Twins Trade Chris Herrmann

[bird]

 

AJ would be a great fit. Lucroy an expensive version of AJ..

 

 

I fear AJ as a cheap version of Suzuki in 2016.

[Vanimal46]

Completely on board with this trade. Herrmann didn't have a future on this club. Looks like he may have a backup job lined up in Atlanta. Good for him and wish him well on his future.

[NoCryingInBaseball]

But what I really like about the deal is, it means Hermann isn't a fallback C option for the Twins next yr. it helps me believe C will be addressed through trade or FA.

 

I am in agreement that the signing tells me that Ryan & Company are in talks with another Catcher for a possible platoon. I am hoping for a Lefty/Righty combo at Catcher!

[dougkoebernick]

Nice job Terry Ryan.

[Winston Smith]

Seems odd that Ryan would short himself catchers when he is likely trying to trade for one. Doesn't that take leverage away in any trade/signing talks? Unless, of course, they are already done.

 

Lots of talk here of him gaining leverage in any Plouffe trade with the Sano to the OF talk. Doesn't this do the opposite?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Seems odd that Ryan would short himself catchers when he is likely trying to trade for one. Doesn't that take leverage away in any trade/signing talks? Unless, of course, they are already done.

 

Lots of talk here of him gaining leverage in any Plouffe trade with the Sano to the OF talk. Doesn't this do the opposite?

I don't think having Chris Herrmann on your roster adds leverage, so I can't see how removing him would take any leverage away.

[Thrylos]

 

Fine deal, but keep in mind he was a 23 (now 24) year old in the hitters paradise California League.

 

He was in his second full pro season and has exactly the development path (same levels) with Walker who was drafted on the same round a season before Palko.  Interestingly, they are both in the AFL right now...

[SwainZag]

 

I don't think having Chris Herrmann on your roster adds leverage, so I can't see how removing him would take any leverage away.

 

Soooo what are you saying is......w/ Hermann, leverage, can get Lucroy for Duensing. w/o Herrmann, no leverage, Lucroy goes for Kepler, Stewert AND Duensing? 

 

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Seth Stohs]

 

Didn't mean he was progressing slowly, just that he wasn't young for the level.

 

And he's probably not a future starter. He's a role-type player, so it doesn't matter if he gets up at 24, 26 or 27,

[Otto von Ballpark]

He was in his second full pro season and has exactly the development path (same levels) with Walker who was drafted on the same round a season before Palko. Interestingly, they are both in the AFL right now...

Again, I wasn't critiquing his path, just noting his age (and more importantly his league) to take into consideration with his numbers.

[Seth Stohs]

 

That age caveat is a big one but I like bringing some additional catching prospect options into the fold. I wonder two things :

1) Does this suggest Twins are close to signing a catcher?
2) Hiw does Palka compare to the other catchers in the organization? Like Turner?

 

Compared to catchers in the Twins organization, he's really terrible defensively, but he hits well...

[Seth Stohs]

 

That age caveat is a big one but I like bringing some additional catching prospect options into the fold. I wonder two things :

1) Does this suggest Twins are close to signing a catcher?
2) Hiw does Palka compare to the other catchers in the organization? Like Turner?

 

 

Also, I don't think it suggests anything is imminent. Herrmann is out of options. With Pinto on the 40 man (and out of options), Herrmann was unlikely to mkae the team. And they certainly will bring in a free agent catcher so he for sure won't make the team. So, doing this is great.

 

Like you mentioned elsewhere, Chris Herrmann is fantastic to talk to. The final weekend, I spent almost a half an hour one one one with him. He opened up a lot and it was good. I am hoping to touch base with him soon, but my sense is that as much as he has enjoyed and appreciated his time with the Twins organization, he has to be thrilled by this. It's another opportunity.

 

I've always felt that if he was given a half season of 4-5 games per week as a catcher, he could be a league-average offensive catcher. There is nothing more difficult than getting one start a week (or sometimes even less frequently) and trying to hit big league pitching. 

 

He's a terrific athlete and I certainly wish him well.

 

At the same time, I think this is a tremendous trade for Terry Ryan and the Twins. Herrmann wasn't going to stick on the roster and they got a guy with some potential. Very good trade.

