2015-16 Wolves thread

[TheLeviathan]

With Dieng's play lately, are we back to looking for the right wing player? A big SF that can shoot perhaps or am I reading into Dieng's play too much?

[stringer bell]

I haven't commented on this thread, but I find it very ironic that the very day that Berrero and Trent Tucker dissed Ricky Rubio because of his poor shooting that he would hit a game-winning three.

 

Here's my take: Rubio has two offensive deficiencies. He's still a poor outside shooter and he is a poor finisher. If he is given as much room as he had on yesterday's game-winner, he'll make a lot of shots. That still isn't going to make him a better finisher. The rest of Rubio's game is more than good enough. He needs to be adequate only outside shooting and finishing to be an asset and he's pretty close to that.

[bluechipper]

 

With Dieng's play lately, are we back to looking for the right wing player? A big SF that can shoot perhaps or am I reading into Dieng's play too much?

Depth is still an issue up front, as I'm losing faith in Belly. That's why I like Henry Ellenson in the draft. I think that Gorgui can work as a PF, although I know some worry about him trying to guard stretch 4's.

 

I think a SF who can play PF in spots (especially when other teams go with a Durant, Carmelo, etc. at the 4) would be the ideal target. The Wolves have no depth on the wing besides Shabazz, and he is a big liability on defense.

[FattCrapps]

Rubio: 13 pts, 8 reb, 3 stl, 12 ast, 0 turnovers while playing solid D against Westbrook (8/19 shooting with 5 turnovers)

 

There was a stat a few weeks back that stated the Wolves were +40 with Rubio on the court, and -250 when he was off the court.  I'm sure it's even more ridiculous since then.  He's a top flight defender who can rebound and create for his teammates.  He's 5th in the league in RPM at his position.

 

Great player.  We could use some more of them.  

 

 

 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

I've been critical of Rubio's shooting too.  More than anything I wish he could finish a damn layup.  It's frustrating to watch him pass up a lay-up for a contested shot from the perimeter.

 

But he's an invaluable player for this team, that's clear.

[kab21]

Is Dieng actually playing PF?  Is distinguishing between PF and C a futile distinction?

 

I think the Wolves can almost look for the best player available in the draft/FA.  Ideal pickup would be a larger wing player that can shoot 3's and play D.

 

I am not sure how you can have any sort of opinion on Bjelica.  He has been injured when he has played and has played a total of 37 minutes in a month and a half.  He has the skillset that works really well for the Wolves and in the current NBA.

[TheLeviathan]

Bjelica seems like he needs some NBA coaching for a bit and he can be an effective second team scorer.   But I do think that puts a priority on having a good backup at center that can defend the rim.  Bjelica and Shabazz just aren't good enough as a combo.

 

I like the best player available idea, but I think shooting has to be a priority.

[bluechipper]

 

Is Dieng actually playing PF?  Is distinguishing between PF and C a futile distinction?

 

I think the Wolves can almost look for the best player available in the draft/FA.  Ideal pickup would be a larger wing player that can shoot 3's and play D.

 

I am not sure how you can have any sort of opinion on Bjelica.  He has been injured when he has played and has played a total of 37 minutes in a month and a half.  He has the skillset that works really well for the Wolves and in the current NBA.

Dieng is guarding the other team's more perimeter oriented frontcourt player, so yes he is the PF right now.

 

Maybe Belly is just adjusting to the speed of the NBA, but it's hard to expect a 27 year old to greatly improve enough defensively to be a starter (I think he could be a good bench guy though). He's kind of like Shabazz in that they lack an appropriate basketball IQ level to be good defenders.

[bluechipper]

BTW, I just saw that Bjelica's got two nicknames listed on basketball-reference: Belly and Professor Big Shots. That's pretty cool.

[FattCrapps]

3&D guys are the biggest commodity in the game today.  Batum will be getting the max, which sucks from the Wolves point of view, because they could certainly use a few of them (or even one)

 

But I heard Batum loves MPLS and it's bike lanes, so maybe we're good to go.  

[kab21]

 

Dieng is guarding the other team's more perimeter oriented frontcourt player, so yes he is the PF right now.

 

Maybe Belly is just adjusting to the speed of the NBA, but it's hard to expect a 27 year old to greatly improve enough defensively to be a starter (I think he could be a good bench guy though). He's kind of like Shabazz in that they lack an appropriate basketball IQ level to be good defenders.

I would expect Towns to be the anchor/center defensively and match up against the interior player but on offense it seems that he would be used in more of a perimeter role.  

 

And the bigger point - Is it worth it to distinguish between PF and C unless one of those guys is a classic C (Howard, Jordan, Whiteside, Drummond, etc...) that has no perimeter skills?  The Wolves seem to playing a lineup with 2 guys that function as perimeter bigs.  And truly Towns is almost like a SF/wing on offense that happens to be 7 feet tall and can guard the opposing big man.

