Article: Twins Trade Aaron Hicks To Yankees For Catcher

[nytwinsfan]

 

I heard another rumor that the Twins could have semi-platooned Hicks with Arcia or eventually with Kepler to maximize the bejesus out of RF.

That's a fair criticism as far as it goes, and honestly probably the best criticism of this trade. But it also really is a larger criticism of the organization's (and coach's) unwillingness to platoon, because the reality is that the Twins were never going to and remain uninterested in platooning on a systematic basis. Given that as a background assumption, the trade makes some sense to me.  If I were running the show though, yes, I would have tried to trade Plouffe, Gibson/Milone, and some lesser prospects for a catcher, and kept Hicks as a platoon corner outfielder and backup for Buxton.

Edited November 12, 2015 by nytwinsfan

[Mike Sixel]

 

How do you guys feel that Hicks will do under the scrutiny of the NY media/fans?  I don't see this being a good fit for him.  I don't mind the trade, I think it opens the door for Sano at 3rd if we move Plouffe to left and then gives the DH to Park.  It makes sense from that aspect.

 

I don't know.....but I remember people saying Greinke could never succeed in a big market.....some baseball cultures appear to be good at helping players with confidence (I remember Maddon in TB saying "why wouldn't we expect him to keep being this good" about one of his players, while at the same time Gardy was saying "we shouldn't expect him to keep this up" about one of his, for example), I just don't think we know what will happen with Hicks.

 

I think Hicks can't hit from the left side.....but he can get on base via walk and play a good to very good CF if he can figure out routes.....but I am not convinced he is weak mentally like some here are.

[Dman]

Hmmm I thought the Twins were pursuing Murphy and not the Yankee's pursuing Hicks.  Shouldn't we have gotten a little bit more in this trade then?  I mean the Yankee's get a player that has All Star upside and we get a player with solid upside?  I am not sure I am down with that unless the Twins really believe this is likely Aaron's highest upside or close to it.

 

If the Twins were pursuing Murphy then I could see the slight overpay but not the other way around.  Couldn't the Twins get them to throw in some A ball lottery pick player? I am starting to feel like we didn't get full value here.

[TRex]

 

I heard another rumor that the Twins could have semi-platooned Hicks with Arcia or eventually with Kepler to maximize the bejesus out of RF.

I realize it is always a slippery slope when we try to psychoanalyze a player, but...

 

While it is one thing to say that Aaron Hicks would make a great platoon player in RF (and that was my dream), I do not see anything in Hick's personality that suggests that situation would be acceptable to him.

 

Painting CF's with broad brush strokes, they are the MLB equivalent of wide receivers. I highly doubt that someone who announces to his employer that he is giving up switch hitting would accept the yoke of 'platoon outfielder'... especially as the RH tandem.

 

This move says to me that Buxton will be starting in CF no matter what, and they felt they had no choice but to move Hicks.

 

I wish I could wish Hicks the best (I always think it is bad form when fans boo AJ), but as someone said before, I can't root for any Yankee (although I wouldn't boo Jeter either).

Edited November 12, 2015 by TRex

[Otto von Ballpark]

Fun with small sample sizes...

 

Murphy's 2015 line with .357 BABIP: .277/.327/.406, .734 OPS, 103 OPS+, 99 wRC+

 

adjusted to his career minor league BABIP (.296): .232/.287/.361, .648 OPS, ~78 OPS+, ~74 wRC+

 

with his career minor league BABIP, plus his most recent AAA K%: .245/.298/.374, .672 OPS, ~87 OPS, ~83 wRC+

 

(His AAA ISO was a little higher too, but I did not adjust his MLB ISO for simplicity since it was already respectable, he's moving to Target Field, and he's a right-handed non-pull hitter.  Similarly his most recent AAA BB% was already close too.)

 

League average for catchers in 2015 was 89 OPS+, 85 wRC+

 

So based on this back-of-the-envelope estimation, to get him to positional league average, we're probably going to have to cut his strikeouts.  Are the Twins the team to do that?  We don't have a great track record in that department... Hicks did it in 2015 but was already noted for his pitch selectivity...  will be interesting to see.

 

EDIT: corrected adjustment for most recent AAA K%

Edited November 12, 2015 by spycake

[Brock Beauchamp]

If we're talking about platooning Hicks, there's no reason not to be bullish on this trade.

