Article: The End Of The Road

[gil4]

 

The bible literally sayings NOTHING about Gay marriage

You are right, but you are misleading by omission.  

 

It does say plenty about marriage.  When giving instructions for marriage (as opposed to reporting the condition), it's always one man and one woman.  It also says plenty about homosexual behavior.

 

Edit - I just saw the "stop the conversation here" post.  If you feel the need to clean up the mess, please clean it all up (including the "No, it just makes said person a bigoted person")  (Of course, Nick really asked for the mess in the article, and the other side of the discussion has been pretty restrained.)

[bombo]

Kirby Puckett was my favorite player of all time. After the news came out of his transgressions, I stopped thinking of him as more than my favorite player of all time. I can acknowledge that he wasn't a great person. That doesn't change what he is as a teammate, friend, all those things. Puckett remains my favorite player of all time.

 

Torii Hunter has had a tremendous baseball career. He has put up great numbers. It's OK to say that he's one's favorite player while not agreeing with his personal beliefs. It's also OK to acknowledge that he was a great leader and teammate.

 

Exactly and most people are able to separate athletes' performance on the field and their personal lives. There's a reason when he's announced at all these anniversary celebrations, he typically receives the loudest cheers.

 

Similarly when they start to bring back Hunter in the future for different appearances, he'll be the one receiving the biggest standing ovation.

[bombo]

Arcia also has produced for his other two seasons in the majors as well, it isn't a stretch at all to say it's reasonable to think he can at least duplicate Hunter's numbers this year.

 

I guess the biggest question is whether or not the Twins will have enough patience with him to find out.

[Mike Sixel]

the interesting discussion is about how you can/cannot root for people you disagree with.....the other stuff, not so much on this thread, imo.

 

Where does one draw the line? For some, Torii crossed the line, for others he did not. For some, Adrian Peterson or Greg Hardy crossed the line, for others, they did not. For some, there is no line an athlete can apparently cross and they'd still root form them. I don't get those last people at all.

 

As for the bible, it used to be against the law to divorce, because the bible....should we go back to that?

[jimmer]

 

As for the bible, it used to be against the law to divorce, because the bible....should we go back to that?

There's a lot of things allowed and not allowed in the bible that I imagine people would have real issues with today :-)

Edited October 27, 2015 by jimmer

[DaveW]

 

 

There's a lot of things allowed in the bible that I imagine people would have real issues with today :-)

+1

/eats shellfish

 

[bombo]

the interesting discussion is about how you can/cannot root for people you disagree with.....the other stuff, not so much on this thread, imo.Where does one draw the line? For some, Torii crossed the line, for others he did not. For some, Adrian Peterson or Greg Hardy crossed the line, for others, they did not. For some, there is no line an athlete can apparently cross and they'd still root form them. I don't get those last people at all.As for the bible, it used to be against the law to divorce, because the bible....should we go back to that?

You're starting an extremely slippery slope if you're going to stop cheering for any athletes that have ever said anything you don't agree with. You may be best off just refraining from watching sports if that's the case.

[Vanimal46]

Torii received all of these standing ovations because he was a good baseball player. Nothing more than that. I doubt he has any cult following purely from his opinions off the field.

 

It will be interesting to see how Torii will be viewed in a public light now that his playing days are behind him. The circumstances are different, but we've seen Curt Schilling go from a WS hero to a zero now that his opinions are the main focus...

[DaveW]

 

the interesting discussion is about how you can/cannot root for people you disagree with.....the other stuff, not so much on this thread, imo.

Where does one draw the line? For some, Torii crossed the line, for others he did not. For some, Adrian Peterson or Greg Hardy crossed the line, for others, they did not. For some, there is no line an athlete can apparently cross and they'd still root form them. I don't get those last people at all.

As for the bible, it used to be against the law to divorce, because the bible....should we go back to that?

Yeah, I can't in good conscience ever root for Peterson directly again (I tossed his jersey and autographed ball he signed for me in college in the trash)

 

I do however still root for the Vikings overall to win, so nothing makes me happier then to see Zach Line getting those touchdowns when the ball is at the one yard line instead of AP.