 

It is great to see the the 5 most talented players on the floor together.  Despite the losses I am more confident in this team becoming a 50 win team within 2 years and could conceive them being a true contender.  They still need to fill out a strong 8-9 man rotation but they have an awesome core of young players.

[ALessKosherScott]

IMHO part of the problem right now is that while Dieng and Towns are playing great together, Garnett brings a guy who can defend traditional power forwards. And they're kind of missing that with him hurt. It was Towns chasing Teltovic out to the three-point line for the game-winning shot, and part of the problem was Towns and Dieng matched up well against Len and Chandler. But Teltovic, not so much. 

 

The bright side is they're going to have a lot of open roster spots to find the right bench fit in the offseason.

[bluechipper]

 

IMHO part of the problem right now is that while Dieng and Towns are playing great together, Garnett brings a guy who can defend traditional power forwards. And they're kind of missing that with him hurt. It was Towns chasing Teltovic out to the three-point line for the game-winning shot, and part of the problem was Towns and Dieng matched up well against Len and Chandler. But Teltovic, not so much. 

 

The bright side is they're going to have a lot of open roster spots to find the right bench fit in the offseason.

Actually they were playing small and had Wiggins on him late in the game, KAT just switched onto him on the game winner. They should've stayed big instead of playing Shabazz anyway, as they got killed on the glass in the fourth. Nice coaching job once again, Sam Mitchell.

 

I agree with you in that they probably need a true 4 though. Go get Henry Ellenson please.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

Actually they were playing small and had Wiggins on him late in the game, KAT just switched onto him on the game winner. They should've stayed big instead of playing Shabazz anyway, as the they got killed on the glass in the fourth. Nice coaching job once again, Sam Mitchell.

 

I agree with you in that they probably need a true 4 though. Go get Henry Ellenson please.

 

I think it's a little bit of a chicken/egg problem. They sat Dieng because stretch-fours have been killing him defensively. But they need Dieng because he's also the team's best four. I think drafting Ellenson is fine, same with drafting Hield or Murrary. But no one you draft at 5 is going to do much more than run with the 2s next year. IMHO, the question is still how do you replace Garnett's defensive impact if retires?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Great thread. I thought the wolves looked really competitive tonight, but just didn't get the bounces at the end. GSW now 63-7 which is ungodly. 

[bluechipper]

I found a funny article today that argues for Nikola Jokic winning the ROY despite averaging 10ppg and 6.5rpg because he has the highest rookie RPM.

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/15042377/is-karl-anthony-towns-kristaps-porzingis-really-rookie-year-nba

 

I know Jokic is good, but sometimes people take these advanced stats way too far.

[kab21]

Seems like Hield is a safe pick if the Wolves stay at #5 and any true PF would be a reach.  But that means that Hield and Lavine can't play together ever and Wiggins would have to guard 3's all of the time.  Is it possible for the Wolves to trade/package the pick for something that can help.

The team actually looks kind of good right now with Lavine blowing up in addition to Towns and Wiggins.  And rubio is finishing the season really strong.  They just need to fill out the 6th-8th man rotation spots or preferably find a starting wing or PF.

 

Seems like signing Batum, Parsons or Barnes to a max contract would be perfect for them but it seems unlikely that any of them come to MN.

[bluechipper]

 

Seems like Hield is a safe pick if the Wolves stay at #5 and any true PF would be a reach.  But that means that Hield and Lavine can't play together ever and Wiggins would have to guard 3's all of the time.  Is it possible for the Wolves to trade/package the pick for something that can help.

The team actually looks kind of good right now with Lavine blowing up in addition to Towns and Wiggins.  And rubio is finishing the season really strong.  They just need to fill out the 6th-8th man rotation spots or preferably find a starting wing or PF.

 

Seems like signing Batum, Parsons or Barnes to a max contract would be perfect for them but it seems unlikely that any of them come to MN.

I kind of disagree with you about the draft part. In his latest mock, Chad Ford has Dragan Bender going #3 and Henry Ellenson going to the Wolves at 5.

 

I'm loving watching Lavine play right now, so I'm not sure how I feel about adding a pure sg in Hield.

 

Another max free agent guy is Al Horford, who is a Dominican national teammate with KAT. Also, besides the weather, Minnesota seems like a decent destination for a free agent who wants to be a part of the next Oklahoma City type of run (I hope). 

[kab21]

I think Horford is even less likely to come to MN but PF is an even bigger need than a wing.  

 

I haven't formed an opinion of Bender.  Ellenson might be a good fit but I have a natural prejudice against white (non EU) bigs although that Kevin Love guy worked out.

 

My main goal this offseason would be to add a PF that could rotate with Dieng and Towns at the 4/5 or to add a wing that could rotate with Wiggins and Lavine at the 2/3.  Hield is a nice fit as a 15+ minute guy backing up Lavine and then Shabazz gets 15 minutes backing up Wiggins.  The Wolves biggest need (other than experience/development) is a 2nd team that won't get killed out there.

