2015-16 Wolves thread

[bluechipper]

 

Homer alert I know, but how great would Buddy Hield look on this roster?

 

Next years roster could be:

 

PG: Rubio (or trade Rubio and bring in a more well rounded PG)

SG: Hield

SF: Wiggins

PF: Dieng

C: KAT

 

Lavine becomes an awesome 6th man for you and Shabazz ends up a solid bench guy as well. Jones is your back up PG and if you find a couple big solid bench bodies you are set.

 

 

Which brings up another question:

 

Thoughts on Rubio? I know he does a lot of things well, and LaVine isn't a true NBA PG, but man, Rubio absolutely can not shoot and it allows the opposing defenses to cheat a ton. Would you trade him? Would you keep him? What would it take etc?

I would love to add more shooting, especially with Gorgui playing great and reducing the glaring need at PF. Hield would potentially be a nice upgrade off the bench over the current version of Kevin Martin.

 

Ricky Rubio is so important to this team both offensively and defensively, and I would absolutely not trade him.

[DaveW]

 

 

Ricky Rubio is so important to this team both offensively and defensively, and I would absolutely not trade him.

People say this, yet a Rubio team has never made the playoffs nor gotten super close. I guess he would be ok if you could find another PG to share minutes with him, but just imagine just how more effective Wiggins and co would be if other teams actually had to worry about the Wolves PG making shots.

[bluechipper]

 

People say this, yet a Rubio team has never made the playoffs nor gotten super close. I guess he would be ok if you could find another PG to share minutes with him, but just imagine just how more effective Wiggins and co would be if other teams actually had to worry about the Wolves PG making shots.

That's true, and I know some people think the knee and ankle injuries may have hurt his athleticism a bit too, but it's clear that he is the leader of the team. I can see Rubio leading the current core to a competitive level, sort of like how Rajon Rondo won a title with a horrible shot, and I think Rubio can be a better player than Rondo ever was.

 

I just wish Andrew Wiggins would combine his athleticism with Rubio's nose for the ball.

[kab21]

 

People say this, yet a Rubio team has never made the playoffs nor gotten super close. I guess he would be ok if you could find another PG to share minutes with him, but just imagine just how more effective Wiggins and co would be if other teams actually had to worry about the Wolves PG making shots.

 

Worst argument ever.  Until this season Rubio had Kevin Love, Pekovic (1/2 time) and a bunch of players that struggle to be in a good team's playing rotation much less the starting lineup.

 

Stephen Curry (probably) would have made the playoffs with those teams but nobody is saying that Rubio is Curry (KAHN!).  His shooting limits how good he is but unless you definitely have a better replacement picked up then you are playing a dangerous, dangerous game by getting rid of a good (but not great) PG.

[DaveW]

 

That's true, and I know some people think the knee and ankle injuries may have hurt his athleticism a bit too, but it's clear that he is the leader of the team. I can see Rubio leading the current core to a competitive level, sort of like how Rajon Rondo won a title with a horrible shot, and I think Rubio can be a better player than Rondo ever was.

 

I just wish Andrew Wiggins would combine his athleticism with Rubio's nose for the ball.

Rondo has shot 46% lifetime, Rubio has shot 36% (and it's not like he is getting better either)

[DaveW]

 

 

  His shooting limits how good he is but unless you definitely have a better replacement picked up then you are playing a dangerous, dangerous game by getting rid of a good (but not great) PG.

Seems like a risk worth taking IMO, not exactly like things could get much worse since Rubio has arrived. Plus if a team like the Knicks or some other team is willing to overpay, let them. Sign a veteran PG, let Jones have a few minutes and draft another one that someday potentially can be a complete player (healthy, can shoot, D, etc)

[kab21]

 

Seems like a risk worth taking IMO, not exactly like things could get much worse since Rubio has arrived. Plus if a team like the Knicks or some other team is willing to overpay, let them. Sign a veteran PG, let Jones have a few minutes and draft another one that someday potentially can be a complete player (healthy, can shoot, D, etc)

It looks like you are sticking to your awful player analysis.  Rubio's teams were bad so therefore he must have been bad.  Keep it up.

 

Yes, things could get much worse and I would rather not waste Towns and Wiggins best years with a black hole at PG.

[DaveW]

 

It looks like you are sticking to your awful player analysis.  Rubio's teams were bad so therefore he must have been bad.  Keep it up.

 

Yes, things could get much worse and I would rather not waste Towns and Wiggins best years with a black hole at PG.

