Yeah! Go Aints!!....oh

 

I am with ya that the Saints can do whatever they please, but when they start asking for public money to fund refurbishing their stadium...they really shouldn't tick off the majority of the tax payers. Did I use majority correctly?

Those damn Atheists will be the death of us. Their beliefs have never started wars, they never go door to door trying to force their idealism on other citizens, they believe in science to a fault (yuck), they have never conquered foreign land in the name of their beliefs - killing the men of these conquered lands and raping their women and burning their civilizations to the ground. Those damn Atheist... we need to round them up and rid ourselves of these poisonous parasites for good! Amen.

Those damn Atheists will be the death of us. Their beliefs have never started wars' date=' they [b']never [/b]go door to door trying to force their idealism on other citizens, they believe in science to a fault (yuck), they have never conquered foreign land in the name of their beliefs - killing the men of these conquered lands and raping their women and burning their civilizations to the ground. Those damn Atheist... we need to round them up and rid ourselves of these poisonous parasites for good! Amen.

While I won't debate the believer/athiest deal here, I will say that in every faith/race/demographic majority, work has been done to suppress the minority, and that is work of the human spirit, not something that is unique to white people, Christians, Jews, men, or any majority group. Mainly, these conflicts and forced states up on others all boil down to a human desire for power and control, and that's not unique to any faith group, any race, or any other demographic section.

You're looking at this all wrong. Atheists are part of a minority group in this country and as such they have "support groups" just the same as homosexuals, African Americans, factory workers, truck drivers, etc... It might interest you to know that atheists are the least trusted large minority group. American citizens are more comfortable with a gay person, Muslim, African American, or woman becoming president than an atheist. As such there is discrimination that occurs. To be clear I'm not saying Atheists have faced anything on the level of slavery, the intolerable working conditions of the poor in the 19th and 20th centuries, the racial profiling of Arab Americans, ect... but there is discrimination just the same. If you look back at history in this country the most effective way to combat discrimination is through massing large numbers of people to create a national dialogue. So between support groups and tools to drive political / ideological change organized atheism make sense.

 

Here are a couple of polls showing how little atheists are thought of:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/Atheists-Muslims-Bias-Presidential-Candidates.aspx

http://www.gallup.com/poll/24385/Democrats-View-Religious-Groups-Less-Positively-Than-Republicans.aspx

Does it matter that I'm an atheist myself? I don't feel persecuted for my lack of faith, nor do I feel the need to proselytize. I'd much rather be atheist than gay in a room full of Christians.

 

I can't speak for those involved in organized atheism, only my own personal experience.

Those damn Atheists will be the death of us. Their beliefs have never started wars' date=' they [b']never [/b]go door to door trying to force their idealism on other citizens, they believe in science to a fault (yuck), they have never conquered foreign land in the name of their beliefs - killing the men of these conquered lands and raping their women and burning their civilizations to the ground. Those damn Atheist... we need to round them up and rid ourselves of these poisonous parasites for good! Amen.

Yes, of course, Joseph Stalin never killed anyone.

Those damn Atheists will be the death of us. Their beliefs have never started wars' date=' they [b']never [/b]go door to door trying to force their idealism on other citizens, they believe in science to a fault (yuck), they have never conquered foreign land in the name of their beliefs - killing the men of these conquered lands and raping their women and burning their civilizations to the ground. Those damn Atheist... we need to round them up and rid ourselves of these poisonous parasites for good! Amen.

You're kidding right? Maybe not in the name of atheism, but as a necessary condition, all kinds of suffering has come at the hands of those who replace a deity as a first or limit principle and insert a person, group, government, ideology or some other authoritarian institution in it's place.

Yes, of course, Joseph Stalin never killed anyone.