[bluechipper]

Zach Lavine is getting pretty ridiculous. Those two clutch 3's in the first overtime last night were plays that star players make. Overall, a very nice win on the road against a healthy Wizards team that needs to win to make the playoffs.

[TheLeviathan]

That was a fun game to watch, the first unit is clearly something that is coming together in a special way.

 

But we badly need some help on the second unit.

[kab21]

 

That was a fun game to watch, the first unit is clearly something that is coming together in a special way.

 

But we badly need some help on the second unit.

Yes but one draft pick and one solid FA signing could completely change the 2nd unit.  Of course there is a good chance that the Wolves end up with a project pick and a has been FA and neither help much next year.

 

 

[DaveW]

Hield would make a boatload of sense for this team. You can never have enough pure shooters, go buy some size in FA.

 

You can't pass on a guy like Hield (pure shooter) just because you have LaVine. There would be plenty of minutes to go around.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yes but one draft pick and one solid FA signing could completely change the 2nd unit.  Of course there is a good chance that the Wolves end up with a project pick and a has been FA and neither help much next year.

 

Having a second unit problem is far better than not even having a competent first unit, so I'm with you.

 

What the Wolves need is something that should be attainable.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

I haven't formed an opinion of Bender.  Ellenson might be a good fit but I have a natural prejudice against white (non EU) bigs although that Kevin Love guy worked out.

 

 

 

I think for me, Ellenson fits the bill becasue he's the second best rebounding power forward in the draft (behind Simmons). But the fact that he put up .143 Win Shares/48 against a relatively weak schedule scares me. To put it into perspective, Love put up .391 WS/48 in his one college season. Jared Sullinger put up a consistent .283 and .282 WS/48. Or to put it into words, there's a good chance Ellenson is a poor man's, poor man's Kevin Love.

 

On the flip side, you draft Hield to be a scorer on the second unit next year. You buy an early second round pick to bring in a point guard like Payton II for those moments you need a slashing, defensive backup point guard (with Tyus playing when you need a shooter). You make a run at a defensive three on the cheap like Snell or (ack!) Wes Johnson and a defense only 5 like Biyombo or Plumlee. You talk Garnett into one more year hoping he can give you the same 15 great defensive minutes a game next year. You hope Bjelica can cut his fouls or Payne takes a step forward. Pekovic retires and comes off the cap in February, so you've got a ton of cap money and a more alluring team for the better free agent class of 2017.

 

How exciting is that?

[stringer bell]

I haven't watched the Wolves much this year, but I've checked the box scores and progress has been made. The first five can score--Wiggins, Levine, and KAT are really young and really good--and Rubio and Gorgy are excellent complimentary players. There doesn't seem to be any consistent defense on the team including the first unit.

 

The second unit? Really weak at point guard and one-dimensional otherwise, although I've seen a few sparks from Mohammed. It is obvious they need defensive help first and foremost and the stats say they really could use a shooter. Also, the players they are using now are really young. I think the right veteran needs to be added, either a big or a shooter.

[Shane Wahl]

So just some thinking out loud. I apologize for missing replies or comments addressing this earlier:

 

What do you think about the Wolves trading down to the Nuggets or Celtics or even Suns in order to get two first round picks of quality. The *reason* I have is that I really do think that if we judge the players in the draft on actual impact-now NBA talent, Denzel Valentine is a top-5 guy, and Brice Johnson (or Demontas Sabonis) is a top 15-guy. But they are probably drafted around 15 and 25-30, respectively.

 

A second unit with Valentine and either Johnson or Sabonis is pretty enticing. Valentine is a 1-3 player in the NBA.

[kab21]

Does Kris Dunn interest anyone as a backup PG and a plan B to Rubio's injuries?  Can Tyus become a competent PG?

 

I continue to see project project players (Jaylen or Ellenson) or Hield (has to backup Lavine) as possible picks.  Hield seems like he could step right into the 2nd unit and not only contribute but be one of the better players

 

I was also just thinking of the trading down angle for Brice Johnson or similar lower upside but ready player.

 

 

[bluechipper]

So just some thinking out loud. I apologize for missing replies or comments addressing this earlier:

 

What do you think about the Wolves trading down to the Nuggets or Celtics or even Suns in order to get two first round picks of quality. The *reason* I have is that I really do think that if we judge the players in the draft on actual impact-now NBA talent, Denzel Valentine is a top-5 guy, and Brice Johnson (or Demontas Sabonis) is a top 15-guy. But they are probably drafted around 15 and 25-30, respectively.

 

A second unit with Valentine and either Johnson or Sabonis is pretty enticing. Valentine is a 1-3 player in the NBA.

I like both Valentine and Johnson, but I don't really want two more rookies on the team next year. I think I'd be more interested in trading the pick for a veteran player, or just take Ellenson with their top pick.

[Shane Wahl]

 

I like both Valentine and Johnson, but I don't really want two more rookies on the team next year. I think I'd be more interested in trading the pick for a veteran player, or just take Ellenson with their top pick.

 

True, though these are non 19-year-olds in this case.