Article: Twins Add Seven To Their 40 Man Roster, Lose Achter, Pinto

[Otto von Ballpark]

1) They have all been to the Twins Minor League Spring Training camp for three to five years from late February to early April where:

2) Baseball players often speak to each other at batting cages, bullpens, team meetings, pitchers meetings, meals, workouts, weight lifting, bull-**** sessions and local establishments.

3) They often speak to each other about "why were you and I passed over for THAT guy?"

4) They all speak to their own teammates and often on the subject of the teammates' teammates.

5) During ST,usually they talk to other players more frequently, than to their own family and friends.

Fine. But you really think say Felix Jorge is going to feel any more motivation now than he would have if Pat Dean had not been added to the 40-man roster yesterday, but was still given a chance to make the team in spring training and maybe a MLB cameo mid season?

 

Heck, if Dean had been claimed by another club in Rule 5, wouldn't that also provide motivation to other players, both as example of another path to opportunity and as a rotation opening higher up the ladder?

 

I do not doubt motivating factors exist all over baseball, but they are so complex and hard to predict that you can't really use them as a basis for a decision like this one.

[stringer bell]

If the Twins sign Park and add a major league free agent plus make a pick in the Rule V, they have to designate someone other than the seven guys they just promoted, is that right? Who would then be designated? Darnell? O'Rourke?

[Otto von Ballpark]

If the Twins sign Park and add a major league free agent plus make a pick in the Rule V, they have to designate someone other than the seven guys they just promoted, is that right? Who would then be designated? Darnell? O'Rourke?

Yes, as it currently stands. I suspect we may not make a Rule 5 selection, though, and a trade could also open a spot.

 

Tonkin might be a prime casualty too, since he is out of options anyway.

Edited November 21, 2015 by spycake

[sane]

Fine. But you really think say Felix Jorge is going to feel any more motivation now than he would have if Pat Dean had not been added to the 40-man roster yesterday, but was still given a chance to make the team in spring training and maybe a MLB cameo mid season?

I do not doubt motivating factors exist all over baseball, but they are so complex and hard to predict that you can't really use them as a basis for a decision like this one.

My point is that the Twins (or any company) that demonstrates to players (employees) that hard work is valued as much (or more) than God-given talent will encourage hard work in their players (employees).

This tactic is used for motivational purposes almost universally, and I'm sure the Twins are aware of it and most likely use it.

That may (or may not) be the result or even the purpose of the Dean promotion, but as my caveat reads, I am an outsider regarding Twins decision making.

[twinssouth]

 

It is so much more difficult to stash a position player on a major league roster than a pitcher. I doubt Michael is far enough to stick on a MLB roster for an entire year. He likely gets taken but the Twins have a great shot at getting him back if they want to. If Michael does perform I think you tip your cap because he beat the odds.

 

Agree, also every year Michael had an injury.  Highest he got was AA and I saw no special tools in the games I saw him play (average arm at best and not always accurate).    Remember, he was drafted as a SS but couldn't stick.  He could be a late bloomer if he can just play a full season

[Thrylos]

 

Wilin Rosario was DFAed by the Rockies. The rich man's Josmil Pinto?

 

.235/.260/.408 slash line outside Coors Field.  Rich man's?

[twinsfansd]

 

It is not a question of Dean vs another prospect for me, I think they did a fair job protecting otherwise. But Dean's roster spot would probably be better used on a waiver claim, a FA, etc, sometime in the next year, rather than rewarding a low upside guy who was unlikely to be claimed just so he can be AAA depth.

Heck, I doubt most of the relevant unprotected prospects have barely if ever even been Pat Dean's teammate, much less have an understanding why he was protected over them. The last guy on the 40 man is a much more abstract position than even, say, the last guy on the 25 man. (Where the Twins have had no issues allocating the spot for reasons other than talent/merit too, I might add.)

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

10 interesting prospects available in the Rule 5 draft:

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/157830358/top-10-prospects-available-in-rule-5-draft

 

Tyler Jones makes the list, among 7 pitchers vs 3 position players.