Did I ever say Rubio was bad? I just think they need to aim for a more well rounded PG if they want to succeed, I also mentioned that Rubio would be ok if you played him 20-25 minutes a game and found a veteran PG that can cover the other half and actually shoot the ball as well.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

I didn't actually say that GS would offer Barnes a near max deal.  This is an offseason where everybody has max money (20+ teams according to ESPN) to go after a limited number of FA's.  Chances are the Wolves aren't the most desirable location to go to. 

 

 

I think that was kind of my point. If the Wolves want someone, they'll have to A) Overpay to the point that no team in their right mind will do it (The Warriors could give Barnes the near max in theory, but they won't because he isn't worth it). Or they have to find young guys who have struggled that don't have a ton of options. 

 

Option B sound a lot better. A guy like Ben McLemore would be a great pick up.

[kab21]

You want to replace Rubio with some random veteran because the Wolves haven't made the playoffs since Rubio arrived and things can't get much worse w/o him. 

 

That is dreadfully awful analysis until that random veteran (or draft pick) has a name and is on the Wolves roster.  Things can certainly get much worse than having Rubio at PG. 

 

In a way this team is almost perfect for Rubio to run since there are some shooters all over the court especially if it is a Rubio - Lavine - Wiggins - Dieng - Towns lineup.

[DaveW]

 

You want to replace Rubio with some random veteran because the Wolves haven't made the playoffs since Rubio arrived and things can't get much worse w/o him. 

 

That is dreadfully awful analysis until that random veteran (or draft pick) has a name and is on the Wolves roster.  Things can certainly get much worse than having Rubio at PG. 

 

In a way this team is almost perfect for Rubio to run since there are some shooters all over the court especially if it is a Rubio - Lavine - Wiggins - Dieng - Towns lineup.

Rubio can't shoot. 36% is pathetic, teams don't even guard him, instead they are free to double team Wiggins and the rest. Get a PG that can actually shoot the ball and suddenly Wiggins frees up (LaVine can't handle the ball, but at least he opens up Wiggins and the rest)

Trade him to the Knicks, get some draft picks back and build up that way.

[kab21]

 

 

I think that was kind of my point. If the Wolves want someone, they'll have to A) Overpay to the point that no team in their right mind will do it (The Warriors could give Barnes the near max in theory, but they won't because he isn't worth it). Or they have to find young guys who have struggled that don't have a ton of options. 

 

Option B sound a lot better. A guy like Ben McLemore would be a great pick up.

I think you are going to have to recalibrate the type of player that is going to be getting near max money this offseason.  I predict that Barnes is going to have multiple offers of near max money and one of them will be from the Warriors (unless they go in a radically different direction).

 

I am all for signing a guy like McLemore but Pekovic's salary doesn't restrict the team from doing anything including a near max player and it could potentially be used to pick up a disgruntled and overpaid 2nd tier star.  Instead of competing with 20 teams that can offer a max salary that player has no choice except playing for the Wolves.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

Homer alert I know, but how great would Buddy Hield look on this roster?

 

Thoughts on Rubio? I know he does a lot of things well, and LaVine isn't a true NBA PG, but man, Rubio absolutely can not shoot and it allows the opposing defenses to cheat a ton. Would you trade him? Would you keep him? What would it take etc?

 

I wouldn't mind Hield. He strikes me as the kind of guy who could turn into our Wes Matthews in a best case scenario or simply be a great shooter off the bench in a worst case one. Poeltl is the other pick who might make sense, since if Dieng is the power forward we need a new backup center. I'm also kind of liking the idea of Bender or Luwawu.

 

Re: Rubio. I think my response would be the reason Jason Kidd was so aggressive in seeking out Rubio is that because he knows Rubio is the new Jason Kidd. Or more to the point:

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/1

 

Or essentially, there are four more valuable point guards right now than Rubio in the league, and Rubio is the best defensive point guard in the game right now. Which is why from the more hockey standard +/- standard Garnett and Rubio are the only two players on the Wolves who are positive.

 

Would it be great to have a Westbrook? Yes. But I think calling Rubio the problem is a bit like the old dog with two bones fable. It's good to want. But what we have right now is really good, just coming into his prime and signed to a really good contract.

 

 

[ALessKosherScott]

 

I think you are going to have to recalibrate the type of player that is going to be getting near max money this offseason.  I predict that Barnes is going to have multiple offers of near max money and one of them will be from the Warriors (unless they go in a radically different direction).

 

I am all for signing a guy like McLemore but Pekovic's salary doesn't restrict the team from doing anything including a near max player and it could potentially be used to pick up a disgruntled and overpaid 2nd tier star.  Instead of competing with 20 teams that can offer a max salary that player has no choice except playing for the Wolves.

