Minor League Signings

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Okay, so someone explain this to me.

 

 Nick Anderson and Buddy Boshers had similar type dominant numbers in Indy ball in 2015. Yet, Anderson ends up closing in low-A Cedar Rapids and Boshers gets an invite to spring training this year. Is it simply that Boshers has already had experience in AAA ball and a cup of coffee with the Angels? Is the Atlantic League (Boshers) significantly better than the Frontier league (Anderson)?  Because Boshers is a lefty and Anderson a righty? 

 

Just trying to make sense of it.

Atlantic League is significantly better than Frontier League -- just scrolling through the league registers, only one player in the 2015 Frontier League has ever appeared in MLB.  The Atlantic League has a ton of former MLBers, including a few with fairly extensive experience like Lew Ford.

 

And apparently Anderson had never pitched in affiliated ball before? That has to be a factor too, I can't really see any scenario where he sneaks onto the MLB roster next spring.

[Hrbowski]

 

Byron Bauer......can I be next? No agent, I'll represent myself. All I ask for is the league minimum and a clean jersey with my name spelled correctly.

Brock Beauchamp!

[Hrbowski]

 

The Red Wings announced the following minor league signings:

 

LHP Buddy Boshers - a few games with Angels in 2013.

RHP Brandon Kintzler - Lots of games with the Brewers between 2010 and 2015... combined 135 games between 2013 and 2014. 

OF - Darin Mastroianni - He's back!

SS - Wilfredo Tovar - 9 games between 2013 and 2014 with the Mets. 24 year old who spent last season with Las Vegas (AAA Mets). 

I really like the Kintzler signing. Mastroianni will probably compete with Benson for the 4th outfielder spot.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I really like the Kintzler signing. Mastroianni will probably compete with Benson for the 4th outfielder spot.

Kintzler actually kind of worries me, reminds me of Boyer in that he might claim a spot with the help of his veteran status, but not offer much upside or future.

 

I hope Mastro and Benson are getting zero consideration for a MLB roster spot at this point, their time was 3 years ago.  If they want to pleasantly surprise us in AAA and earn their way back, that would be fine, but if 4th outfielder is a need for us, we should be aiming higher right now.

[nicksaviking]

 

I really like the Kintzler signing. Mastroianni will probably compete with Benson for the 4th outfielder spot.

 

I rarely have an issue with minor league signings, but looking at Kintzler's numbers and the fact that if he somehow made the team he'd actually LOWER the bullpens already historically low strikeout numbers makes me wonder what the thought process is here.

 

I'm a little worried about this one as his MLB experience reminds me of Blaine Boyer and Josh Roenicke, two guys who's veteran presence was just too enticing for the Twins to leave off the 25-man roster.

 

 

[Shane Wahl]

Holy hell and a half, Terry Ryan. You go into 2013 with Benson, Mastro, and Hicks . . . now you re-sign the first two, how the hell do you not keep the third on principle!?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Holy hell and a half, Terry Ryan. You go into 2013 with Benson, Mastro, and Hicks . . . now you re-sign the first two, how the hell do you not keep the third on principle!?

You saw how Hicks responded in 2013.  Clearly, the solution was to remove Hicks from the equation and try again.  

[sane09]

Holy hell and a half, Terry Ryan. You go into 2013 with Benson, Mastro, and Hicks . . . now you re-sign the first two, how the hell do you not keep the third on principle!?

Keyword = "2013" and nobody would trade JR Murphy for Benson, Mastro and Minnesota Lottery Tickets.

[sane09]

I rarely have an issue with minor league signings, but looking at Kintzler's numbers and the fact that if he somehow made the team he'd actually LOWER the bullpens already historically low strikeout numbers makes me wonder what the thought process is here.

Thought process = "$ instead of $$$"

[Seth Stohs]

 

Well, at least now we know who will be starting in CF if Buxton begins the year in Rochester. It will be like old times... Ahhh, the memories...

 

Danny Santana?

[Seth Stohs]

 

I rarely have an issue with minor league signings, but looking at Kintzler's numbers and the fact that if he somehow made the team he'd actually LOWER the bullpens already historically low strikeout numbers makes me wonder what the thought process is here.

 

I'm a little worried about this one as his MLB experience reminds me of Blaine Boyer and Josh Roenicke, two guys who's veteran presence was just too enticing for the Twins to leave off the 25-man roster.

 

I hate to keep saying this, but if the Twins sign guys to minor league contracts, and they turn out like Blaine Boyer, they should be absolutely thrilled. If they turn out like Casey Fien or Jared Burton, or even Sam Deduno, we should be thrilled. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

I hate to keep saying this, but if the Twins sign guys to minor league contracts, and they turn out like Blaine Boyer, they should be absolutely thrilled. If they turn out like Casey Fien or Jared Burton, or even Sam Deduno, we should be thrilled. 

 

And if they stink, but get to pitch more at higher levels or MLB because they have experience, holding younger players back?