[jorgenswest]

10 interesting prospects available in the Rule 5 draft:

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/157830358/top-10-prospects-available-in-rule-5-draft

Tyler Jones makes the list, among 7 pitchers vs 3 position players.

Thanks. The context relative to other teams and players available is important.

[blindeke]

I'm glad I got to see Pinto a few times when he was mashing at the end of the '13 season! He looked great.

[twinssouth]

 

Not that prospects lists are everything but Jones is at number 23 on MLB.com.  Dean isn't even listed and I don't even remember Dean being on anyone's top 50 either.  How often do teams give up top 20 prospects to the Rule 5?

 

I really liked Jones but that last injury probably did him in, as Twins probably felt he won't get his velocity back.  The game I saw this summer, he was sitting at 93/94 tops, no where near his 98/100 pre-injury.

[DocBauer]

I really don't see the Twins being active drafting anyone unless it's a LH relief option or a RH OF to come off the bench and maybe platoon (ish) with Arcia. Otherwise, not sure where'd there even be room to stash someone.

[Minniman]

As long as the Twins protect Sean Gilmartin, I am fine with it.

 

WHAT?

 

Nevermind ...

 

[jsteve96]

plus, I'm betting no one looks back on this next October to check... Ha!

if I'm right I'm sure I will lol

[shs_59]

They will not lose Levi Michael in the Rule 5 Draft...

 

No way.  he could not be "hidden" on a n MLB roster all year long....

 

What do the Twins  see in JR Graham ? at this point, i think he could be removed.

I personally, like the additions....

 

I don't think the Twins would of lost Landa in the Rule 5 , unless of course the minor league portion of it.

 

The only guy i think might be as good as gone is LHP Corey Williams, and im not even too sure about that.  who else would be taken ? Michael is not going anywhere

[jorgenswest]

What do the Twins  see in JR Graham ? at this point, i think he could be removed.

I personally, like the additions....

Graham should be in the starting rotation in AAA next year. He is worth a 40 spot to see if the talent he had before the injury resurfaces.

[Thrylos]

 

The only guy i think might be as good as gone is LHP Corey Williams, and im not even too sure about that.  who else would be taken ? Michael is not going anywhere

 

Here

 

(in about 4234 words)

 

 

[Seth Stohs]

 

As an outsider to the Twins decision-making, I am going to take a guess on the Dean decision.
Sometimes you reward the guy who out-works all of your prospects, because all of your prospects will learn that hard work often results in rewards. THAT MESSAGE to ALL of your prospects is worth more than the 41st man on the roster who isn't working hard enough.

 

Maybe one some teams... Terry Ryan isn't going to do that. 

 

I think that all the angst over Dean is a bit much... The Twins think he's worth protecting. That's the story. That's it. It's not some conspiracy or something. 

[Seth Stohs]

 

Wimmers also could be picked and stashed, but have not seen his medicals and maybe the Twins feel he will never make it back from TJ surgery.  Bard and Williams are the two I see the Twins losing. 

One other note, I believe the Pirates lost 7 players one year somewhere back in the 2000's.

 

Wimmers has been back for two full seasons after TJ surgery. At this point, it won't be about medicals, at least not any more than any other player transaction would be.

[Seth Stohs]

 

So we can just do whatever we want with the 40-man spot in the meantime? Personally, in the meantime, I'd rather use it on upside or attempting to find a guy who might stick long term, rather than just subbing it for whatever minor league FA we usually sign to be AAA starter insurance.

 

1.) They can still sign free agents.

2.) they will need to sign BH Park.

3.) Minor League FA have nothing to do with the 40 man roster.

[jsteve96]

 

OK, sure... but some of those have zero chance of getting selected. In fact, I would say Dereck Rodriguez has a significantly better chance of being selected in the Rule 5 than Reynaldo.

