Wolfson: Sano to get a look in OF

[Parker Hageman]

 

Teams aren't stupid......really, all this cloak and dagger stuff is silliness, either on their part, or ours. No one buys this is PR stuff, or if they do, then it provides no leverage. Really......this is as bad as "sell low"......

 

Not true at all. This happens all the time. In 2014 the Nationals "hid" the extent of Ryan Zimmerman's injury so that teams wouldn't know how desperate they were for help at the deadline. Mike Rizzo said in the book "Intangibles" that he felt other teams would not ask as much in return had they known Zimmerman's injury would basically be season-ending. Rizzo said he felt that he was able to talk the Indians down in 2014 from wanting a solid pitching prospect to the 24-year-old light hitting Zach Walters when acquiring Asdrubel Cabrera.

 

Things like that happen all the time.  

 

Now, I'm not saying this is what the Twins are in fact doing but, if the intent was to trade Plouffe this offseason, sending Sano into the outfield over winter ball is a good way to convey the message that they are not looking just to unload Plouffe to open a spot. 

[Mike Sixel]

I don't see hiding an injury and moving Sano to the OF as the same thing at all. Teams know the Twins have 4-6 OF. They know they have Plouffe and Sano. Teams will offer stuff for Plouffe, or not, based on what they think is a fair price, and they know Ryan won't give him away. It's not how 18 years of Ryan has worked.

 

I just don't buy that this kind of thing really creates leverage at all. we can disagree on this, just like some people think teams make decisions on the most recent year, and selling low is a huge thing still, in this new information age in baseball. Teams can assign differing values, but that's not the same thing at all.....

[TheLeviathan]

Boy are people committed to the belief that Sano can't play there.  I just don't get it.

 

And I get this even less.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Boy are people committed to the belief that Sano can't play there.  I just don't get it.

 

And I get this even less.

 

Is there a typo in the first sentence about there/third?

 

Has anyone on this thread said he can't play 3B right now?

[Parker Hageman]

I don't see hiding an injury and moving Sano to the OF as the same thing at all.

 

 

It is and it isn't. Unlike the Nationals who needed to avoid overpaying, the Twins, in that scenario, would be hoping to leverage for more (even if it is a slight amount). Pretty simple. Again, I'm not suggesting this is what the Twins **ARE** doing but it is what they should do if they are going into the offseason with intent of trading Plouffe.

 

I don't think we can disagree on this concept as it has happened throughout baseball -- it's basic negotiating -- but we can agree that there is no way of actually knowing what the Twins' intent actually is.

 

 

[DaveW]

Sano should be playing 3B until he can't play 3B any more. Moving Sano to the OF to accommodate a decidedly average player like Plouffe is ludicrous. Of course moving Plouffe and then using that open roster spot to sign a big hitter requires a bit of creativity, not this orgs MO unfortunately.

[Mike Sixel]

I am arguing that it doesn't work very well in the modern era, since no one believes anything any GM or manager says, and they have more data at their disposal than ever. Just because it worked in the past, doesn't mean it will work in the future.

 

So, I think we can disagree about whether or not we can disagree.......

 

Or, maybe you are saying the Twins are doing this to gain leverage, thinking that still works.....which would be, imo, and indictment on where they are in terms of understanding the proliferation of information today compared to even 10 years ago in MLB.

 

I'm saying they aren't really gaining any leverage here.....even if they are trying to.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Is there a typo in the first sentence about there/third?

 

Has anyone on this thread said he can't play 3B right now?

 

Whenever this issue is broached people try to argue "versatility" is a good thing or that the team needs to "find him a position".

 

His position is 3B and if he's good at it and hits like that he doesn't need one damn bit of versatility.  

[jsteve96]

my thoughts on this are not good for the Twins. i don't see any good in the defense Miguel has in the outfield along with outfielders getting injured more often. i want to keep this guy healthy and in the lineup. 1st/3rd/DH only places i put a guy his size to keep healthy

[Thrylos]

The one thing that the Twins should had learned from 2014 should had been not to put catchers, shortstops, infielders, first basemen etc at the outfield.    I thought that that concept was dead and done when Gardy was shown the door. 

