Ryan: Berrios will NOT be called up in September

[sane]

I need a break from this argument, so temporarily I am going to deal with trivial issues.....like Trump vs. Hillary.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Well it was only after they started Suzuki at DH and Nunez multiple times...

I don't think Suzuki DH'd this year. Escobar?

 

I am sure that TR would have turned to Berrios once Escobar and Nunez were required to takes turns as starting pitchers. So his handling of Berrios is perfectly consistent with that of Sano!

[Mike Sixel]

No concern for Duffey and his innings?

[DaveW]

I wish Ryan was concerned with Fien's innings.

[Steve Lein]

 

"Why are there no concerns about Duffey's arm if innings are a concern for Berrios?

So when does Duffey get shut down?!"

 

In Duffy's case, innings are the ONLY concern.

 

In Berrios' case, there are at least three concerns:

1) Innings

2) Unnecessarily taking a spot on the 40-man BEFORE the Rule V draft. (Duffy is already on the 40-man)

3) Berrios is yet not in the MLB rotation, but Duffy is.

 

Soooooo...when does Duffey get shut down?!

[howieramone2]

We promoted Berrios to AAA on July 3rd.  On that day, we held a wild card spot and were calling up Sano (and were getting Ervin Santana back and deploying May as a bullpen reinforcement).

 

A month later, August 3rd, we were STILL in a wild card spot, Sano looked great at the plate, May looked great in the pen, and Berrios looked pretty comfortable at AAA.

 

August clearly should have been the month to, if not call him up, then rest Berrios a bit, or even prep him for a bullpen role.  Instead they treated it like it was any other pitcher, and any other month, just letting him take his regular turns at Rochester until his inevitable innings limit.

 

Zero creativity, zero situational awareness.

He just rebuilt our favorite team for the second time. The next year or so should cement his place in Cooperstown. Millions of knowledgeable and loyal Twins fans regard TR as a savior, not so much the fan board.

 

I'm downtown on game days quite often. The paying fans are having a great time this season, not so much the fan board.

[DaveW]

GMs who win one playoff series get into Cooperstown?

 

Does that mean Ruben Amaro will have his own wing?

[jimmer]

Cooperstown.  Sometimes this place is like Comedy Central.  I'm trying to figure out how much he has actually contributed to rebuilding this team.  A lot of the guys we have and are excited about were either from Smith's time or because were so bad we were able to draft talent like Buxton.  

 

He traded for May, a good move to help the rotation, then he moved him to the pen. Ugh.

 

I also remember how long it took him to rebuild his first time around.

[DaveW]

Also, "having a good time going to a twins game" and "wanting the team to be better" are not mutually exclusive things.

[Mike Sixel]

He just rebuilt our favorite team for the second time. The next year or so should cement his place in Cooperstown. Millions of knowledgeable and loyal Twins fans regard TR as a savior, not so much the fan board.

 

I'm downtown on game days quite often. The paying fans are having a great time this season.

Do they even know he wasn't in charge when Sano was signed?

[Vanimal46]

Holy cow I'm so distracted at work from reading the hot Twins takes.... What is in the water today on TD?

[Halsey Hall]

vodka

[howieramone2]

 

Do they even know he wasn't in charge when Sano was signed?

Mike, is this the TR had nothing to do with the rebuild, all the credit goes to Bill Smith talk?

[blairpaul715]

 

Buxton was always part of TR's plan this year, as was Sano. Berrios never was.

 

The evidence overwhelming points to TR simply sticking to his preseason plan for these guys, not some kind of magic bullet "nearing fatigue" evaluation of Berrios that somehow allows him a final "curtain call" start at Rochester.

 

I am sure TR thinks this is best for Berrios and the team, but he made that decision last winter or perhaps even earlier than that. He just doesn't switch horses midstream, which is refreshing at times but also maddeningly frustrating at others.

He doesnt switch midstream????!!!!!! I disagree, I would ascertain that Meyer was part of his preseason plan, but he soured in AAA, so a different plan was devised..................I dont know that Buxton and Sano were for sure decisions in the offseason to be at the Major league level, but their play dictated they play this season, but if they(Buxton and Sano) were hitting poorly neither would have been brought up to the Majors.

[sane]

Do they even know he wasn't in charge when Sano was signed?

Does ANYONE realize that the guy in charge often acts on information supplied by the guys NOT in charge?

[blairpaul715]

 

The Twins didn't develop Santana, they got him in the rule 5 draft and caught lightning in a bottle. They traded for Liriano.

