2015-16 Wolves thread

[TheLeviathan]

To the "finally free" part, he did choose to sign a 5 year extension with Oklahoma not that long ago, so he bypassed his first chance at free agency.  Durant is welcome to do what he wants, I just wonder if what he's chasing (rings) is really going to fulfill what he after.

 

Rings are supposed to be about the glory of achieving the pinnacle of your sport and the respect that comes with it, but in the current NBA we are seeing a change because of these kinds of decisions.  Rings still matter, but decisions like this are changing that.  

 

I hope the counter-movement wins out.  That we care less about super teams just for the sake of winning titles and care more about titles won by effort and perseverance.

[Pardon My Dinger]

First, yeah, these pile-on, designer-brand rosters can be a real bummer. 

 

However (and I admit, I am still a novice when it comes to basketball fandom), I just don't see this having a huge impact. It still doesn't seem like a fit to me. Neither Durant nor Curry are going to play 2nd team minutes. Considering that they won 73 games without KD last year, I don't see how they will improve upon that with or without him. 

 

Personally, as a Wolves fan, I'm into the whole thing. I think the bigger impact will be the fact that OKC is pretty much removed from their position of dominance in the Northwest division. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

First, yeah, these pile-on, designer-brand rosters can be a real bummer. 

 

However (and I admit, I am still a novice when it comes to basketball fandom), I just don't see this having a huge impact. It still doesn't seem like a fit to me. Neither Durant nor Curry are going to play 2nd team minutes. Considering that they won 73 games without KD last year, I don't see how they will improve upon that with or without him. 

 

Personally, as a Wolves fan, I'm into the whole thing. I think the bigger impact will be the fact that OKC is pretty much removed from their position of dominance in the Northwest division. 

 

Valid take that OKC is now lesser, and the Wolves have one less great team to contend with, btw.

[bluechipper]

 

Thoughts on Durant to the Warriors? It's going to be fun as a new T Wolves fan getting crushed by the Warriors in the 1st round next year! 

I think it's such a cheap move by Durant, and I was a big fan of his before this. I don't understand these elite players wanting to go chase rings. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think it's such a cheap move by Durant, and I was a big fan of his before this. I don't understand these elite players wanting to go chase rings. 

Maybe he didn't want to live in OKC half the year anymore?

 

You really don't understand a player wanting to increase his odds of winning? 

[Vanimal46]

 

So much of what is going on in the NBA is antithetical to why I love sports.  It should be about competition and persevering over odds and becoming great.  Instead we orchestrate ways to just "be great" by stacking the deck.

 

Miami largely failed in their goals - congrats, you got some rings, but at what cost to your legacy?  I'd argue Lebron accomplished more for his legacy the last two years in Cleveland than he did in his entire time in Miami.

 

Durant is likely making the same mistake.  It's bad for the NBA and just plain sad from a competition standpoint.

 

Well said, and stacking the deck is one of the reasons I'll never truly be an NBA fan. This league above all else loves their dynasties. Over the last 6 years since LeBron's "The Decision" it feels like these players are trying to manufacture their own dynasty team.

Personally I was hoping Durant either stays in OKC to compete against the Spurs and Warriors, or find his way to the Eastern conference so any team LeBron is on doesn't get an automatic berth to the NBA Finals. Instead he decided he can't beat them, so why not join them. 

[bluechipper]

 

Maybe he didn't want to live in OKC half the year anymore?

 

You really don't understand a player wanting to increase his odds of winning? 

I wanted to see him and Westbrook take one more shot at GS, who they were up 3-1 on by the way. Then next offseason, Westbrook can go to the Lakers and Durant can go wherever he wants.

 

I value great players wanting to be the reason their teams win championships, and not just be along for the ride, which is the position that an all time great in Durant has put himself in. 

[bluechipper]

 

Well said, and stacking the deck is one of the reasons I'll never truly be an NBA fan. This league above all else loves their dynasties. Over the last 6 years since LeBron's "The Decision" it feels like these players are trying to manufacture their own dynasty team.

Personally I was hoping Durant either stays in OKC to compete against the Spurs and Warriors, or find his way to the Eastern conference so any team LeBron is on doesn't get an automatic berth to the NBA Finals. Instead he decided he can't beat them, so why not join them. 

This move takes away from the big picture interest in the NBA this year. I'm still a huge NBA fan, but it's now basically a sure bet Warriors-Cavs rematch.

 

Of course, the thing I'm most interested in is the Wolves development and them fighting for a playoff spot.

