Twins Trade Chris Herrmann

[Thrylos]

 

Like to see the Twins get something, if even a looksee, then ust let players walk out the door (like Duensing...couldn't they trade Duensing last season, or this past summer, for something, anything)?

 

That's where Fien, and Milone should be.  They would not make the bullpen and rotation of any 2015 post-season team, so the Twins, should trade them and save themselves $8M in arbitration $ to plug some holes, like let's say a year of Soria...

[BK432]

Hermann had only 2 likely outcomes heading into 2016:

 

1. Catcher X and Suzuki break camp as the catchers, meaning Hermann would have been DFA and probably (but not necessarily) snagged by another team off waivers

 

2. Molitor, god forbid, keeps 3 catchers so that we don't lose Hermann at the start of the season.

 

Either option is much, much worse than what happened today. Were better trades available? Who knows? But this seems like a pretty good one and better than the two above alternatives for sure.

 

Best of luck to Hermann - hope he can play a role with the Diamondbacks next year and beyond. This is a good return for the Twins and, as others have said, helps to assure that the Twins will address the C position this offseason. Job well done, Twins.

[jsteve96]

If Hermann nets that kind of prospect I'm worried what the Twins will give up if they go for Lucroy

[diehardtwinsfan]

No kidding on Lucroy.  That said, Herrmann was the right move.  Pretty smart by Ryan.  Raise your hand if you predicted he'd be the first one traded.  I'd have bet money Milone or Plouffe would have been sent packing first, and if the rumors of Zimmerman are true, then Gibson as well with Nolasco becoming a very expensive reliever or traded for a bag of balls.

 

That said, I still think the Twins will go north with 3 catchers, as Pinto will make the roster (though at the very least, he can be a pretty nice bench bat when he's not catching/DHing) and I suspect they will go get someone.  Right now, I'm thinking that someone is probably Norris.  If Ryan can get either Norris or Lucroy without giving up the farm, then I'll take back everything I said about wanting Ryan to step down after this season. 

[DocBauer]

Kind of unfair to decide at this point someone is only a future bench player...(though that isn't bad, is necessary, and is probably accurate)...but even so, a very nice return indeed. Power and speed and a LH bat to boot? Nice!

 

I do have mixed emotions though, as I always felt Herrmann was going to be a valuable role player for the Twins; catcher, 1B, OF and possibly 3B with a decent stick and gapper power who could run OK. I do feel he's a better hitter than he has shown. Some guys can hit in the minors but just never can at the ML level. But he did spend a fair amount of time on the AAA-ML shuttle the last couple of years, and as Seth stated, it's hard to hit playing one day a week.

 

Yes the Twins will make a move for a catcher, but, does the move of Herrmann further reinforce the Twins belief in Turner and Garver?

[Reider]

 

In 2014 there was a game the Twins won that was all Hermann's fault. I think he had a career game.

He seemed a good guy. I wish him the best.

 

The potential upside of Palka looks significant. I like this trade.

There was also this game in 2013:

 

http://www.twinkietown.com/2013/7/24/4551848/twins-10-angels-3-chris-herrmann-grand-slam-Morneau-Mauer-babies

 

There sure are a lot of harsh comments about the guy. I know he's not the best in the league, but he had some great moments, like the one I posted above.

 

After watching guys like Carlos Gomez, David Ortiz etc. having success after leaving Minnesota, I've decided not to think too negatively about players just because they weren't all-stars in Minnesota.

 

I remember not to long ago Twins fans were talking trash about another former catcher by the name of Drew Butera. People said he wasn't good enough to play in the MLB, so he went out and helped the Royals win a World Series (as a back up, I know, but he still earned a ring. How many great players never even get the opportunity?). What an amazing accomplishment.

 

I know Hermann hasn't been the best catcher to ever play on the Twins, but I think he is a stand up person and played his best, while wearing a Twins uniform, which is all we could ask for. I thank Mr. Hermann for his service and wish him all the best in the future.