 

That comment about Sano at OF makes sense only under one scenario:  It is Ryan's/Molitor's way of publicly saying "we don't have to trade Plouffe" to try to get as much as they can for him.   If that's the case, more power to them, if not...

[Rosterman]

Does that make Arcia expendable...but where does he get to play (DH) to build some trade value. Will Hicks be the odd man out? Will the Twins pay Trevor Plouffe 3 years and $30 million to hang around? Is that a better choice than trading him and keeping right field open for Kepler and/or Walker. Do the Twins believe in Rosario. When will Buxton be ready. Or do you bite the bullet and just make Sano a DH-for-life, your David Ortiz, and get him under a longterm contract (like 10-12 years) fast and soon. If he DH's, then you have to make the choice between Arcia/Hicks in the near future, and deal away Walker in the longterm, and hope Kepler is your future Gene L:arkin...switching to first abse at sometime and staying before he becomes expensive. And, again, Rosario is the question mark. Do you gamble on him being a longterm Twin? Sometimes this desire of the Twins to have players play multiple positions just doesn't seem...right.

[DocBauer]

I just find this argument to be ridiculous.

 

IF we had ANOTHER Sano that had arrived, or was arriving, then OK, got to make room for both of them somewhere, somehow. But other than MAYBE growing out of the position ONE DAY, all scouting reports say he can play 3B. What little I have seen of him at 3B, his size is not an issue, and he is actually quite fluid. Will he be a gold glover right off the bat? Of course not. But he will be OK, and get better and better, just like all the other 3B the Twins have had for the past 30 years starting with Gaetti. (in this reference)

 

Rosario, Buxton, Hicks, Kepler, Arcia and Walker...with top young OF talent like that arrived and arriving and available, why on earth would you put Sano at a position that he hasn't even played before? Like Leviathan said, with his ability to play 3B and hit, he has all the versatility necessary.

[Monkeypaws]

If Cuddy can do it, why not Sano?

[TNLooky2015]

If we really want to MASH next year - visualize this:  Randomly rotate between 3 positions (OF / 3B / & DH)  SANO & PLOUFFE @ 3rd / WALKER & SANO in OF / and ALL THREE AT DH  That could account for 80+ HRs next year alone and 270+ RBI.  That's alot of runs.  Strikeouts be damned - That's a lot of runs

 

Talk about Mash Brothers...........

[jimbo92107]

Sano in the outfield, God please no...

[kab21]

While I am a pessimist about Sano's defense at 3B (good enough but still likely below avg) I am concerned that Sano will look like Delmon in the OF.  Delmon had good straight line speed but he started slowly, turned like an ocean liner and didn't go back very well.

 

I am not nearly as sold on the depth of the OF next season as everyone.  I expect at least 2 of the previously listed players to disappoint or be injured.  Being able to stick Sano in the OF for a few days here or there isn't a bad idea if the Twins are planning on keeping Plouffe (I think they will).

[Mike Sixel]

I don't get why people assume he can't play the OF.....

 

I get the argument for not playing, but I don't get the assumption he can't do it. I really don't.

 

I wouldn't move him, but "the Twins know more about this than we do, so we should trust them" or something like that......

[tobi0040]

The concern I have is if we move a 22 year old Sano to LF he will probably stay there for his career until he eventually moves to 1B or DH.

 

If Plouffe has two more years here that is a really short sided move.  That assumes that we think Sano can play 3B.  They say he can but frankly none of us really knows what they think.  But if he can play 3B, moving him for 1-2 years of Plouffe is not a smart move

[tobi0040]

 

While I am a pessimist about Sano's defense at 3B (good enough but still likely below avg) I am concerned that Sano will look like Delmon in the OF.  Delmon had good straight line speed but he started slowly, turned like an ocean liner and didn't go back very well.

 

I am not nearly as sold on the depth of the OF next season as everyone.  I expect at least 2 of the previously listed players to disappoint or be injured.  Being able to stick Sano in the OF for a few days here or there isn't a bad idea if the Twins are planning on keeping Plouffe (I think they will).

