Gophers Football

[Vanimal46]

Trap game!

[Badsmerf]

Trap game!

I havent played in the trap game since college. Too old to deal with those types of girls nowadays.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Badsmerf

[Vanimal46]

Well, they did better than I thought they would. Kept it close until the 4th quarter.

[Badsmerf]

I listened to a lot of the game. Having Winfield would have helped a lot. How did Annexstead look? For a true freshman to play decent against Ohio State is a pretty good sign going forward. I just hope he isn't automatically handed the keys for the next 3 years.

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm sure we'll get all kinds of moral victory style takes by the Fleck boosting local media.

[#1ShaneMackFan]

 

I'm sure we'll get all kinds of moral victory style takes by the Fleck boosting local media.

Seriously. Who in the local media is a Fleck booster? This take is so old and not even based on anything real. The Gopher football team is probably the most maligned outfit in town. 50 years will do that to you. But today was a really good effort. Now they need to win multiple in these next 5 and show they are getting better.

[TheLeviathan]

When you are transparently building from the ground up.....moral victories are just fine. The key is learning from them.

[Mr. Brooks]

When you are transparently building from the ground up.....moral victories are just fine. The key is learning from them.

At what point can we expect actual victories?

(Big10, not non conference)

 

Of course they shouldn't be expected to win at Ohio State right now. But maybe they should actually win a few games that they SHOULD be capable of winning before we start giving them any credit for moral victories.

[Mr. Brooks]

Seriously. Who in the local media is a Fleck booster? This take is so old and not even based on anything real. The Gopher football team is probably the most maligned outfit in town. 50 years will do that to you. But today was a really good effort. Now they need to win multiple in these next 5 and show they are getting better.

90% of the local media won't say one critical word of Fleck.

And at least half praise him relentlessly, despite accomplishing nothing since he's been here.

 

Am I saying fire him? Of course not. I get it takes time. But there seems to be zero progress. If anything they are going backwards.

And Fleck makes unbelievably boneheaded decisions every game, there is plenty to criticize.

 

How do you not challenge the spot when it's clearly well short on a pivotal fourth down, while they were still in the game?

 

I'll gladly eat crow every single day if this guy takes us to the promised land, but I'm seeing zero signs that I'll have to.

[Mr. Brooks]

When you are transparently building from the ground up.....moral victories are just fine. The key is learning from them.

Fleck talked constantly leading up to the season about how this was a much improved team over last year, and that they'd make big strides.

 

It's fair to hold him to his professed expectations.

 

I don't see how they win more than 1 or 2 big 10 games.

[mngopherguy]

 

Seriously. Who in the local media is a Fleck booster? This take is so old and not even based on anything real. The Gopher football team is probably the most maligned outfit in town. 50 years will do that to you. But today was a really good effort. Now they need to win multiple in these next 5 and show they are getting better.

 

How can someone like a post more than once?  The post above is spot on!  The media in this town loves to rip the Gophers because it's been easy, but refuses to give them any credit on a day like today.  No balance what so ever.  

 

Oh and Shane Mack was one of my favorite 5 Twins, so another like from me for that!

 

 

[Mr. Brooks]

How can someone like a post more than once? The post above is spot on! The media in this town loves to rip the Gophers because it's been easy, but refuses to give them any credit on a day like today. No balance what so ever.

 

Oh and Shane Mack was one of my favorite 5 Twins, so another like from me for that!

Credit for what?

Is this Pop Warner, or power 5 conference Division 1 college? Do they really need participation ribbons?

 

They lost to a team they should lose to. But it's still a loss.

[mngopherguy]

 

Fleck talked constantly leading up to the season about how this was a much improved team over last year, and that they'd make big strides.

It's fair to hold him to his professed expectations.

I don't see how they win more than 1 or 2 big 10 games.

 

As did EVERY other college coach!  How do you recruit kids without being positive?  

 

He also said that even though see saw improvements it may not lead to more wins.  That it's a process.  They have more skilled players, but they are the youngest team in college football.  

 

If 53 18 year old's go into Columbus and battle them all day long without their top two RB's, top two CB's, top DT, top safety, seems like a real odd day to be holding people to higher expectations.  And to think on Twins Daily a professional team gets a pass for missing a pitcher, SS, and 3B most of the year.  Bizarre to me.

 

I've said from day one, 6-6 would be a great record for this team this year and probably next.  When all these guys are juniors and seniors and we add depth, then and only then will we really have a shot at making a run at bigger things.  Hopefully it will be a sustained run with chances to have big seasons.  

 

 

[mngopherguy]

 

Credit for what?
Is this Pop Warner, or power 5 conference Division 1 college? Do they really need participation ribbons?

They lost to a team they should lose to. But it's still a loss.

 

Where did I say any of that?  You can't give them any credit for how they played because they lost?  

[TheLeviathan]

 

At what point can we expect actual victories?
(Big10, not non conference)

Of course they shouldn't be expected to win at Ohio State right now. But maybe they should actually win a few games that they SHOULD be capable of winning before we start giving them any credit for moral victories.