[Otwins]

While I like the trade for the Twins.  I can see it working for Arizona also. Herrmann versatility is his best asset which is more valuable to a National league team. Nice to have on your bench when you are in a position to double switch. Should play more often which may help his offense.

[beckmt]

One lottery ticket for a player that was not going to make this ballclub.   Good move

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't think he'll ever get that opportunity, and my assumption is I'm one of very few who believe Herrmann can hit decent in the big leagues. I mean, he's not looked at in the industry as an every day player. That's clear. I'm probably wrong, but we'll never know.

If you admit you are probably wrong, you probably don't believe it very strongly. And thus your assessment probably isn't that different than the consensus, I mean it is understood that every guy probably has a slim chance of that outcome.

 

To be fair, I too often feel aware of my wrongness in advance, but it was just weird seeing both sides of the issue advocated in successive paragraphs...

[gunnarthor]

This and the Butera trade make me convinced that ML quality catching is a lot harder to find than we fans think and ML teams value it more than we think they should.

[Shane Wahl]

 

I don't think he'll ever get that opportunity, and my assumption is I'm one of very few who believe Herrmann can hit decent in the big leagues. I mean, he's not looked at in the industry as an every day player. That's clear. I'm probably wrong, but we'll never know.

 

I'm pretty sure it came down to not getting everyday action too. I really like Herrmann, but this is a very good trade for the Twins.

[zchrz]

 

No kidding on Lucroy.  That said, Herrmann was the right move.  Pretty smart by Ryan.  Raise your hand if you predicted he'd be the first one traded.  I'd have bet money Milone or Plouffe would have been sent packing first, and if the rumors of Zimmerman are true, then Gibson as well with Nolasco becoming a very expensive reliever or traded for a bag of balls.

 

That said, I still think the Twins will go north with 3 catchers, as Pinto will make the roster (though at the very least, he can be a pretty nice bench bat when he's not catching/DHing) and I suspect they will go get someone.  Right now, I'm thinking that someone is probably Norris.  If Ryan can get either Norris or Lucroy without giving up the farm, then I'll take back everything I said about wanting Ryan to step down after this season. 

 

What Zimmerman rumors?  Haven't seen anything but I would be happy about that. 

[Jham]

 

If you admit you are probably wrong, you probably don't believe it very strongly. And thus your assessment probably isn't that different than the consensus, I mean it is understood that every guy probably has a slim chance of that outcome.

To be fair, I too often feel aware of my wrongness in advance, but it was just weird seeing both sides of the issue advocated in successive paragraphs...

 

Not to jump in on sides, but I didn't see Seth's comments as diametric opposites.  On the one hand, you have a pretty solid back up catcher who hit well enough in the minors, and almost not at all in the bigs.  Regardless of whether he could ever be league average with the Twins, the reality of the situation is that he would never get that chance.  He would be DFA'd either way.  Get something, or get nothing? 

 

Based on flashes of power, I think Hermann probably is better than he's shown, but he doesn't fit with a team who is looking to add a sure-fire starting catcher and already has a capable back-up.  As Seth stated, he could be wrong.  Twins can't afford to be wrong.  Hence we continue to look for lower risk options behind the plate and gain a roster spot and prospect out of the deal.  Thus you can very reasonably state that Hermann could be league avg. and still call this a good trade.

 

[Boom Boom]

Good to get something for Herrmann, who was never going to hit enough to be a starting catcher and whose receiving skills were questionable (Gardy used him almost exclusively in the outfield).

 

I bet the D-Backs are also glad they got something for Palka.

[drjim]

Did anyone explore the fact that Dave Stewart's wife is part of Chris Herrmann's representation? Or that Stewart used to be Herrmann's agent before becoming GM?

[TNLooky2015]

 

There was also this game in 2013:

 

http://www.twinkietown.com/2013/7/24/4551848/twins-10-angels-3-chris-herrmann-grand-slam-Morneau-Mauer-babies

 

There sure are a lot of harsh comments about the guy. I know he's not the best in the league, but he had some great moments, like the one I posted above.