 

I think Sano is a much better athelete than Delmon.  IMO, Delmon also didn't give a rip which was his biggest problem. 

 

 

[dgwills]

This better be a bluff as other posters already mentioned. Moves like this irritate me on my low level softball team. For a professional team it's just ridiculous. If the Twins are serious I think we should start an ongoing thread on why all of the management needs to be fired.

[BK432]

Good idea, bad idea, intent....really kind of impossible to know at all right now. But I'm trying to think....when was the last time the Twins used an offseason to get a guy reps at a secondary position in order have more lineup/defensive flexibility (or even more surprising, possibly improving trade leverage)?

 

I honestly don't remember it happening anytime recently with a MLBer save for when necessary (see Mauer, Joe). Yes, Danny Santana jumped into CF but that was on the fly during the season. We've been clamoring for them to do this with various guys but maybe not since Trevor Plouffe prior to 2012 have we seen this. So in terms of applause for creativity, I'm giving it up. Give yourself more potential options to get the best bats into the lineup without hurting your defense.

 

It may not work out, but it shouldn't hurt to at least try.

[ashbury]

Sano is currently not an MLB adequate third baseman. He has some strengths (comes in on a slow roller and throws smartly while off-balance), and some glaring weaknesses (erratic on hard smashes to either side, not good at tracking popups).

 

I believe he can develop into an adequate third baseman, probably by the end of 2016 (just in time for playoffs? I hope I hope I hope). Could even develop into a good one later on. Hopefully it's important to him, otherwise he'll be 1B-bound before we know it.

 

The problem with a move to an outfield corner is that his current weaknesses will also show up there. Cans of corn, he'll handle. Coming in on a single through the infield and firing a bullet to the cutoff man preventing an extra base, great. Tracking a deep fly ball, I'm not confident about at all (I'll trot out a favorite TK line, "let's keep the 360s to a minimum"), nor a line drive that's not hit right at him. And a booboo in RF turns an out or a single into the batter-runner standing on third.

 

I don't expect this experiment in winter ball to lead to anything. I'm perplexed they are sacrificing some more time at 3B to engage in it.

[Platoon]

Per Bernadino: http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/11/06/twinsights-behold-the-miguel-sano-experiment-in-left-field/

I find the whole idea maddening and predictable all at once. The maddening part is self explanatory. The predictable part is the Twins just now getting him reps in the OF in an attempt to hedge the supposedly soft market for Plouffe because he is arbitration eligible, and has only one year of control left. Silly me, I thought those numbers were all spelled out in the players agreements?

[HitInAPinch]

I think it's a smart idea to at least explore it.

 

Molitor was pretty clear in the article that he's checking it out as an option, because he doesn't want Sano as a DH for even 40 games and that Plouffe is no longer an option for the OF.

[Platoon]

I think it's a smart idea to at least explore it.

 

Molitor was pretty clear in the article that he's checking it out as an option, because he doesn't want Sano as a DH for even 40 games and that Plouffe is no longer an option for the OF.

He was also clear in one article that Sano can catch routine fly balls! As can I. But had trouble approaching the fence, routes, and other minor intricacies of the OF. This team spent several years bemoaning Arcias defense, regardless of whether he was hitting or not. And this is their next move? I don't know if the Twins are playing poker here, or not. But it certainly appears that it's yet another case of Ryan not being able to part ways with a veteran favorite.

[SwainZag]

 

He was also clear in one article that Sano can catch routine fly balls! As can I. But had trouble approaching the fence, routes, and other minor intricacies of the OF. This team spent several years bemoaning Arcias defense, regardless of whether he was hitting or not. And this is their next move? I don't know if the Twins are playing poker here, or not. But it certainly appears that it's yet another case of Ryan not being able to part ways with a veteran favorite.

 

Molitor said they want to explore it a little.  He also said he may never play an inning there.  While I would rather see him getting reps at 3B, I think a lot of comments in this thread are incredibly over the top and you would think Molly came out and said that Sano will be the starting LF next season.  A few games in winter ball in LF is not the end of the world.