 

 

Hunter, I don't agree with him, but whatever, I still had no real qualms rooting for him on the field, I do get a little "miffed" about all the off the field leadership stuff. (calling Latin American players "Fake Blacks" can't have endeared him to many of his latin teammates, and fwiw I play in wood bat league that is at least 50% Dominican players, not many Hunter fans out there among them to be honest. And Hunters overall comments on that topic are some of the most ignorant I have heard)

 

 

 

[Dman]

I was one of the people against signing Hunter this year.  In the end my feeling is that the signing could not have worked out much better than it did.  It was really a great way for Hunter to go out. He should and will be remembered for the great baseball player that he was.  If you want to pick your time I think Hunter is doing his right.

 

On the other hand I think he can still play and should play for a couple more years.  Not with the Twins but on another team in a diminished role.  He really didn't look completely done to me. I guess 19 years is maybe hanging on long enough.

 

For me I love all the things about Hunter even the controversial statements as they make him unique.  You don;t have to agree with anything that he said outside the game. he was just willing to say what he thought and I can respect that.

 

In the End I will miss Mr. Hunter and I am happy he will retire as a Twin.

[gil4]

 

I'm going to miss Torii Hunter.  And I think the Twins will, too.  Yes, the years have been catching up on him, but think about this: 

 

Who else on the current roster will...

Provide 22 HR's?  Tied for 2nd on the team

Provide clutch hitting?

Provide vocal leadership?

Provide a real face of the franchise?

 

I'm of the belief the Twins can use a guy like Torii Hunter next year.  Who will be that guy?

Torii's production showed signs of teetering on the edge of the cliff last year.  While he put together a couple of hot streaks, I think he made the call.

 

I liked him as a player.  I thought the Angels were crazy for signing him for as much as they paid him when he left the Twins, but I was wrong.  I was conflicted about him coming back, but I'm glad he did.

 

I agreed with his position on gay marriage.  I disagreed with his "no gay teammate in the locker room" comment.  I disagreed with some of his comments on race.  None of that changed my opinion on him as a member of the Twins. 

[jimmer]

 

You're starting an extremely slippery slope if you're going to stop cheering for any athletes that have ever said anything you don't agree with. You may be best off just refraining from watching sports if that's the case.

Mike already said this to you like an hour ago 'Isn't that what I said? I still rooted for him to do well on the Twins.....doesn't mean I have to like his opinions or him. I looked beyond them while he was on the field.'

 

Obviously, he was rooting for Hunter and doesn't seem close to stopping the cheering for a player because he said something he didn't agree with.

[DaveW]

 

Torii received all of these standing ovations because he was a good baseball player. Nothing more than that. I doubt he has any cult following purely from his opinions off the field.

It will be interesting to see how Torii will be viewed in a public light now that his playing days are behind him. The circumstances are different, but we've seen Curt Schilling go from a WS hero to a zero now that his opinions are the main focus...

Oh man, Schilling, what a nut!

I would think that Hunter would be smarter then Schilling to be honest. Best case scenario is that now that he is away from the game every day perhaps Hunter has some time to meet some gay couples, gay ballplayers and can grow as a person.

[bombo]

Torii received all of these standing ovations because he was a good baseball player. Nothing more than that. I doubt he has any cult following purely from his opinions off the field.

It will be interesting to see how Torii will be viewed in a public light now that his playing days are behind him. The circumstances are different, but we've seen Curt Schilling go from a WS hero to a zero now that his opinions are the main focus...

I'd bet any amount of money the ovation he receives isn't any different because of this.

[Mike Sixel]

You're starting an extremely slippery slope if you're going to stop cheering for any athletes that have ever said anything you don't agree with. You may be best off just refraining from watching sports if that's the case.

Slippery slope....classic logical fallacy. That aside, I do watch less and less sports the more I realize I probably don't like some of the players as people (among many other reasons, but that is one).

 

Again, there is a line, imo, in who I am willing to cheer for. I would never root for Hernandez, for example. I actively want Peterson off the Vikings, but I still am happy when he runs well, but I NEVER cheer for him, ever.

[Don Walcott]

Can we still enjoy Mel Gibson movies or Ted Nugent's music?  I think it's an interesting question raised about Torii.  I had a really hard time reading things and believing things that were written about Kirby.  When you are a lifelong fan, and you have favorites on your favorite team, you'd rather overlook or ignore the flaws in your favorite players.