 

A young cost controlled catcher > A short side platoon corner outfielder

 

The hope is that Hicks figures out RHP, not that he's a 150 PA platoon player. If you think he's a permanent platoon guy, Murphy is more valuable to the Twins.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

While it is one thing to say that Aaron Hicks would make a great platoon player in RF (and that was my dream), I do not see anything in Hick's personality that suggests that situation would be acceptable to him.

 

Painting CF's with broad brush strokes, they are the MLB equivalent of wide receivers. I highly doubt that someone who announces to his employer that he is giving up switch hitting would accept the yoke of 'platoon outfielder'... especially as the RH tandem.

Hicks started in a corner 41 times the past two seasons, out of 203 total starts in the field, or 20%.  Did we hear any complaint?

 

I could see him not liking a platoon situation, but I don't think any young player would like to be platooned, and frankly I don't think the Twins would like to platoon such a player either.

 

There are plenty of ways to justify this trade without resorting to armchair psychology.

[Kwak]

It has been both amusing and frustrating reading 200+ posts about this trade.  They fall into the boxes  "is this all [we] get?"  Really?  It's Aaron Hicks, get real. "Good! Now they start Buxton in CF."  You mean after the DSP quote about beginning in Rochester, and 2015's lackluster? Not to worry, Buxton will be given the CF job sometime  in 2016 simply because too much praise has already been said about Buxton to leave him in Rochester for all of 2016.  The price of catchers has gone up.  Consider what a part-timer like Herrmann fetched.  Also, despite all of the self-congratulatory about the Twins ability to draft and develop (egads!), they are far from being a "catcher factory".  

 

In short, they addressed a need at catcher--and perhaps for the next 4-5 years too.  The fact that Murphy won't be the next Johnny Bench--well neither was Mauer.  

 

There was a comment about an outfield of Sano, Rosario, and Arcia being brutal--yes, definitely--and in both implied definitions of brutal!

[Willihammer]

Murphy has 1 or maybe 2 options remaining, correct? Whereas they burned Hicks' final option last season. If that's the case the trade gives them some flexibility to bring in another catcher in 2016 and/or recall Buxton and Kepler more freely without exposing anyone to waivers or DL-ing anyone (like Hicks).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

"Good! Now they start Buxton in CF."  You mean after the DSP quote about beginning in Rochester, and 2015's lackluster?

To be fair, DSP's quote was probably based on Hicks still being on the roster.  DSP also said we would pursue AJ.  Circumstances change.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

If we're talking about platooning Hicks, there's no reason not to be bullish on this trade.

Really good point. But I saw Hicks more as the calm 'yin' of that hypothetical platoon who actually split time 50/50 despite being on the natural short end, getting some starts vs righties when Arcia needed some cooling off or the when the matchup looked better with Hicks in it, for whatever reason, and then of course the late inning subbing when necessary. When in center, Hicks did not have a great jump on balls behind him, but playing in front of the shorter right field fences mitigated that. Anyway, it's all beside the point now. The Twins have their reasons for doing this which we are not privy to.

[Willihammer]

Maybe they still plan to sign a FA catcher.

 

They lose control over the following catchers this winter:

 

Fryer

Pinto

Herrmann (traded)

Paulino

 

One or more of those could re-sign as minor league FA's but right now it looks like there's a hole in AAA that Murphy could fill nicely in 2016 for the first half at least.

[kab21]

I find it hilarious that people are criticizing JR Murphy and then thinking Turner is part of the solution at catcher for the Twins.  Murphy had a .733 MiLB OPS compared to turner's .674 (and sinking) OPS.  And Murphy debuted in the majors at almost the same age that Turner was debuting in the minors.  Murphy is 10x better than Turner.

 

I think many are overrating how easy it is to acquire a really good catcher.  Wieters is kind of expensive and costs a draft pick, Lucroy is going to cost top prospects, Norris might be available but he isn't a great hitter (pretty good) and he has a bad defensive reputation.

 

I think some are using catching defensive stats as absolute.  Especially for players with small samples.  JR has some pretty solid (or good) defensive scouting reports.  I feel much better with him behind the plate than platooning Suzuki with some random 35 yr old catcher.

 

He isn't an exciting player but he should solidify the position for quite awhile.