[Vanimal46]

 

I wanted to see him and Westbrook take one more shot at GS, who they were up 3-1 on by the way. Then next offseason, Westbrook can go to the Lakers and Durant can go wherever he wants.

 

I value great players wanting to be the reason their teams win championships, and not just be along for the ride, which is the position that an all time great in Durant has put himself in. 

That's the thing that annoys me about the Durant move as well. He could go to any up and coming team and improve them from a 45 win team to a 55-60 win team. Instead of doing that, he decides to join as the potential 3rd wheel on a stacked team already. 

[ALessKosherScott]

To me, the elephant in the room is the Warriors were a great two-way team last year that gave up their best defender in Bogut to make Durant happen. They're a much better offensive team now and Durant is a huge leap forward from Barnes. But replacing what Bogut brought to the table is no easy task. And for all the death line up talk, the Dubs were far better when Bogut was on the court.

 

They're the favorites to win it. But I think they're a weaker team with Durant than last year. At the very least, they're not as good of an all-around team. And a squad built around a good post piece like Boogie Cousins or dare I say KAT might pose a real matchup problem for them.

 

 

[kab21]

Bogut played 20 mins/game last year. They will be exposed towards certain lineups but no team can come close to matching the offensive firepower. I would be concerned about the depth that they are losing.

 

I am surprised that Durant left this year. I thought he would sign a 1 yr contract with a player option and then leave with Westbrook next year. I also thought that we would see a similar players side collusion situation like the Heat with Lebron and Bosh making a superteam in FA (either this year or next). This is a little different but kind of the same.

 

I think ultimately this becomes Durant's legacy. He wasn't good enough to take a team to the championship himself and joined a great team to win. It might not be fair but I think that is how he will be remembered.

[DaveW]

 

Bogut played 20 mins/game last year. They will be exposed towards certain lineups but no team can come close to matching the offensive firepower. I would be concerned about the depth that they are losing.

 

I am surprised that Durant left this year. I thought he would sign a 1 yr contract with a player option and then leave with Westbrook next year. I also thought that we would see a similar players side collusion situation like the Heat with Lebron and Bosh making a superteam in FA (either this year or next). This is a little different but kind of the same.

 

I think ultimately this becomes Durant's legacy. He wasn't good enough to take a team to the championship himself and joined a great team to win. It might not be fair but I think that is how he will be remembered.

Couple things:
1. Durant did take his team to the finals before. In fact, had the idiot GM not traded away Harden, there is a very real chance that OKC would have gotten at least one championship ring.

2. OKC and Oklahoma as a state are a terrible place to spend time in. No "real" free agent in their right mind will choose to go there, and no big name drafted player will stick around. Oklahoma is an awful, awful place. My guess is after Westbrook leaves, the franchise will nose dive, attendance will fall off a cliff as well and the Thunder will either be back in Seattle or Las Vegas by the 2019-2020 season.

[Vanimal46]

 

Couple things:
1. Durant did take his team to the finals before. In fact, had the idiot GM not traded away Harden, there is a very real chance that OKC would have gotten at least one championship ring.

2. OKC and Oklahoma as a state are a terrible place to spend time in. No "real" free agent in their right mind will choose to go there, and no big name drafted player will stick around. Oklahoma is an awful, awful place. My guess is after Westbrook leaves, the franchise will nose dive, attendance will fall off a cliff as well and the Thunder will either be back in Seattle or Las Vegas by the 2019-2020 season.

And this is coming from a known Sooners fan IIRC  

You are correct, Oklahoma has nothing going on for them. OKC's downtown scene is nothing special, in fact I was surprised how small it was. I was there during a big home game... Can't recall who they played, maybe the Clippers or something. Regardless it felt more like a minor league game than a prime time pro basketball game.

Your prediction on attendance taking a nose dive will probably come true. It will certainly be tested this season without Durant. Once Westbrook heads for greener pastures it's going to get much worse.    

[DaveW]

 

And this is coming from a known Sooners fan IIRC  

You are correct, Oklahoma has nothing going on for them. OKC's downtown scene is nothing special, in fact I was surprised how small it was. I was there during a big home game... Can't recall who they played, maybe the Clippers or something. Regardless it felt more like a minor league game than a prime time pro basketball game.

Your prediction on attendance taking a nose dive will probably come true. It will certainly be tested this season without Durant. Once Westbrook heads for greener pastures it's going to get much worse.    