 

I would say after the coach has had 3-4 years.  I think their start has earned them the ability to take credit for moral victories.  

 

I hope they also regret leaving a chance to win on the field.  If they go 3-3 over the next 6 games they will have improved.  And I see a much better product on the field each week compared to last year.

 

Personally, I don't like Fleck's schtick, but things do seem on the uptick.  And when they are, I can recognize moral victories.  I think you're being far too harsh.

Edited October 14, 2018 by TheLeviathan

[Mr. Brooks]

I would say after the coach has had 3-4 years. I think their start has earned them the ability to take credit for moral victories.

 

I hope they also regret leaving a chance to win on the field. If they go 3-3 over the next 6 games they will have improved. And I see a much better product on the field each week compared to last year.

 

Personally, I don't like Fleck's schtick, but things do seem on the uptick. And when they are, I can recognize moral victories. I think you're being far too harsh.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about competing. Just actually winning a conference game or two.

4 years before we can even ask for that? Unreal.

 

They haven't come close to winning a game yet. (Conference. Not cream puff non conference.)

[Mr. Brooks]

Where did I say any of that? You can't give them any credit for how they played because they lost?

You play to win the game.

You don't play just to play.

[Badsmerf]

It is only a moral victory if they can go out and play well the next few weeks. I have a hard time accepting a moral victory after they got stomped by Iowa/Maryland. Granted, maybe Iowa is better than expected. Still, a loss to Ohio's State is still a loss.

 

I'd like to point out another young head coach, that has only a single more year coaching their team, Matt Campbell. Began only a year earlier than fleck at Iowa State. Last year, 2 top 5 wins, and just destroyed WV rated 6. He took over a program that was in worse shape than Minnesota, and plays second fiddle in the state they are in.

 

My point is, results matter. Moral victories are fine, if the progress continues. Beat Wisconsin, and it will make everything better. The next 6 games are all winnable. At least come out 500, and I'll say the loss to Ohio State was a good moral victory.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Badsmerf

[#1ShaneMackFan]

 

Fleck talked constantly leading up to the season about how this was a much improved team over last year, and that they'd make big strides.

It's fair to hold him to his professed expectations.

I don't see how they win more than 1 or 2 big 10 games.

Well, if you read my post, you'd know that I said they should definitely win more than a couple in the next 5 games. At this rate, maybe they could even beat Wisconsin. That would be something. Maybe let the season play out.

[#1ShaneMackFan]

 

90% of the local media won't say one critical word of Fleck.
And at least half praise him relentlessly, despite accomplishing nothing since he's been here.

Am I saying fire him? Of course not. I get it takes time. But there seems to be zero progress. If anything they are going backwards.
And Fleck makes unbelievably boneheaded decisions every game, there is plenty to criticize.

How do you not challenge the spot when it's clearly well short on a pivotal fourth down, while they were still in the game?

I'll gladly eat crow every single day if this guy takes us to the promised land, but I'm seeing zero signs that I'll have to.

You still haven't names any of these writers or given an example...

[TheLeviathan]

 

Keep in mind I'm not talking about competing. Just actually winning a conference game or two.
4 years before we can even ask for that? Unreal.

They haven't come close to winning a game yet. (Conference. Not cream puff non conference.)

 

Fresno St. was not a creampuff win.  They have to go 3-3 to "show improvement" in their record and they'll get a chance to have a few Big 10 home games too against the softer part of the Big 10.

 

No one is saying actual wins don't matter, they do.  But moral victories can matter too.

[mngopherguy]

 

It is only a moral victory if they can go out and play well the next few weeks. I have a hard time accepting a moral victory after they got stomped by Iowa/Maryland. Granted, maybe Iowa is better than expected. Still, a loss to Ohio's State is still a loss.

I'd like to point out another young head coach, that has only a single more year coaching their team, Matt Campbell. Began only a year earlier than fleck at Iowa State. Last year, 2 top 5 wins, and just destroyed WV rated 6. He took over a program that was in worse shape than Minnesota, and plays second fiddle in the state they are in.

My point is, results matter. Moral victories are fine, if the progress continues. Beat Wisconsin, and it will make everything better. The next 6 games are all winnable. At least come out 500, and I'll say the loss to Ohio State was a good moral victory.

 

Campbell is obviously doing a great job, but the Big 12 is not that great.  For every Campbell mentioned, I could mention Lovie Smith, Chris Ash,Scott Frost ect.  

 

They didn't get stomped by Iowa either.  They got beat, they didn't get stomped.  Indiana just got stomped by Iowa.

 

Maryland?  You mean the team that beat Texas a now top ten team?  Maryland is a talented football team.  Maryland, the first college road trip for 53 kids?

 

Next week is at Nebraska.  A chance for a win, but Nebraska should have two wins they pissed down their legs.  They are still talented too.  Go gimme win, but hopefully they will find a way.

[mngopherguy]

 

I would say after the coach has had 3-4 years.  I think their start has earned them the ability to take credit for moral victories.  

