Article: Do The Twins Need To Acquire An Ace?

[Platoon]

Ryan's professed love of innings pitched every five days all season has merit. The problem is that it is the criteria for the 3-5 spots in the rotation, not the #1. That guy has to be the guy that will be a stopper, any day, home and away, against any team. Needless to say that also equates to innings pitched per year, etc, therfore Ryan is partially correct in his definition. But, his definition seems to substitute the word "most". That omission also fits nicely with the Twins Way, buy in the middle, trade in the middle, and sell in the middle. This guarantees your mistakes will be nominal. Sadly it also guarantees your successes will be the same. I used to think the teams lack of spending was strictly based on not wanting to spend money. Lately I have come to believe it's more Ryan's vision of successful management.

[diehardtwinsfan]

There's no reasonable room for an ace and no one is going to take a package of Plouffe, Milone, and Nolasco to get one.  The Twins need to trade all of these guys and I'll be quite honestly surprised if more than one is in a different uniform to start 2016.  We have a nice promising young corps of pitchers with Gibson, Duffey, and May as well as Hughes and Santana who can be pretty solid number 2s (and possibly pitch like that ace for a stretch).  Not to mention that there's Berrios waiting in the wings.  Go get help in the pen.  Get help at catcher.  Find a decent fall back plan in the OF if Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Hicks, and Arcia all do not pan out, but do not go mortgage the farm/future to add to that log jam of pitchers. 

[Shane Wahl]

Berrios will be an "ace" (even though I dislike the term because it makes for weird thinking).

 

That said, I do think the Twins should make a run at Greinke.

 

I mean . . . good lord . . . people around these parts are willing to toss $60 million at declining Matt Weiters, why not double that for Greinke and just trade for a younger catcher (signing Greinke would make Gibson easily expendable to go with Plouffe, Polanco, and Stewart)?

 

 

[Shane Wahl]

 

There's no reasonable room for an ace and no one is going to take a package of Plouffe, Milone, and Nolasco to get one.  The Twins need to trade all of these guys and I'll be quite honestly surprised if more than one is in a different uniform to start 2016.  We have a nice promising young corps of pitchers with Gibson, Duffey, and May as well as Hughes and Santana who can be pretty solid number 2s (and possibly pitch like that ace for a stretch).  Not to mention that there's Berrios waiting in the wings.  Go get help in the pen.  Get help at catcher.  Find a decent fall back plan in the OF if Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Hicks, and Arcia all do not pan out, but do not go mortgage the farm/future to add to that log jam of pitchers. 

 

I think this is generally right. I have mentioned Greinke simply because he would likely really consider a comparable deal from the Twins. Gibson is then a tradeable asset to go along with Plouffe and Milone (Nolasco trade isn't happening).

 

I have come to the conclusion that the Twins should be converting some of their next line of starters into relievers because A: there is little room in the rotation, B: starting pitchers are simply better than relievers, for the most part, C: a reliever with three plus pitches can be dominant, and D: I think spending money on relievers given all of this is dumb (Jepsen is *not* going to work out nicely in 2016).

 

I know that *clearly* Taylor Rogers is a starter in this system right now (AFL???) but I can imagine him being dominant out of the bullpen, for instance. Burdi, Peterson, Reed, Rogers, and Perkins looks like an interesting playoff bullpen to me.

[Loosey]

Defining an ace is hard.  But in my opinion the Twins have only had 1 in my adult life.  Johan Santana.  When I think of an ace I think of a guy who I have no doubt is going to go out and win.  Every time Johan was on the mount I just assumed the Twins would win because he would shut down whoever they were playing.  I never once thought, he gives them a chance to win, I assumed they were going to win and because of him.

 

For a brief period that was also Francisco Liriano in 2006 too, but sustained it was Johan.

[Loosey]

Seth mentioned how to the Twins can get to $25M of room to potentially sign a guy for that salary.  What I am about to say is based a lot on hindsight but also is based on planning and building the team for the future.

