlier than 20 days prior to the start of the MLB regular season.

Emphasis mine.

 

Basically, guys added to the 40-man after August 15th who would otherwise be Rule 5 eligible (including the guys added last week) can't be outrighted between Dec. 10 and roughly March 15 next spring.

 

They can be traded or released at any time, but you can't pass them through waivers and outright them (removing them from the 40-man but keeping them in the organization) during that period.  Which effectively means the player's 40-man spot is secured until March 15 -- if a team needs to free a spot in the interim, they will generally trade or try to waive/outright another player (i.e. what we just tried with Achter and Pinto).

[s1xthw1]

 

I'm really disappointed they protected Rosario and Dean over Michael... Michael will be picked up for sure. When healthy he hits good and plays solid D, perfect for a rule 5 guy. Rosario making it all season in a MLB bullpen seems unlikely along with Dean being 26, he's in the prime of his career already.. Landa throws 100 so I can understand a guy like him being picked up. Just so disappointed I was starting to like Michael. Have to think Jones is a risk as well.

 

I will be shocked if Michael is selected.  He hasn't been able to stay healthy and really hasn't shown that much when he is healthy.

 

[Seth Stohs]

One Twins player made the list of Rule 5 Names to Remember at Baseball America... http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2015-rule-5-draft-preview-names-remember/ 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

One Twins player made the list of Rule 5 Names to Remember at Baseball America... http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2015-rule-5-draft-preview-names-remember/ 

Thanks, that's a more exhaustive list than the MLB.com Top 10 I posted earlier.

 

Same Twins name on both lists, though (Zach Jones).

 

Note that Pat Dean is older than every pitcher on that list except Kyle Drabek (who just signed as a minor league free agent and has over 2.5 seasons MLB service time).

[DJL44]

Taylor Davis looks interesting on that list.

[ashbury]

 

One Twins player made the list of Rule 5 Names to Remember at Baseball America... http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2015-rule-5-draft-preview-names-remember/ 

Soon as I scrolled down and saw "Hard-Throwing Relievers With Control Trouble" I said, here we are.

[diehardtwinsfan]

There's definitely a few guys on that list that I'd trade Zach Jones for in a heart beat, so from that aspect, I'm good. 

 

Not quite as certain about Josmil Pinto (rather not have lost) or for that matter, Pat Dean (not sure why he was protected).  Honestly, if Dean is that valuable to a major league team, I'd have spent a lot of time trying to flip him to another team for say a similarly blocked OF or even an RP.  It wouldn't have to be much I would think, as no one would have cried if Dean was flipped for a young reliever or a 4th OF. 

 

Dean likely isn't going to see much time in MN other than a spot start as he's likely behind Rodgers, Duffey, May, and even Meyer in the pecking order as well as being chased by Berrios who I suspect will get added at some point in 2016.

[ashbury]

The thing that bugs me about Dean is that he spent his age-26 year at AAA, yet wasn't deemed by the Twins worthy of a September look-see in mopup duty, which would only have cost them the unusable Aaron Thompson being dropped from the 40-man (I think), but now they don't want him snapped up by some other team.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The thing that bugs me about Dean is that he spent his age-26 year at AAA, yet wasn't deemed by the Twins worthy of a September look-see in mopup duty, which would only have cost them the unusable Aaron Thompson being dropped from the 40-man (I think), but now they don't want him snapped up by some other team.

Yes, agreed 100%.  Guys at that age and level, with that track record, should absolutely be expected to have an MLB audition before they spend a whole winter on the 40-man roster.  (Which Thompson himself did in 2014, as well as Oliveros, and Fryer in 2013, etc.)

 

Likewise, a guy like Gilmartin should probably get that audition too before it is determined that we'd be OK losing him in Rule 5.  Worst case, you see something in the audition that makes you not want to keep him on the roster all winter, and without Rule 5 restrictions you can probably flip him for another marginal player to fill a AAA depth role if that's all you wanted anyway.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm not sure I agree with that line of reasoning.  Now you're adding a guy in the fall just to DFA them in the winter.  There really isn't an idea way to handle that I guess other than that it needs to happen.  My biggest beef has more to do with who was kept and who was let go.  Pinto most definitely wouldn't have been DFAd in my opinion, not in favor of Dean at least.  Who knows, perhaps he's still seeing double and that's why he got the boot.  Either way, no way I'd have given up that easily. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm not sure I agree with that line of reasoning.  Now you're adding a guy in the fall just to DFA them in the winter.

If you think you might DFA them after a brief MLB audition, perhaps they're not worth protecting on the 40-man all winter without the audition anyway.

Edited November 24, 2015 by spycake

[sane]

 

perhaps he's still seeing double and that's why he got the boot.

Rumor is that he keeps answering the phone, but it's not ringing.

[ashbury]

Rumor is that he keeps answering the phone, but it's not ringing.

LOL, because teh concussionzes.

[drjim]

A BA list with 46 players that might get drafted in the Rule 5. Zack Jones is the only Twin to make it. I suspect the rest of marginal guys in the org are going to be fine.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2015-rule-5-draft-preview-names-remember/

[sane]

 

A BA list with 46 players that might get drafted in the Rule 5. Zack Jones is the only Twin to make it. I suspect the rest of marginal guys in the org are going to be fine.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2015-rule-5-draft-preview-names-remember/

That list has 46 players and only 14 were selected last year. If all players were equal, we would have about a 50% chance of escaping unharmed. 