[TNLooky2015]

So does that mean Palka changes teams in the AFL or goes home and gets ready for 2016?

Team League AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
SRR AFL -------.304 17 69 12 21 4 - 0 - 2 ---14 --31 --7--12-- 4 --1 --.364 --.449 --.813

[Otto von Ballpark]

I've always felt that if he was given a half season of 4-5 games per week as a catcher, he could be a league-average offensive catcher. There is nothing more difficult than getting one start a week (or sometimes even less frequently) and trying to hit big league pitching.

 

He's a terrific athlete and I certainly wish him well.

 

At the same time, I think this is a tremendous trade for Terry Ryan and the Twins. Herrmann wasn't going to stick on the roster and they got a guy with some potential. Very good trade.

Isn't that a contradiction? If Herrmann could be a league average starting catcher, how can it be a "tremendous trade" to flip him for a low minors 1B/OF? In fact, if Herrmann really had that imminent potential, it would be almost criminal to park him behind Suzuki for the season, then dump him in favor of Pinto, AJ, whomever.

 

I gotta think your league-average starter projection for him is driven by your respect for him rather than his demonstrated ability.

[Thrylos]

 

So does that mean Palka changes teams in the AFL or goes home and gets ready for 2016?

Team League AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
SRR AFL -------.304 17 69 12 21 4 - 0 - 2 ---14 --31 --7--12-- 4 --1 --.364 --.449 --.813

 

Stays with the same team but will wear a Twins' jersey.

[stringer bell]

So, to summarize, the Twins traded catcher/outfielder Chris Herrmann to Arizona for OF/1B Daniel Palka.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Isn't that a contradiction? If Herrmann could be a league average starting catcher, how can it be a "tremendous trade" to flip him for a low minors 1B/OF? In fact, if Herrmann really had that imminent potential, it would be almost criminal to park him behind Suzuki for the season, then dump him in favor of Pinto, AJ, whomever.

I gotta think your league-average starter projection for him is driven by your respect for him rather than his demonstrated ability.

 

I don't think it's really contradictory. I think sometimes it's just about opportunity and perception. He put up decent offensive numbers for a catcher in the minor leagues, but the Twins had Mauer and then they signed Suzuki, adn then they re-signed Suzuki. He hasn't had an opportunity to play as a starter, and probably shoudln't have. 

 

However, at the end of the day, he's out of options, hasn't had a chance to prove anything, has struggled mightily with the bat in limited MLB chances and they got a guy who could be a big leaguer in exchange for him. 

[stringer bell]

 

I don't think it's really contradictory. I think sometimes it's just about opportunity and perception. He put up decent offensive numbers for a catcher in the minor leagues, but the Twins had Mauer and then they signed Suzuki, adn then they re-signed Suzuki. He hasn't had an opportunity to play as a starter, and probably shoudln't have. 

 

However, at the end of the day, he's out of options, hasn't had a chance to prove anything, has struggled mightily with the bat in limited MLB chances and they got a guy who could be a big leaguer in exchange for him. 

Also, they cleared a spot on the 40-man. I think that is big, especially since Herrmann would have to have been DFAed to be sent to the minors.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't think it's really contradictory. I think sometimes it's just about opportunity and perception. He put up decent offensive numbers for a catcher in the minor leagues, but the Twins had Mauer and then they signed Suzuki, adn then they re-signed Suzuki. He hasn't had an opportunity to play as a starter, and probably shoudln't have.

 

However, at the end of the day, he's out of options, hasn't had a chance to prove anything, has struggled mightily with the bat in limited MLB chances and they got a guy who could be a big leaguer in exchange for him.

He probably shouldn't have started over Suzuki at any point in 2015, yet you think he could be a league average starting catcher if allowed to start? That's got to be a contradiction -- a league average starting catcher is a very valuable thing, and something Suzuki has fallen well short of 3 out of 4 years.

 

This team absolutely needs a league average starting catcher, they don't need Arizona's #29 prospect at 1B/OF starting in AA next year. If Herrmann was likely to be the former with opportunity, it could not be tremendous to flip him for the latter.

 

Again, want to emphasize that I don't think Herrmann is likely to achieve that level, just trying to separate projections from well-wishes here...