 

I'd guess Barnes gets more money than average, but HoopsHype has him as the #20 overall free agent next year. He's going to get burn because the Warriors are so good. But the Warriors are so good because of Curry, Green and Thompson. They can simply plug another shooter into that spot and the Ws know it. If they can get a true star like Durant, they dish out a max. But for Barnes? They'll leave that to the Kings or Nets. 

 

Pekovic's money coming off the books is going to go to Towns and Wiggins long term. The rest is just figuring out the pieces that go around them.

[DaveW]

 

I wouldn't mind Hield. He strikes me as the kind of guy who could turn into our Wes Matthews in a best case scenario or simply be a great shooter off the bench in a worst case one. Poeltl is the other pick who might make sense, since if Dieng is the power forward we need a new backup center. I'm also kind of liking the idea of Bender or Luwawu.

 

Re: Rubio. I think my response would be the reason Jason Kidd was so aggressive in seeking out Rubio is that because he knows Rubio is the new Jason Kidd. Or more to the point:

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/1

 

Or essentially, there are four more valuable point guards right now than Rubio in the league, and Rubio is the best defensive point guard in the game right now. Which is why from the more hockey standard +/- standard Garnett and Rubio are the only two players on the Wolves who are positive.

 

Would it be great to have a Westbrook? Yes. But I think calling Rubio the problem is a bit like the old dog with two bones fable. It's good to want. But what we have right now is really good, just coming into his prime and signed to a really good contract.

Yeah, that is a good point in regards to the contract.

 

I guess what is most frustrating to me is that Rubio just continues to be such a poor shot, at some point you would like to see a little bit of growth in that part of his game. I am not trying to be a simpleton in this approach or anything, and I'm not saying "cut him" I just think you could get a team like the Knicks or someone to overpay for him in a trade.

If I had to rate the T Wolves issues in my mind they would be as followed:

 

1. Coaching. Mitchell has to go, bring in someone who will let guys shoot the 3.

2. Depth (Lack of depth at the 4 and 5 is a big concern IMO)

 

[ALessKosherScott]

 

I'm not saying "cut him" I just think you could get a team like the Knicks or someone to overpay for him in a trade.

 

 

Getting someone to overpay for Rubio is easier said than done. And if it's a team like the Knicks, the only piece they have I'd place value above Rubio on is Porzingis, which won't happen. The sludge of the Knicks roster and their two mid-round picks in a weak draft don't interest me.

 

My summary from the whole Bucks thing from reading Twitter is the Bucks offered MCW for Rubio.  Newton laughed and asked for Middleton and more with the Bucks laughing back. Which given Rubio is a better player than Middleton is kind of funny to me.

[ALessKosherScott]

I take that back. I forgot the Knicks don't even have one mid-round pick in this weak draft.

[bluechipper]

 

I think that was kind of my point. If the Wolves want someone, they'll have to A) Overpay to the point that no team in their right mind will do it (The Warriors could give Barnes the near max in theory, but they won't because he isn't worth it). Or they have to find young guys who have struggled that don't have a ton of options. 

 

Option B sound a lot better. A guy like Ben McLemore would be a great pick up.

I totally disagree. Overpaying for a second tier guy like Barnes is what this team needs. I would like to have Ben McLemore, but he's just another average player, and the Wolves need quality over quantity. They're not going to get great quality unless they package a pick with Bazz or Gorgui... so why not just overpay for a guy instead?

[bluechipper]

 

I wouldn't mind Hield. He strikes me as the kind of guy who could turn into our Wes Matthews in a best case scenario or simply be a great shooter off the bench in a worst case one. Poeltl is the other pick who might make sense, since if Dieng is the power forward we need a new backup center. I'm also kind of liking the idea of Bender or Luwawu.

 

Re: Rubio. I think my response would be the reason Jason Kidd was so aggressive in seeking out Rubio is that because he knows Rubio is the new Jason Kidd. Or more to the point:

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/1

 

Or essentially, there are four more valuable point guards right now than Rubio in the league, and Rubio is the best defensive point guard in the game right now. Which is why from the more hockey standard +/- standard Garnett and Rubio are the only two players on the Wolves who are positive.

 

Would it be great to have a Westbrook? Yes. But I think calling Rubio the problem is a bit like the old dog with two bones fable. It's good to want. But what we have right now is really good, just coming into his prime and signed to a really good contract.

Henry Ellenson is the guy I would really like to get to add some depth in the frontcourt.

[bluechipper]

 

Rubio can't shoot. 36% is pathetic, teams don't even guard him, instead they are free to double team Wiggins and the rest. Get a PG that can actually shoot the ball and suddenly Wiggins frees up (LaVine can't handle the ball, but at least he opens up Wiggins and the rest)

Trade him to the Knicks, get some draft picks back and build up that way.