 

I think it is amazing progress that people generally are against Torii's religious condemnation of homosexuality.  Let's just not take it too far and condemn Torii for having an opinion most of us disagree with.

 

I still have fond memories of Torii as a player.  As a Clemente Award nominee several times, it seems he must have done some really good things as well.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't recall the last Mel Gibson movie I saw. Maybe I'm not thinking about it right, but hasn't his career pretty much tanked now? I think his behavior absolutely is a partial cause of that.

 

I think it is partially an age thing, as I've gotten older, I don't overlook as much. Overlooking, imo, is part of why people keep doing bad things, we enable them (Peterson, Hardy, et. al.).

[Hrbowski]

Hunter was one of the best Twins ever, and should make it to the the HOF.

[Mike Sixel]

Hunter was one of the best Twins ever, and should make it to the the HOF.

The MLB HOF? No shot.

[REPETE]

"Hunter has said some things off the field that have really rubbed me the wrong way. And while I'm very much accustomed to setting aside the personal dispositions and quirks of professional athletes in order to enjoy them as performers, some of his outspoken remarks regarding gay marriage and homosexuality in general have been off-putting to me on a rather visceral level."
 

On the field, Hunter was the consummate Pro (except when he picked up the ball he was just hit with and threw it back at the pitcher).  On the field, no one could say anything bad about Torii.  He came to play!

Off the field, Hunter was outspoken.  Everyone loves that, right up to the point the outspoken person is asked about a subject important to you (the general public "you", not said author), and their views don't mesh with yours.  It doesn't make them necessarily wrong, it's just they disagree.  

We have to remember, these are athletes with an outlet most people don't have (mainstream media), and if they're asked a tough question, and they answer it, we have to respect that answer, regardless of whether it's the answer we agree or disagree with.  Otherwise, we end up with a bunch of Joe Mauer/Crash Davis watered down cliches.  I'd much rather hear an opinion, even if it disagrees with mine.  At least it gives us something to talk about during 162 games, other than "We need relief pitchers".  

 

That said, I couldn't agree more, that Torii came back to his roots for his final season, and performed much better than most could have hoped for.  I hope there's room in the organization for him!

[ashbury]

Hunter was one of the best Twins ever, and should make it to the the HOF.

The Twins HoF or the other one somewhere in upstate NY?

[Mike Sixel]

The median WAR for the watered down veterans' committee choices is higher than Torii's WAR, let alone for the "normal" voters, which is in the upper 50s (Torii has lower 40s).

[ashbury]

I love how you mods deleted my post calling out DaveW "bigot" comment.  This guy calls everyone that doesn't agree with him about Tori's views on gay marriage a bigot and gets away with it.  Pleaseee.....hypocrits 

Sorry, but posts at this site accusing another poster of being a bigot just beg to be removed.

 

I should add, discussion of TD policy and/or moderator actions belongs more properly in the About MinnCentric forum area, rather than further disrupt topical discussions.

 

_{^{/ you also essentially Godwin-ed yourself in the same post. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law}}

[Hrbowski]

 

The Twins HoF or the other one somewhere in upstate NY?

Twins.

[ashbury]

Twins.

Easily.

[Mike Sixel]

Twins.

Ah, this I agree with, sir. Easily, as posted above.

[ashbury]

Ah, this I agree with, sir. Easily, as posted above.

A simple Like would have sufficed, sir.

[bombo]

Slippery slope....classic logical fallacy. That aside, I do watch less and less sports the more I realize I probably don't like some of the players as people (among many other reasons, but that is one).Again, there is a line, imo, in who I am willing to cheer for. I would never root for Hernandez, for example. I actively want Peterson off the Vikings, but I still am happy when he runs well, but I NEVER cheer for him, ever.

 

Well we'll agree to disagree then as I'll cheer for Peterson.

 

Hernandez is terrible comparison because it wasn't publicly known that he had murdered multiple people when he was playing.

[Mike Sixel]

A simple Like would have sufficed, sir.

Begging will get you nowhere....

[Mike Sixel]

Well we'll agree to disagree then as I'll cheer for Peterson. Hernandez is terrible comparison because it wasn't publicly known that he had murdered multiple people when he was playing.

Would you root for Hernandez now? If not, welcome to the club of people that will draw a line.