 

2 years ago the Twins were, bad.  Really bad.  They then went out and signed 2 decent (at the time) starting pitchers in Hughes and Nolasco for $9M and $12M.  Then last year they signed Santana for $13.5M  ($34.5M Total)

 

Most likely Ryan knew the Team was not going to be competitive in 2014 and most thought 2015 was going to be another 90 loss season.  2016 was always the year in which the team was going to hopefully be able to start to be competitive again. 

 

If Ryan had that thought process wouldn't it have made sense to sign some lesser priced pitchers in 2014 for shorter term deals so for this coming year instead of having $34M locked up in 3 mid rotation pitchers the team could now go out and get an true ace type pitcher and have some money left over to build a pen and surround the Ace in the rotation with guys like Gibson, May and Berrios and Duffey.

 

I know it's very much a hind sight thought and there is no guarantee you can get an ace.  But looking at it this way wouldn't the team be in a great situation. 

 

The other side of this is the Twins wouldn't sign a high priced guy because that $34 was never been earmarked on 3 mid rotation guys since the signings never happened or they would do the same type of thing in 2016 and just sign 3 Mike Leakes and Tim Stauffer.

 

 

[kab21]

signing some lower priced pitchers instead of Nolasco, Hughes and Santana means more Pelfrey and Correia level pitchers.  And I think 2 of the 3 pitchers (hughes and Santana) will work out very well for the Twins.  Nolasco got injured and has been dreadful.  It happens.

 

Getting an ace doesn't have to happen this offseason but if the Twins want to be anything more than an underdog in every playoff series then they will need to address this at some point or hope that Berrios is that pitcher.  Yes, the playoffs are a crapshoot but they are more of a longshot when you are an underdog to a more talented team in 3 series.  This is what plagued the Twins in the 2000's.  They made the playoffs but they were typically considered one of the least talented teams in the playoffs (my hopes were high in 2006 though).  It isn't impossible to win this way but it is really hard.

[sploorp]

Acquiring an ace in the off season with the idea of making it to the post season is like buying lottery tickets thinking it's going to make you rich.  The most likely scenario for both is you're going to spend a lot of money and end up disappointed.

 

I like the way the staff is coming along.  I also think it's going to get better with experience, an improving defense and a better bullpen.

 

And let's not forget some of the arms in the pipeline ready to make a splash.

 

If the team finds itself in the thick of things and seems like it's postseason bound an ace makes much more sense.  There will undoubtedly be plenty of teams looking to dump salary and a trade should be much more feasible without giving away the house.

 

Can we go back to worrying about catcher and the bullpen, please?

[DocBauer]

 

Defining an ace is hard.  But in my opinion the Twins have only had 1 in my adult life.  Johan Santana.  When I think of an ace I think of a guy who I have no doubt is going to go out and win.  Every time Johan was on the mount I just assumed the Twins would win because he would shut down whoever they were playing.  I never once thought, he gives them a chance to win, I assumed they were going to win and because of him.

 

For a brief period that was also Francisco Liriano in 2006 too, but sustained it was Johan.

I guess it depends on how old you are Loosey.  LOL

 

I would include Morris for his one year. Viola was an ace. Blyleven, even the second time around, was pretty close to being a second ace. I'd say Radke was for a year or two. (debatable I know)

[DocBauer]

 

Berrios will be an "ace" (even though I dislike the term because it makes for weird thinking).

 

 

While I agree with you, it's sooo hard to just say he will be that "ace" pitcher. The pressure (presumably) and expectations are such that I don't know if you can ever win that debate. (the is he or isn't he truly an "ace")

 

What if it takes 2 years? 3? What if he he's an ace quality every other year? But yeah...I just have a really, really good feeling about Berrios, his stuff, his work ethic, and his determination and mental makeup.

 

Interesting point, I have often compared him to Pedro Martinez, who also was not tall, though I'd speculate Berrios is bulkier. But also, Cueto, a proposed ace pitcher, while bulkier at a listed 220lbs, also stands only 5' 11". So just another couple examples of an ace pitcher not being over 6 foot.