 

The simple fact is that the Twins had (still have) too many OF'ers and almost zero catching depth.  They might have given up a little more value in Hicks but I am not sure he will ever hit enough from the left side to be a full time starter.  I won't lose any sleep losing him.  He might make the Twins regret this trade but that can happen with any trade.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Murphy has 1 or maybe 2 options remaining, correct? Whereas they burned Hicks' final option last season. If that's the case the trade gives them some flexibility to bring in another catcher in 2016 and/or recall Buxton and Kepler more freely without exposing anyone to waivers or DL-ing anyone (like Hicks).

By my count, Murphy has 2 options remaining.  He was added to the roster in 2013, optioned in 2014, but spent all of 2015 in MLB.

 

But I hope this trade wasn't made with any idea of sending Murphy down, though.  He should be starting over Suzuki, or we should get an even better starting catcher and dump Suzuki.

 

In any case, I can't see all of out-of-options guys (Arcia, Santana, Pinto, and Tonkin, plus Robinson possibly) making the roster, much less sticking on it all year, meaning our roster shouldn't be that inflexible.  Vargas, Rosario, Polanco, and 9 pitchers still have options.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Maybe they still plan to sign a FA catcher.

 

They lose control over the following catchers this winter:

 

Fryer

Pinto

Herrmann (traded)

Paulino

 

One or more of those could re-sign as minor league FA's but right now it looks like there's a hole in AAA that Murphy could fill nicely in 2016 for the first half at least.

From the looks of it, they may not technically lose control over Pinto until next April if he doesn't make the 25-man roster, and by that point it may not be difficult to slip him through waivers.  He reports to the Venezuelan winter league this week, should be interesting to see where and how he plays.

 

Fryer has previously re-signed with us, I see no reason why he wouldn't again this winter.  Likewise Paulino signed here as a minor league free agent last winter.  If either doesn't re-sign for whatever reason, we can find another like them to fill any hole in AAA.

[dgwills]

Looks like I'm late to the party. I did read all the posts and nothing I'll add is new, but I'll put in my 2 cents anyways.

I really like this trade. I can understand than some people don't and it really depends on what you think of Hicks. I've never been to high on him. He does have a lot of tools so I can see why some really like him. To me he's just had one really good spring training and a good month last year. The rest of the time he has been just dominated at the plate. To me it looks like he just doesn't have the ability to adjust his approach when necessary. I think he's a fourth outfielder and likely out of baseball in a few years. Not that I want him to do badly, but that's the most likely outcome to me. Also outfield is not a position of scarcity in mlb and the Twins have many better options.

The Twins desperately needed a catcher. I really wanted Lucroy and would of been happy with Norris. I can only assume that those talks didn't go well due to the scarcity of the position. They probably tried for some of our elite prospects. The other options were terrible. You could pay big money and lose a 1st round draft pick for Matt Weiters who has tons of question marks going forward, no thanks. Every other option was old and played bad defense at a defense first position. 

The guy we got plays league average defense and is not a complete black hole at the plate. He's also young and can improve. Playing less will help Suzuki and stop his option from vesting. Maybe someone will come up from the farm system to compete, but it will be a while and they are not great prospects. Certainly nothing you can count on.

This also gives the Twins a lot more options in dealing with Plouffe. Now that there's not a huge problem at catcher they can take the best offer or keep him if they don't like any.

[spinowner]

 

I wish I could wish Hicks the best (I always think it is bad form when fans boo AJ), but as someone said before, I can't root for any Yankee (although I wouldn't boo Jeter either).

If I attend a game vs the Yankees I'll applaud Hicks at his first plate appearance and then hope he puts up an 0-fer.

[dougd]

In the long term, Hicks may become most famous for breaking Jim Kaat's record of matching his age both right-handed and left-handed in golf.

[sane]

In the long term, Hicks may become most famous for breaking Jim Kaat's record of matching his age both right-handed and left-handed in golf.

When you find out that something you have NEVER heard of is famous, you know that you have lost touch!

[DJL44]

Interesting that several commenters are saying essentially "not a bad trade but it wasn't my idea so I don't like it".

 

Span is going to get a multi-year deal and not from the Twins. There are veteran OF who could potentially help as bench players instead of re-signing Shane Robinson

 

Marlon Byrd

Shane Victorino

Will Venable

Drew Stubbs

Grady Sizemore

 

[sane]

I realize it is always a slippery slope when we try to psychoanalyze a player, but.

While it is one thing to say that Aaron Hicks would make a great platoon player in RF (and that was my dream), I do not see anything in Hick's personality that suggests that situation would be acceptable to him.