 

After watching guys like Carlos Gomez, David Ortiz etc. having success after leaving Minnesota, I've decided not to think too negatively about players just because they weren't all-stars in Minnesota.

 

I remember not to long ago Twins fans were talking trash about another former catcher by the name of Drew Butera. People said he wasn't good enough to play in the MLB, so he went out and helped the Royals win a World Series (as a back up, I know, but he still earned a ring. How many great players never even get the opportunity?). What an amazing accomplishment.

 

I know Hermann hasn't been the best catcher to ever play on the Twins, but I think he is a stand up person and played his best, while wearing a Twins uniform, which is all we could ask for. I thank Mr. Hermann for his service and wish him all the best in the future.

Agreed

[Brock Beauchamp]

Any time you can move a fringe 40 man backup guy for a player in the low minors, that's a win. Kick the can down the road and clear roster space.

 

Nice move.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

This and the Butera trade make me convinced that ML quality catching is a lot harder to find than we fans think and ML teams value it more than we think they should.

 

I agree, it was always hyperbole to say that Butera/Herrmann were completely worthless.

 

However, on the flip side, I think we might be over-rating their trade returns.  So far, Butera and Herrmann have netted:

 

- Miguel Sulbaran, who was young but not highly regarded, and has since proven skeptics right

- Matt Long, 27 year old org filler type

- Ryan Jackson, 27 year old org filler type

- and now Palka, 24 year old 1B/OF yet to appear above A-ball, Arizona's #29 prospect, probably a C/C+ grade by Sickels

 

And even flipping the young Sulbaran quickly only netted Nunez, a DFA'd, soon-to-be 27 year old career 88 OPS+ infielder widely suspected as being unable to defensively handle the infield.

 

To me, their modest trade returns seem pretty much in line with their modest roles/contributions in MLB.

[jimmer]

Good like to Chris.  Hope he succeeds big time.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Thus you can very reasonably state that Hermann could be league avg. and still call this a good trade.

That statement is reasonable, but it just felt like Seth was overstating both sides at the same time: bordering "would" rather than "could" be a league average with opportunity, and yet calling this a "tremendous" trade.  That seemed incongruous.

 

Ultimately, though, I think his estimation of Herrmann or the trade isn't all that different from most of ours here, despite the words he chose (and my likely misreading of them ).

[Otto von Ballpark]

Herrmann once had a very interesting profile, walking almost as much as he struck out in his first taste of AA back in 2011, but not only has that fallen off the table in his sporadic MLB play (which is understandable), it also trended down as he repeated AA and in his first two tastes of AAA:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9284&position=C/OF

 

If everyday MLB PA is what he needs, he's got an interesting problem in Arizona with Welington Castillo in place (a guy I wish would have blocked him in Minnesota in 2015).

[ashbury]

This and the Butera trade make me convinced that ML quality catching is a lot harder to find than we fans think and ML teams value it more than we think they should.

Up the middle and starting pitching, is vastly more valuable than corner players and relief pitching. You can usually find a trade partner if you're willing to give up the former and willing to accept the latter.

 

Not to say I don't like the trade. Getting something, in exchange for someone you would have to DFA, is good. And the deal fills a hole, of sorts - first base at our high-A affiliate was manned the most by 25 year old Bryan Haar who OPS'ed .640.

 

But as I said elsewhere the other day, corner players and relievers represent to me a kind of "path of least resistance".

[diehardtwinsfan]

Here's the writeup over at minor league ball

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/11/11/9713056/who-is-the-twins-newest-prospect-daniel-palka

 

Definitely a lottery ticket.  If you compared him to one of our own prospects Adam Walker, he has slightly less power and a bit more speed/plate discipline, but he's pretty much the same type of prospect.  He's boom or bust.  I like the move given that Herrmann is (as they put it) a 'this is what he is' type guy.