 

I hope they also regret leaving a chance to win on the field.  If they go 3-3 over the next 6 games they will have improved.  And I see a much better product on the field each week compared to last year.

 

Personally, I don't like Fleck's schtick, but things do seem on the uptick.  And when they are, I can recognize moral victories.  I think you're being far too harsh.

 

I suggest everyone who doesn't like his "schtick" pay attention to what the team actually does.  That they actually go to class, that they made a couple bowl games because of their gpa, that they are probably the #1 team in the country as far as giving back to the community and spending time with kids and patients at hospitals,  Fleck will ultimately be judged on wins and losses, but non of this matters, I think people should just watch the NFL.  

 

Iowa gets a lot of mileage off of a wave.  Minnesota's team actually is in the building and not looking for cheap recognition for it.  

 

 

[mngopherguy]

 

Fresno St. was not a creampuff win.  They have to go 3-3 to "show improvement" in their record and they'll get a chance to have a few Big 10 home games too against the softer part of the Big 10.

 

No one is saying actual wins don't matter, they do.  But moral victories can matter too.

 

I don't even care to call it a moral victory etc.  It just baffles me that we are not allowed to be happy seeing improvement and recognizing that the future may be a little brighter.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

I suggest everyone who doesn't like his "schtick" pay attention to what the team actually does.  That they actually go to class, that they made a couple bowl games because of their gpa, that they are probably the #1 team in the country as far as giving back to the community and spending time with kids and patients at hospitals,  Fleck will ultimately be judged on wins and losses, but non of this matters, I think people should just watch the NFL.  

 

Iowa gets a lot of mileage off of a wave.  Minnesota's team actually is in the building and not looking for cheap recognition for it.  

 

do we have any evidence they are number 1 in the country in giving back? that seems unlikely.

 

I do like your list. I think all of that is as important as winning. But, I never find it productive to the conversation to tell other people how to be the right kind of fan.....

 

I have no idea what that last line even means.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Mike Sixel

[mngopherguy]

 

You play to win the game.
You don't play just to play.

 

They played to win the game, they played their @sses off.  They are the youngest team in college with 53 freshmen.  They are missing their top 2 running backs, their top two corners, their top nose tackle, their top safety.  They were down 23-14 with 2 minutes left at the #3 team in the country.  So don't give them an ounce of credit, I don't care.  I've been around the program since 88, I know whats going on.

Edited October 14, 2018 by mngopherguy

[mngopherguy]

 

do we have any evidence they are number 1 in the country in giving back? that seems unlikely.

 

I do like your list. I think all of that is as important as winning. But, I never find it productive to the conversation to tell other people how to be the right kind of fan.....

 

I have no idea what that last line even means.

 

It's a guess, I would be very surprised if they are not #1 or close especially at D1.  It's part of what they sign up for.

 

The last line is how Iowa gets on TV all the time and people talk about the great tradition they have of waving at the kids in their hospital after the first quarter of games.  It's nice and all, don't get me wrong.  Part of the Gophers program is giving back, they don't just get on TV waving at a building, they are there spending their free time with kids.  And they don't ask for TV time or recognition for it.  

 

 

[Badsmerf]

I really couldn't disagree more with everything you said. This is the big ten, not the Ivy League. I think it's great if Fleck is putting these kids into position to be successful after college. None of that wins games. You're making excuses for him, and it is not even asked for by Fleck or the gophers. This is still football, and that is how Fleck and this team should be evaluated.

 

This part of their schedule is soft, and they need to win in order to earn respect.

[Mr. Brooks]

Well, if you read my post, you'd know that I said they should definitely win more than a couple in the next 5 games. At this rate, maybe they could even beat Wisconsin. That would be something. Maybe let the season play out.

I mean, this is the kind of tone I'm talking about.

A team that hasn't shown it's capable of beating really anyone in the Big10 under Fleck. (2 wins in 12 games!!) And here you are saying they should win more than a couple and maybe Wisconsin. Absolutely nothing they've done on the field suggests they will do any of this.

That's the same tone the majority of the local media has since Fleck got here.

What is everyone seeing that leads them to believe success is around the corner? Because Ohio State slept through 3 quarters, we're supposed to ignore most Big 10 teams beating up on them every other week?

When is the last time they even lost by less than double digits in the Big 10, let alone won?

 

Read the gamer on ESPN1500, you would think they beat Ohio State if you didn't know any better.

The Strib beat writer is slightly more objective, but barely.

[Mr. Brooks]

Fresno St. was not a creampuff win. They have to go 3-3 to "show improvement" in their record and they'll get a chance to have a few Big 10 home games too against the softer part of the Big 10.

 

No one is saying actual wins don't matter, they do. But moral victories can matter too.

Well going 3-3 the rest of the way would qualify as winning some Big10 games, which is what I asked, and you said 3 or 4 years.

 

If they win 3 I'll give him some credit, but I'm just not understanding what anyone has seen to suggest they are capable of really beating anyone in the Big10.