[Otto von Ballpark]

I hate to keep saying this, but if the Twins sign guys to minor league contracts, and they turn out like Blaine Boyer, they should be absolutely thrilled. If they turn out like Casey Fien or Jared Burton, or even Sam Deduno, we should be thrilled.

I get what you are saying, almost any return on a minor league signing is a good return on investment, but only in isolation.

 

If they make it to MLB, they take up a roster spot. Did Deduno cause us to cast aside Hendriks without a bullpen audition? Or prevent Meyer or Gilmartin from getting a look in 2014? Did Boyer block Meyer or Rogers from MLB pen experience in 2015?

 

And putting it all together, even when Boyer had a decent 2015 season, what did that get us? Still had one of the worst pens in the league, and Boyer provided no hope or answers for the future.

[Seth Stohs]

 

I get what you are saying, almost any return on a minor league signing is a good return on investment, but only in isolation.

If they make it to MLB, they take up a roster spot. Did Deduno cause us to cast aside Hendriks without a bullpen audition? Or prevent Meyer or Gilmartin from getting a look in 2014? Did Boyer block Meyer or Rogers from MLB pen experience in 2015?

And putting it all together, even when Boyer had a decent 2015 season, what did that get us? Still had one of the worst pens in the league, and Boyer provided no hope or answers for the future.

 

I'd say No on all of those... 

 

And regarding the future, their concern in 2015 wasn't the future. It was the present and aside from about a two-week stretch, he got the job done. Wisely, they're looking to the future (2016) in the offseason and won't have Duensing and Boyer take spots. Those young guys will get a solid look. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'd say No on all of those...

 

And regarding the future, their concern in 2015 wasn't the future. It was the present and aside from about a two-week stretch, he got the job done. Wisely, they're looking to the future (2016) in the offseason and won't have Duensing and Boyer take spots. Those young guys will get a solid look.

You don't believe in opportunity cost?

 

How about, did the minor league invite for Boyer make it less likely to lure Madson or Lowe here on the same?

[Rosterman]

Yeah, I wonder if we are going to regret the loss of Hendricks. Of course, many of us were sad that Parmalee was let go. And some even cried over the trades of Eddie Morlan (instead of Rincon) and Billy Bullock. But you sign guys for depth. No one says they have to make it out of spring training.

[Thrylos]

Analysis of all 4 moves here.

I get what Seth is saying, but here is my closing statement from there, which I think echoes what a lot of people are feeling:

The Twins potentially filled their bullpen holes with the minor league signings of Dan Runzler, Brandon Kintzler and Buddy Boshers, and their 4th outfielder who can play Centerfield issue with those of Joe Benson and Darin Mastroianni, if everything works out in the best case scenario.  But that is a huge if, for a team that is competing...

[USAFChief]

 

I hate to keep saying this, but if the Twins sign guys to minor league contracts, and they turn out like Blaine Boyer, they should be absolutely thrilled. If they turn out like Casey Fien or Jared Burton, or even Sam Deduno, we should be thrilled. 

I disagree.

 

I don't get thrilled by the Twins getting minimum-level competence from cheap FA signings.  

 

It's been a long time, so it might be tough for some to remember, but I get thrilled by watching them win a WS.

 

IMO, Blaine Boyers and Sam Dedunos are part of the problem, not part of the solution, and should not be celebrated.

[Seth Stohs]

 

You don't believe in opportunity cost?

How about, did the minor league invite for Boyer make it less likely to lure Madson or Lowe here on the same?

 

I'm pretty sure that Ryan Madsen and Mark Lowe wouldn't have been worried about Blaine Boyer when they looked at the Twins spring training roster.

 

Sure, I believe in opportunity cost, but as it relates to Boyer, I don't know who he held back. JR Graham stuck. Pressly was up and doing pretty well til he got hurt. Maybe Michael Tonkin, but while Tonkin never got an extended look, he never did much with his opportunities either. 

 

When the Twins were losing 90 games, I believed in Opportunity Costs more than I did when they were winning 80 and not out of the playoff race until the final weekend.

 

In 2012-14, if Meyer had come up and pitched like he did in those two games in 2015, I would have been much more inclined to keep him up and say, go get 'em. 

[Seth Stohs]

 

Yeah, I wonder if we are going to regret the loss of Hendricks. Of course, many of us were sad that Parmalee was let go. And some even cried over the trades of Eddie Morlan (instead of Rincon) and Billy Bullock. But you sign guys for depth. No one says they have to make it out of spring training.

 

For every Hendriks that I was upset about the Twins giving up on who turns out (or at least has had one really nice year), I've probably got 6-8 that I was upset about them losing/trading (Morlan and Bullock were two of them). 

[Seth Stohs]

 

Analysis of all 4 moves here.

I get what Seth is saying, but here is my closing statement from there, which I think echoes what a lot of people are feeling:

The Twins potentially filled their bullpen holes with the minor league signings of Dan Runzler, Brandon Kintzler and Buddy Boshers, and their 4th outfielder who can play Centerfield issue with those of Joe Benson and Darin Mastroianni, if everything works out in the best case scenario.  But that is a huge if, for a team that is competing...