 

The guys I see as at-risk are Zack Jones, Corey Williams, Levi Michael and Felix Jorge. 

i could see myself getting selected in this draft before Rodriguez

[jsteve96]

 

They will not lose Levi Michael in the Rule 5 Draft...

 

No way.  he could not be "hidden" on a n MLB roster all year long....

 

What do the Twins  see in JR Graham ? at this point, i think he could be removed.

I personally, like the additions....

 

I don't think the Twins would of lost Landa in the Rule 5 , unless of course the minor league portion of it.

 

The only guy i think might be as good as gone is LHP Corey Williams, and im not even too sure about that.  who else would be taken ? Michael is not going anywhere

They will lose Michael. do I think he'll last the whole year in the MLB, probably not but he will be selected. an IF that can play 3 positions fine and has shown he can hit and steal bases when healthy. prototypical Utility man

[Seth Stohs]

 

Here

 

(in about 4234 words)

 

I assume anyone over 50% means that you assume they will be drafted. If that is correct, it looks like you think that the wins will lose like 7-8 players in the Rule 5 draft... Ummm...

[sane]

it looks like you think that the wins will lose like 7-8 players in the Rule 5 draft... Ummm...

If "Ummm.." is code for "No bleeping way!",I agree with Seth.

[Otto von Ballpark]

1.) They can still sign free agents.

2.) they will need to sign BH Park.

3.) Minor League FA have nothing to do with the 40 man roster.

Perhaps you misunderstood my post. My reference to minor league FA was saying those were the types that usually fill Dean's expected role (low upside AAA depth). We didn't need to use a 40 man roster spot to fill it.

[stringer bell]

I'd like to see Wimmers make it after the hardships he had to endure. Just glancing at boxscores, he seemed very inconsistent--sometimes dominating, sometimes batting practice.

[stringer bell]

Trying to post from my iPhone, it figures that he wasn't protected because of his age and past.

[old nurse]

10/14 players last year stuck from the rule V draft. That success rate should perk up any GMlooking for talent. That should be almost every GM. I do not think that $25K for a flyer on somebody is an unreasonable gamble in mlb. The question would be how many teams have room on their 40 man to take flyers on players.Despite other people's opinions to the contrary, quality bullpen depth is not so easy to get. There were quite a few drafted last year in the rule v, a few stuck.Bullpen is usually a position of need. It would not be out of the realm of possibility that a team will take a flyer on a Twins pitcher, as there are 6 pitchers deemed possibly close enough to be major league ready.I wonder if the Twins view those pitchers not anywhere near major league ready. If another team get intrigued enough on a flyer, then there is a shot for a fleece of a trade.

Looking at Sean Gilmartin, did the Twins think Dean=Gilmartin so they peotected him?

[Thrylos]

 

I assume anyone over 50% means that you assume they will be drafted. If that is correct, it looks like you think that the wins will lose like 7-8 players in the Rule 5 draft... Ummm...

 

 

No

 

Think of it as analogous to  % chance of making the big leagues for a prospect.

 

>50% means that there is a better likelihood that they will get drafted than not, but a lot of things have to happen, including to fill a need for a particular team to get drafted.

 

Wimmers is the most likely to get drafted, and the only one I will be surprised not to see drafted.  There are a few more that are very likely to get drafted (Williams, Michael, Jones and Johnson), but they need to fill a need in a particular team to get drafted.  e.g. someone in need of middle infield help might fill than need from inside their organization or with another eligible player than Michael.   This does not mean that Michael could not fill than need at the MLB-level.

 

Does it make sense?  Potential risk, not a crystal ball...

Edited November 22, 2015 by Thrylos

[Dman]

I'd like to see Wimmers make it after the hardships he had to endure. Just glancing at boxscores, he seemed very inconsistent--sometimes dominating, sometimes batting practice.

I agree with your assessment of Wimmers. Thing is I believe Gilmartin was pretty much the same way the year before and yet the Mets were able to look past that and see the potential. I don't think Wimmers has the stuff to start but I think he can be a very good bullpen arm with just a little bit more consistency. A risk to be sure but one I think some team will take.