Stalin falls under the Cult of Personality clause, I could not tell you what he believed in. He was an atrocious human being (murdering 10's of Millions). I expected a reply using him or Hitler as an example. Is he an Atheist - I don't know. Am I an Atheist - No. I don't assume anything. I guess I am an agnostic. Stalin and Hitler are an easy way to force feed me Christian Righteousness. I'm not a buyer.

Whatever, if the Saints think this is great marketing ploy, great. They are a private enterprise and can (should be able to) appeal to and promote.... and contrariwise alienate and reject whomever and whatever they want.

Stalin falls under the Cult of Personality clause' date=' I could not tell you what he believed in. He was an atrocious human being (murdering 10's of Millions). I expected a reply using him or Hitler as an example. Is he an Atheist - I don't know. Am I an Atheist - No. I don't assume anything. I guess I am an agnostic. Stalin and Hitler are an easy way to force feed me Christian Righteousness. I'm not a buyer.[/quote']

Be careful not to conflate two arguments. POWER's point was to your argument that atheists are largely (or relatively) benign, not that you should convert to theism.

I believe the North Koreans are Atheist.

You're kidding right? Maybe not in the name of atheism, but as a necessary condition, all kinds of suffering has come at the hands of those who replace a deity as a first or limit principle and insert a person, group, government, ideology or some other authoritarian institution in it's place.

Hey Ultima Ratio (for once I got your name right). I was not talking about "Cult of Personality Dictators". I am sure there are some who could fall in line with being non-religious, of this I do not know the stats. Being an individual who grew up in the ****ty parts of town and living hand to mouth as a child might have something to do my understanding of our society. Poor people usually adhere themselves to religion, because they are bankrupt of hope, finances, knowledge, and vision. I am somewhat offended that the words I have used in this thread have been used against me, and taken out context. Ignorance holds the hand of the downtroddened. Ultima Ratio - you are a professor or teacher.. right? I will not say "you should know better", but I expect a lot more from you as an educated man. I will leave you with this:

 

What happens to a dream deferred?

Does it dry up

like a raisin in the sun?

Or fester like a sore--

And then run?

Does it stink like rotten meat?

Or crust and sugar over--

like a syrupy sweet?

Maybe it just sags

like a heavy load.

Or does it explode?

Their Marketing works.

 

We're talking Saints Baseball.

 

Aren't we??????????

I am somewhat offended that the words I have used in this thread have been used against me' date=' and taken out context. Ignorance holds the hand of the downtroddened. .... I will not say "you should know better", but I expect a lot more from you as an educated man. [/quote']

 

I'm unclear with the following:

 

1. What should I know better? That education liberates the mind and body? And that by pointing out that you are wrong about a convergence of atheists with good behavior I've somehow betrayed that knowledge?

 

Or are you saying that I should know better than to be a theist (if I am)?

 

2. What's been taken out of context? I don't see that it has happened therefore I don't know why your are offended. Offended by what?

 

Look, I don't care what you believe in and I really don't wish to debate it, but you've made some statements here which I think you should take ownership of or clarify.

 

I swear I didn't look up the poem, but will guess that it's Nietzche from "The Gay Science"

Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

Anything else? The poem? Edit: I looked it up. Nice.

Anything else? The poem? Edit: I looked it up. Nice.

Langston Hughes.

I am tired of the arguments, Nobody really needs them. Maybe I will explode....

Langston Hughes.

Wait, the quote?

 

That's Rousseau.

Does it matter that I'm an atheist myself? I don't feel persecuted for my lack of faith, nor do I feel the need to proselytize. I'd much rather be atheist than gay in a room full of Christians.

 

I can't speak for those involved in organized atheism, only my own personal experience.

You stated that you didn't understand the need for organized atheism. I took that to mean "if you don't believe in God why would you organize to not believe in said God?" Which I totally agree with...that makes no sense to me, but if that is what others need then so be it I don't care. I was merely showing that there are reasons other than religion to for Atheists to organize. And to answer your question directly no it doesn't matter to me what your personal beliefs are.