 

Painting CF's with broad brush strokes, they are the MLB equivalent of wide receivers.

I have known Hicks personally since he was a 15-yr-old, and you aren't even close!

He is calm, quiet, reserved and polite! He is NOT an arrogant diva like "Ocho-Cinquo, TO or the other NFL "Drama Queens"! Calling him an "MLB equivalent of wide receivers" is 100% WRONG! There is NO WAY that you could have met him and gotten that impression!

[Thegrin]

I am so happy to rid of Hicks.  and to get a catcher !!  I am doubly overjoyed. 

[dbminn]

I don't think this has been added yet... JR Murphy calling out Carlos Gomez. Things don't become clear until the last minute. Just for fun...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEtOPFbxVgE

 

 

[savvyspy]

This is a pretty typical Terry Ryan move. Create a problem (giving Suzuki a ridiculous extention) and try to solve it by dealing actual assets. Murphy is an upgrade of what we had which was the worst catching rotation in the majors and it was probably a sell high on Hicks. Its hard to get to wound up about it.

 

Are they a better team for it? Probably not.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The Twins did officially lose Fryer today, he signed a minor league deal with St. Louis.

[jimbo92107]

 

I was relatively high on Hicks going into this year.  Hopefully I'm wrong, but I fully expect to take a step offensively (was saying this before the trade) and this move look absolutely awful.

 

Digging into this guy a little more, I hate this move.  

When Hicks came up after his AAA demotion, he had changed two very important things. First, he had developed a better butt-turn and kick to load up his lower half. Second, he had developed a higher, more extreme bat twirl that I compared to the Cuban style. Those two changes allowed Hicks to unload with much more force through the hitting zone, plus they allowed him to check his swing better. Suddenly, he looked great.

 

Unfortunately, Hicks started drifting away from those changes later in the season, so his bat cooled off. My fear is that he will quickly re-learn that kick and that bat twirl with the Yankees, then start hitting like freakin' Dave Winfield for the next ten years...for the freakin' Yankees. 

 

On the other hand, it looks like we got a decent backup catcher.

[jimbo92107]

 

I also really like the thought of Rosario/Buxton/Kepler.  I want that to be the outfield of 2017.  But, what does the outfield look like if Buxton and Kepler start in AAA?  How about when Buxton gets hurt again (you know its coming)?  

 

The first two months of the season count in the standings as much as the last two.  The Darren Mastrionis and Clete Thomases of the world, which they always end up plugging in to avoid service time and whatever else, will have this team buried in the division before those guys get the chance to see the field.  What good is bringing in Murphy over Hermann, then?    

 

Is it wrong to trade Hicks?  No, absolutely not.  It probably has to be done eventually.  Is it wrong to trade Hicks right now, for this guy?  Yes, absolutely in my opinion.  

 

I can't figure out how meh-hitting back-up catcher with marginal defense = above average defensive CF with a little pop and speed on the bases.  I think they overpaid.  

Good topic to chew on, the Twins outfield in April 2016 may not include Buxton or Kepler, so who will be running around out there? My first guess is that Rosario is a given in LF, Danny Santana could be CF, with possibly Arcia in RF, platooning with somebody. Plouffe? Sano? Everybody??

 

This also brings up the lesser-known side of Miguel Sano, which is that the big kid is actually pretty fast, and his arm may well be as strong in the outfield as Hicks's. We see Sano's size and assume he's a lumbering giant like Kennys Vargas, but he's not. He's big, strong and athletic, a lot like a good NFL tight end. A guy like that can be a very good outfielder, and with that gun for an arm, some folks might regret going for second on him. If Sano conditions himself like a pro athlete, he should have less trouble with his Achilles. I'll admit I may never enjoy watching him dive for a fly ball, but Sano could be just fine in right field.

[stringer bell]

Agee that the sample size is too small to make conclusions about Murphy. Hicks isn't a starting center fielder for the Twins by midseason at the latest.

[DJL44]

I think people underestimate what it takes to maintain two swings as a switch hitter.

 

"Unfortunately, Hicks started drifting away from those changes later in the season, so his bat cooled off."

[Mike Sixel]

 

 

I think people underestimate what it takes to maintain two swings as a switch hitter.

 

"Unfortunately, Hicks started drifting away from those changes later in the season, so his bat cooled off."

 

 

Not some of us....some of us think he'll never be good, because of the SH