[Old Twins Cap]

 

Seems odd that Ryan would short himself catchers when he is likely trying to trade for one. Doesn't that take leverage away in any trade/signing talks? Unless, of course, they are already done.

Lots of talk here of him gaining leverage in any Plouffe trade with the Sano to the OF talk. Doesn't this do the opposite?

 

If the guys on this board were smart enough to be a GM, they likely would be one by now. 

 

GMs play chess, not poker. 

 

There is no leverage by saying or doing any particular thing. 

 

GMs don't care **** about how the OTHER TEAM's situation is taking shape.  They look out for their own.

 

They get judged on results, of their team.  Not on how astutely they surmised what the Twins might be thinking.

[Thrylos]

I had to check it out, just out of curiosity:

 

Last season Palka hit 29 HRs and stole 24 bases.  Do you remember the last Twins' minor leaguer who stole 24 or more bases and hit 29 or more HRs in the same season?

[Seth Stohs]

 

Also, they cleared a spot on the 40-man. I think that is big, especially since Herrmann would have to have been DFAed to be sent to the minors.

 

And we all know they'll be adding a catcher this offseason.

[Seth Stohs]

 

I had to check it out, just out of curiosity:

 

Last season Palka hit 29 HRs and stole 24 bases.  Do you remember the last Twins' minor leaguer who stole 24 or more bases and hit 29 or more HRs in the same season?

 

I don't feel like looking, but I'm thinking maybe a Mike Ryan and Michael Restovich maybe?

[Thrylos]

 

I don't feel like looking, but I'm thinking maybe a Mike Ryan and Michael Restovich maybe?

 

Nobody ever did

 

The closest were:

Todd Walker 21 HRs and 23 SB 1995 AA Hardware City Rock Cats
Garry Gaetti 22 HRs and 24 SB 1980 A Wisconsin Rapids Twins

 

pretty decent company methinks.  And he is a LHB

 

[Seth Stohs]

 

He probably shouldn't have started over Suzuki at any point in 2015, yet you think he could be a league average starting catcher if allowed to start? That's got to be a contradiction -- a league average starting catcher is a very valuable thing, and something Suzuki has fallen well short of 3 out of 4 years.

This team absolutely needs a league average starting catcher, they don't need Arizona's #29 prospect at 1B/OF starting in AA next year. If Herrmann was likely to be the former with opportunity, it could not be tremendous to flip him for the latter.

Again, want to emphasize that I don't think Herrmann is likely to achieve that level, just trying to separate projections from well-wishes here...

 

I don't think he'll ever get that opportunity, and my assumption is I'm one of very few who believe Herrmann can hit decent in the big leagues. I mean, he's not looked at in the industry as an every day player. That's clear. I'm probably wrong, but we'll never know.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Nobody ever did

 

The closest were:

Todd Walker 21 HRs and 23 SB 1995 AA Hardware City Rock Cats
Garry Gaetti 22 HRs and 24 SB 1980 A Wisconsin Rapids Twins

 

pretty decent company methinks.  And he is a LHB

 

I figured maybe it could have happened when their AAA affiliate was in the PCL, but not likely in the International League or the Eastern League, and that many homers is fairly rare in the lower levels. Tougher to hit in the Florida State League than in the California League. 

[Thrylos]

 

I figured maybe it could have happened when their AAA affiliate was in the PCL, but not likely in the International League or the Eastern League, and that many homers is fairly rare in the lower levels. Tougher to hit in the Florida State League than in the California League. 

 

That includes the years the Twins had Visalia as an affiliate; he did it in Visalia.  Benson and Kubel were my first thoughts...

 

[spinowner]

 

GMs play chess, not poker. 

 

This metaphor is spot on.

[big dog]

Love the trade.  Gotta say, so far this off-season has been pretty darn entertaining!

[Rosterman]

Herrmann would not break camp with the Twins.

 

This guy will have to be a 40-man add next season (and probably protected from the minor league portion of the draft). But the Twins will have to do something with him next year. One of those organization depth trades. Make him an issue for the Twins weather to keep or not beyond 2016 (will he also be a minor league free agent after next season if not put on the 40-man). 

 

Like to see the Twins get something, if even a looksee, then ust let players walk out the door (like Duensing...couldn't they trade Duensing last season, or this past summer, for something, anything)?