[sane]

If the 2015 Rule5 draft parallels the 2014 draft (and that may be highly unlikely) the following numbers in various categories of players will be drafted.

Starting Pitchers with strong arms - 3

Relief Pitchers with control issues - 3

Finesse Pitchers with good control - 3

Catchers - 1

Infielders - 2

Outfielders - 2

Total - 14

Using this link:

http://www.baseballa...names-remember/..

the category in which Zach Jones fits (Relief Pitchers with control issues) had only three pitchers drafted last year. Their were 15 such pitchers listed in the website above.

So, using very shaky theory, the odds of Zach Jones being drafted (in a parallel draft to 2014) would be ROUGHLY three out of 15, or 20%.

That is comforting for those of us who wish to maintain Zach Jones in the Twins organization.

Please don't send this to my ex-teachers or ex-bosses.

They may want my diplomas, degrees and pay-checks returned.

[ashbury]

Please don't send this to my ex-teachers or ex-bosses.

They may want my diplomas, degrees and pay-checks returned.

If we send just to your teachers, maybe you can apply for a refund.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

A BA list with 46 players that might get drafted in the Rule 5. Zack Jones is the only Twin to make it. I suspect the rest of marginal guys in the org are going to be fine.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2015-rule-5-draft-preview-names-remember/

Further analysis: last year, BA published a similar list of 77 minor league guys, and still missed two picks (Odubel Herrera, arguably the best pick last year, and David Rollins).

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/notable-players-available-rule-5-draft/

 

They did feature 10 "most notable" guys at the top of the list, which included 4 eventual picks.

[sane]

 

If we send just to your teachers, maybe you can apply for a refund.

If I recall what teachers used to earn, THAT refund is NOT in the works.

[GM64]

Merely an FYI:  Achter DFA'd by Phillies as part of their acquisition of Charlie Morton.

[ashbury]

Merely an FYI:  Achter DFA'd by Phillies as part of their acquisition of Charlie Morton.

This part of the waiver-claim process needs to change. If you decide to drop the player from your 40-man, within some period of time I'll leave others to define, he should be revert back to the previous team and waivers resume, and the previous team can stash him if he clears this time.

[Otto von Ballpark]

This part of the waiver-claim process needs to change. If you decide to drop the player from your 40-man, within some period of time I'll leave others to define, he should be revert back to the previous team and waivers resume, and the previous team can stash him if he clears this time.

Not sure it's that big of a deal, a player can only be outrighted once without their consent anyway. If it happens to Achter, he will get to elect free agency after 2016 unless he is added back before then, regardless of where he lands on the merry go round.

 

Also not sure it is good for the player. By the time he would be returned to the Twins, he may be further down the depth chart here than in Philly. And any attempt to disincentive a team from claiming him is bad (and removing the potential for outrighting would do just that). I think Achter would rather stay on a 40-man roster and get those benefits as long as possible, regardless of how many hats he has to wear in the process.

[ashbury]

Fair points, spycake. It's an eternal balancing act between doing what's best for fans and what's best for the players.

 

Losing the 41st man off your roster isn't the end of the world for fans, but (to me at least) it's a definite irritant. I don't want to punish another team for claiming a player, because it does provide opportunity for some players; it just seems like there's a perverse incentive in play here, when the claiming team changes their mind.

 

I don't see how losing a player the claiming team never had in the first place is a disincentive for them to try to find a spot for the player when they have a genuine opening. The current process leaves me guessing some of the openings aren't genuine.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Few openings are ever "genuine" when you are dealing with the quality of players sent through waivers.

[nicksaviking]

 

Not sure it's that big of a deal, a player can only be outrighted once without their consent anyway. If it happens to Achter, he will get to elect free agency after 2016 unless he is added back before then, regardless of where he lands on the merry go round.

Also not sure it is good for the player. By the time he would be returned to the Twins, he may be further down the depth chart here than in Philly. And any attempt to disincentive a team from claiming him is bad (and removing the potential for outrighting would do just that). I think Achter would rather stay on a 40-man roster and get those benefits as long as possible, regardless of how many hats he has to wear in the process.

 

Offseason DFAs probably aren't such a big deal, however those in season DFAs we've seen recently, mostly involving Toronto it seems, leave the player in limbo for a week.  When it happens to the guy repeatedly, the guy can lose a month of playing time simply because some clubs are jerking him around. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Offseason DFAs probably aren't such a big deal, however those in season DFAs we've seen recently, mostly involving Toronto it seems, leave the player in limbo for a week.  When it happens to the guy repeatedly, the guy can lose a month of playing time simply because some clubs are jerking him around. 

But he keeps his MLB salary and benefits that whole time.  Obviously they'd rather just stick on one team's roster, but when that's not an option, I suspect the players prefer the DFA carousel to being outrighted immediately to AAA.

 

After the Twins waived him in 2013, Alex Burnett managed to get over 2 more months on 40-man rosters, including some days of MLB service too.  Not bad for a guy who was out of affiliated ball a few months later anyway.