Rubio is 5th in assists, 2nd in ast/to, 5th among pgs in real plus/minus, and 1st in defensive real plus/minus among point guards by a wide margin. It would be tough to find an upgrade for him.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

I totally disagree. Overpaying for a second tier guy like Barnes is what this team needs. I would like to have Ben McLemore, but he's just another average player, and the Wolves need quality over quantity. They're not going to get great quality unless they package a pick with Bazz or Gorgui... so why not just overpay for a guy instead?

 

I don't know about that. What this team needs is a small forward who can defend and shoot threes, so Wiggins can play the 2 and attack the hoop. And Barnes does the later but not the former. If I'm going to overpay, I'd rather do it on a guy like Nic Batum who can do both.

[bluechipper]

 

I don't know about that. What this team needs is a small forward who can defend and shoot threes, so Wiggins can play the 2 and attack the hoop. And Barnes does the later but not the former. If I'm going to overpay, I'd rather do it on a guy like Nic Batum who can do both.

I've always thought of Barnes as a solid defender. Plus you can play him at the 4 quite a bit to open up playing time at sg for Zach Lavine. Barnes has shot over 40% from three the last two years.

 

I like Batum too though, and I hope the Wolves sign someone up to this level of player this offseason.

[kab21]

 

I'd guess Barnes gets more money than average, but HoopsHype has him as the #20 overall free agent next year. He's going to get burn because the Warriors are so good. But the Warriors are so good because of Curry, Green and Thompson. They can simply plug another shooter into that spot and the Ws know it. If they can get a true star like Durant, they dish out a max. But for Barnes? They'll leave that to the Kings or Nets. 

 

Pekovic's money coming off the books is going to go to Towns and Wiggins long term. The rest is just figuring out the pieces that go around them.

We will have to agree to disagree.  Barnes is probably more like #10-15 on that list because some players are either 35 or not going anywhere.  23 yr old wings are going to get big contracts even if they haven't played like stars yet.  Mostly because absolutely stupid money is going to get spent this offseason.

 

Pekovic's money doesn't factor at all with any moves the Wolves are going to make.  Unless they need it to match a trade with another team.  And that player would be off the books well before there was any concern about long term offers to Towns or Wiggins.

[DaveW]

I will maybe concede that Rubio is good overall at PG, but when you are down 4-7 points with like a minute left, why on earth is he still in the game and why is he taking 3 pointers? If you are basically going to foul and chuck up 3's at that point, why not have a lineup full of shooters?

[bluechipper]

 

I will maybe concede that Rubio is good overall at PG, but when you are down 4-7 points with like a minute left, why on earth is he still in the game and why is he taking 3 pointers? If you are basically going to foul and chuck up 3's at that point, why not have a lineup full of shooters?

Rubio is the best, and only, option to set up guys for open shots late in games .

 

Wiggins had a great first half tonight, but unfortunately played a large part in costing them the game with his terrible 2nd half. I'm till fairly happy to see them compete with a very good Raptors team on the road

[kab21]

I am not surprised that Kevin Martin had to be bought out in order to get rid of him.  The Wolves have finally settled on a rotation of Wiggins, Lavine and Muhammad on the wings with Prince and Rudez picking up PT scraps.  For better or worse this has opened up PT for Tyus at the point.

 

They haven't necessarily improved but this is a lost season anyway and the players that need to develop are getting minutes where they need to be playing so I can't complain.  It looks like they can't be worse than 5th in the lottery so they should be able to add a pretty solid player to their young rotation.

 

The question remains of whether or not these pieces fit together as a whole and as a combinations (Gorgui/Towns and Lavine/Wiggins) but I am kind of excited that the Wolves actually have skilled young players.  That is at least a start.

 

Towns is AWESOME.  

[kab21]

This article starts out rather negatively regarding Rubio but...

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14903208/minnesota-attempt-send-ricky-rubio-speaks-volumes

[ALessKosherScott]

I get why you do Rubio for Middleton. Rubio and the fifth pick for Middleton, that scares me a little more.

[ALessKosherScott]

Rubio +15 last night. Wiggins +10. Towns +7. Everyone else was a negative. If this team had anything resembling a second unit, they'd be fighting for the tenth pick in the draft instead of the fifth.

[bluechipper]

 

Rubio +15 last night. Wiggins +10. Towns +7. Everyone else was a negative. If this team had anything resembling a second unit, they'd be fighting for the tenth pick in the draft instead of the fifth.

Totally agree. The bench is brutal right now. I think it would be good if LaVine sits after about 5 minutes, and then he can play with the second unit in the second quarter. Smitch still puts all bench players on the floor every now and then, even though that should never happen.