 

I'll add... if those are all that the Twins do, I will be annoyed UNLESS they would come out in spring training and hand a lefty bullpen job to Taylor Rogers and give Alex Meyer a job right away. And, I'd want them to say that Chargois will be up in June, along with Burdi... And, I'd want to know that Buxton will be the starting CF from day one. 

 

By themselves, these moves are all fine. If they are the moves to take care of the 4th OF job (which I don't think is a big deal, by the way, even if these guys are that) and for sure the LH RP job, then we can absolutely be frustrated.

[sane09]

 

And putting it all together, even when Boyer had a decent 2015 season, what did that get us? Still had one of the worst pens in the league, and Boyer provided no hope or answers for the future.

If someone pitches well in "one of the worst pens in the league, THAT GUY is not the reason it's "one of the worst pens in the league".  You keep whoever did well and replace the garbage with decent pitchers. No team has All-Stars-only on their 25-man-roster.

 

 

[USAFChief]

If someone pitches well in "one of the worst pens in the league, THAT GUY is not the reason it's "one of the worst pens in the league".  You keep whoever did well and replace the garbage with decent pitchers. No team has All-Stars-only on their 25-man-roster.

 

If Boyer "pitched well," shouldn't someone be campaigning to bring him back?

[sane09]

 

If Boyer "pitched well," shouldn't someone be campaigning to bring him back?

There are also $$ factors and promising RP's waiting their turn.

If the promising RP's fail, Boyer is a known quantity and may be brought back at that time.

In the meantime,  Duensing and Achter are gone; Thompson and Graham  may not return: and maybe that  will be enough cleansing.

[Seth Stohs]

 

If Boyer "pitched well," shouldn't someone be campaigning to bring him back?

 

Not if you don't think he can repeat it and now you've got some very intriguing prospects that are very close to ready, we hope.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'm pretty sure that Ryan Madsen and Mark Lowe wouldn't have been worried about Blaine Boyer when they looked at the Twins spring training roster.

 

 

You don't think MLB veterans considering minor league deals look at their potential competition before signing? I would think that is a pretty major factor in their decision.

 

How many such guys do the Twins bring in during a given winter? I would guess usually just one per role with any substantial major league record, and I don't think it's because the team doesn't want more, it's because the player wants a clearer opportunity to make the roster.

 

A guy like Lowe last winter absolutely might be discouraged from signing here by the presence of Boyer, who had a better 2014 and comparable MLB experience.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If someone pitches well in "one of the worst pens in the league, THAT GUY is not the reason it's "one of the worst pens in the league". You keep whoever did well and replace the garbage with decent pitchers. No team has All-Stars-only on their 25-man-roster.

 

 

Depends how you define "pitches well", I suppose. If everyone meets minimum acceptable standards of a "6th/7th inning guy" then your bullpen still may have issues, especially when those players can't easily be demoted or cut to make way for potentially better, higher leverage options.

[USAFChief]

There are also $$ factors and promising RP's waiting their turn.

If the promising RP's fail, Boyer is a known quantity and may be brought back at that time.

In the meantime,  Duensing and Achter are gone; Thompson and Graham  may not return: and maybe that  will be enough cleansing.

Boyer made $750k last year. I doubt there are $$ factors.

 

Promising relief pitchers may be waiting, that would not stop Ryan from bringing back Boyer.

 

And finally, with every team in the majors looking to bolster their bullpen, if Boyer is still sitting there, unsigned and available after the priming relief pitchers fail, I don't see that as an endorsement of Boyer, or a good reason to bring him back.

 

In any case, to bring this full circle, I don't see Boyer as a guy who "pitched well" in last year's pen, and I hope TR changes his methods and stops relying on these kinds of signings as plan A for bullpen help.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'll add... if those are all that the Twins do, I will be annoyed UNLESS they would come out in spring training and hand a lefty bullpen job to Taylor Rogers and give Alex Meyer a job right away.

Wouldn't you then wonder why these guys couldn't have joined the team late last season? How can they be Plan A entering 2016 when they weren't even worthy to claim a few of Boyer or Duensing's low leverage innings after roster expansions in 2015?

[Rosterman]

They brought in quite a few last year. Some like Brayan Villarreal and Wilfredo Ledesma didn't make it thru spring training. Some like Reynaldo Rodriguez, Marcus Knecht and Sharon Wilkerson are back this year. A couple made the major leagues: Brad Boyer, Doug Bernier, Eric Fryer, Shane Robinson, Aaron Thompson.

 

Other names that came from free agency were Carlos Paulino (back), Brock Peterson, Michael Bowden, Nick Anderson (still around) Omar Bencomo, Loek Van Mil (still here), Scott Atchison, Allan de san Miguel, Agnes Diaz, Jose Martinez, Wiklin Ramirez, Ryan Wheeler, Jose Vellz, Luke Westphal (still around) and Heiker Meneses.

 

And the Twins grabbed Greg Peavey in the Rule 5 minor league draft and he is still in the system.