I spent 4.5 years in Oklahoma for college. I know the OKC area and state as a whole quite well unfortunately.

Additionally, my family lives in Seattle, and I lived there prior to moving south, so I have never liked the Thunder anyways
 

I applaud Durant for this move, clearly the pundits/fans are gonna turn on him a bit, but if the guy wants to increase his brand/win some titles, this was absolutely his best move. People act like his reputation will never recover, and that is hogwash, people trashed Lebron as well for going to Miami, now people can't stop tripping over themselves with admiration for him. Durant can go win a title or two for the Warriors, then still be in his prime and go somewhere to build another title winner (back home to Washington? Up to the Knicks to deliver a long waited for title?) Plenty of "time" to restore his reputation from the people who have turned on him.

Again, nobody in there right mind in his situation (financial, potential branding) would choose to live in Oklahoma over the the Bay area. Who cares that he didn't goto Boston? Boston is pretty much the most storied franchise in NBA history, last time I checked the Warriors only have one title anyways.

[kab21]

 

Couple things:
1. Durant did take his team to the finals before. In fact, had the idiot GM not traded away Harden, there is a very real chance that OKC would have gotten at least one championship ring.

2. OKC and Oklahoma as a state are a terrible place to spend time in. No "real" free agent in their right mind will choose to go there, and no big name drafted player will stick around. Oklahoma is an awful, awful place. My guess is after Westbrook leaves, the franchise will nose dive, attendance will fall off a cliff as well and the Thunder will either be back in Seattle or Las Vegas by the 2019-2020 season.

But #1 didn't happen nor will he will be considered the driving force behind a championship Warriors team. If he had gone to the Blazers, Wolves, Celtics or another a different team that wasn't on top then he would have a different legacy.

 

I don't disagree with this but I thought the Durant/OKC break would have happened next year. It was a convenient break with Russell also leaving and the rest of the team getting exposed for another year. The OKC team really isn't that good once you go past their two MVP level players.

[DaveW]

Also, for those that don't like this move, don't hate the player, hate the game.

If the NBA didn't want this happening they easily could eliminate it by two different ways:

-Enact a hard cap like the NFL/NHL.
-Have no cap, like the MLB.

[TheLeviathan]

I don't hate Durant for it, I feel bad for him.  No matter what happens in Golden State (including winning rings) it'll never look like a crown jewel in HIS legacy.

[DaveW]

 

 

But #1 didn't happen nor will he will be considered the driving force behind a championship Warriors team. If he had gone to the Blazers, Wolves, Celtics or another a different team that wasn't on top then he would have a different legacy.

 

I don't disagree with this but I thought the Durant/OKC break would have happened next year. It was a convenient break with Russell also leaving and the rest of the team getting exposed for another year. The OKC team really isn't that good once you go past their two MVP level players.

If OKC is smart at all they will trade Westbrook ASAP.

There is a zero percent chance he comes back to OKC after next year anyways. Might as well try to strike up a bidding war and get some young talent/picks in the meantime.

He already has won an MVP and is a top 3-4 player in the NBA, he also has plenty of time left in his career to "lead" a team to a title and up his legacy that way (i.e. what Lebron just did with Cleveland)

He just wants a title, nothing wrong with that, players these days don't want to become the next Stockton/Malones or Barkleys. Winning matters to them, I respect that, especially when he won't be the true #1 on a team, and will take a bit of a backseat to Curry. Make no mistake though, Durant will be the CLEAR #2, Thompson/Green are good and even great players, but Durant is one of the best 3 or 4 in this league.

[DaveW]

 

 

I don't hate Durant for it, I feel bad for him.  No matter what happens in Golden State (including winning rings) it'll never look like a crown jewel in HIS legacy.

Hard to say that at this stage, if he wins back to back titles with Golden State than it is pretty obvious he was the key to getting them those titles. Remember this is a team he is going to that DID NOT win the title this year.

And as mentioned, he is still rather young, he has plenty of time to add onto his hall of fame "legacy" anyways.

[kab21]

I absolutely agree that the Thunder should trade Westbrook (or extend him - unlikely).

 

The more relevant question in this thread is whether or not the Wolves should be involved in any of the trade rumors. Do you give up Dunn and Lavine for him? I don't think that gets it done (or close to done) but what other rebuilding assets do the Wolves have to offer (assuming that Wiggins or Towns is HELL NO)? Shabazz or Gorgui? Future 1st rd'ers? Rubio could be sent elsewhere (3 way trade) for a potential asset I guess.

 

I see this going nowhere with Thibodeau though. Butler could still happen though. That one makes sense.

[DaveW]

 

I absolutely agree that the Thunder should trade Westbrook (or extend him - unlikely).

 

The more relevant question in this thread is whether or not the Wolves should be involved in any of the trade rumors. Do you give up Dunn and Lavine for him? I don't think that gets it done (or close to done) but what other rebuilding assets do the Wolves have to offer (assuming that Wiggins or Towns is HELL NO)? Shabazz or Gorgui? Future 1st rd'ers? Rubio could be sent elsewhere (3 way trade) for a potential asset I guess.

 

I see this going nowhere with Thibodeau though. Butler could still happen though. That one makes sense.

Westbrook has already said no to an extension.

I wouldn't give up any future assets for him. The wolves have finally gotten a team together that looks like they could make a run in a couple years if things break right, giving up the farm for one year of Westbrook (who most certainly would go somewhere else after the season) is too risky.

It is fun though to think about a potential Rubio, Westbrook, Wiggins, Towns type core though. Would Westbrook work as a 2 guard in that scenario?

[TheLeviathan]

Who on earth even has the assets for Westbrook?  Boston?

[Mike Sixel]

No idea why I keep coming into this thread, I can hardly watch the nba. Also no idea why, but I tuned into Portland sports talk on the way home. They like the wolves a lot.

[kab21]

 

Who on earth even has the assets for Westbrook?  Boston?

LA might have the best set of assets with Ingram, Russell and Randle.

 

Westbrook might have said no to an extension but that can change with max dollars which I think includes a pay increase this year (8M I heard) and a top up and coming team. I think Butler is a better fit though and likely preferred by Thibodeau.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

Bogut played 20 mins/game last year. They will be exposed towards certain lineups but no team can come close to matching the offensive firepower. I would be concerned about the depth that they are losing.

 

 

Twenty minutes a game. But the best defensive RPM of any player in the league at any position, the only Warrior with a sub-100 defensive rating and the best defensive DAPM in the playoffs in the league. 

 

The series with Cleveland turned when Bogut went out with his knee injury because it suddenly became easier for LeBron and Kyrie to score in the paint. Offense is good, and no team in the league has as much firepower as Golden State with Thompson, Curry and Durant. But there are times when you have to win through defense. I like the Warriors. But I also remember a Mavs fan friend of mine telling me it wasn't that big of a deal when Tyson Chandler left. Bogut leaving feels like a similar move. If it were my move, I would've moved on from Iggy over Bogut.

[DaveW]

Actually, I take it back, I would give up Rubio+Lavine for Westbrook, then I would give up Dieng+Cap Room for Love. (I think the Cavs would value the cap room at this stage and would allow them to possibly bring in DWade and another player)

So you basically have:

Dunn

Westbrook

Wiggins

Love

KAT

As your starting 5 next year. There would be a 90% chance you lose Westbrook at the end of the season, but man, what a fun season that would be!

[bluechipper]

I think OKC should just keep Russell and go for the 4/5 seed, and then hope Westbrook goes for 45 ppg against GS in the second round of the playoffs. That would be fun to watch. 

[Vanimal46]

 

Actually, I take it back, I would give up Rubio+Lavine for Westbrook, then I would give up Dieng+Cap Room for Love. (I think the Cavs would value the cap room at this stage and would allow them to possibly bring in DWade and another player)

So you basically have:

Dunn

Westbrook

Wiggins

Love

KAT

As your starting 5 next year. There would be a 90% chance you lose Westbrook at the end of the season, but man, what a fun season that would be!

I don't know if that would be enough to get Westbrook... I think the offer would look like Wiggins+Rubio+1st round pick in 2017. Which I would still do if Westbrook agreed to a contract extension. 

[DaveW]

 

I don't know if that would be enough to get Westbrook... I think the offer would look like Wiggins+Rubio+1st round pick in 2017. Which I would still do if Westbrook agreed to a contract extension. 

There is a zero percent chance Westbrook would agree to a contract extension.
The cap is going up by a LOT next season, thus him signing a contract extension now would be highly counterproductive.

Give up the first round pick as well then, if they put together a stud team then that will be a late first rounder anyways . They shouldn't need to pick add in Wiggins, that would just be silly and overkill,

[bluechipper]

Brandon Rush is the newest member of the team. 1 year at $3.5M. I think it's a really nice signing for wing depth and 3 point shooting.