 

Garza is the only one. Everyone else turned out to be somewhere between: a bust and "meh" (Kyle Loshe, Nick Blackburn, etc)

So drafting an A level player in the rule 5 draft, and he becomes good, is not developing him????? That is ludicris, might as well say also, that Berrios will possibly also be lightning in a bottle or every other top notch pitcher today.............So what do you consider developing???? Both Liriano and Santana were developed by the Twins , even if not drafted or signed as an international FA. I believe both were 20 when they came to the Twins........And both were in A ball. But the Twins didnt devolop them, then nobody developed anyone with your criteria..........So if Hu or Tapia were to make it to the big leagues, would you say that the Rays developed them???? or maybe the Twins???

[DaveW]

Does ANYONE realize that the guy in charge often acts on information supplied by the guys NOT in charge?

Irrelevant. Smith was the GM, which means he made the final call. (And ultimately who would be held accountable for said moves)

[blairpaul715]

 

This means that Terry Ryan never once thought about bring him up due to his age.  Which is a horrible reason, I don't know how age has a correlation to skills in this instance. 

 

Terry Ryan has shown that he and the Twins organization are fine with "just being competitive" like they were in the first 10 years of the 2000's.  Why make a move that could make the team even better when they are "doing fine" right now. 

 

I would like to see him fired, but this season's success has bought him another 5 years especially since the team most likely will be even better the next few season.  So I don't think we can expect any changes coming anytime soon.

How is the team expected to get better , when Ryan makes bad decisions and should be fired? If they win, i guess he is just lucky, if they lose , it is all his fault.

[sane]

Irrelevant. Smith was the GM, which means he made the final call. (And ultimately who would be held accountable for said moves)

No, it is relevant, because it may have been Ryan who recommended signing Sano and Smith ran with Ryan's idea. If you need to blame Ryan because he wasn't in charge at the time, you are going to pull a hammy stretching at your age.

[blairpaul715]

 

Nobody has pinned the Twins chances simply on having Berrios in the bullpen.  He gives the Twins another potentially solid to very good late inning arm (like Finnegan or Carlos Martinez or David Price or an endless group of called up starters).  Now that Perkins is struggling with an injury and not pitching well that might mean that Fien or JR Graham (I like but has struggled) are pitching in the 7th inning.

I will dismiss this since you dont even know JR Graham has been on the disabled list for over a week.

[blairpaul715]

 

I think it'll be like 13 days for the to 'get ready' next year. 

And I am fine with that!!

[blairpaul715]

 

It's not like those posters have to look too hard:
Hunter signing
stauffer signing
Nolasco signing
Santana signing
Suzuki extension
Lack of doing anything for the most part at the trade deadline
Hughes extension
Berrios situation
Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc

Hunter signing was excellent, where would we be without him??? Now how he is playing, i agree he should be playing less, but he has been getting less that earlier in the yr........on the others, if you have a quote of when these things were happening and your feelings at the time and you disagree with all, you are maybe smarter than the average TWINKIE!! The only move i wasnt for was the Stauffer signing, and I didnt really have an opinion on Hughes extension at the time, but he looked to be by far our best pitcher when resigned, and he was only 28ish??

[jimmer]

The Hunter signing was excellent? The Hunter signing was bad  (and predictably so).  We've gotten less than 1M worth of value on a 10M contract.  Where would we be without him?  There's no way to know for sure, but looking at what he's done throughout the year (poor defense and an OPS under .700 from a RF) I imagine at least this well if not better.

[kab21]

 

I will dismiss this since you dont even know JR Graham has been on the disabled list for over a week.

The point doesn't change.  This bullpen is not good.

[Kwak]

Not promoting Berrios is leaving an arrow out of the quiver--and an important one at that!  Service time? Bah, humbug!  That can be dealt with next year easily.  Innings limit?  There is no credible evidence supporting it considering Berrios actual innings pitched (total pitches thrown would actually be more relevant than innings pitched--but again no credible evidence to support a limit).  Consider days of yore--when starters routinely threw many more than 200 innings in a season.  
 

This decision is the "old Ryan"--"I do things differently because can--and I'm smarter than everybody else."  Too bad that isn't true.

[SwainZag]

 

The Hunter signing was excellent? The Hunter signing was bad  (and predictably so).  We've gotten less than 1M worth of value on a 10M contract.  Where would we be without him?  There's no way to know for sure, but looking at what he's done throughout the year (poor defense and an OPS under .700 from a RF) I imagine at least this well if not better.

 

You are just going to negate anything Hunter did in May or June and just assume they would have done better? Without the insane May they had, you might not have seen Buxton or Sano as early as we did.  Hunter is more than likely overpaid, but just the early season impact he had on this team, not to mention bridging a gap between when Hicks/Arcia was struggling and Buxton still in AA made the signing worthwhile.  Hunter has been pretty bad after the break, you can't take away the impact he had early season though.

[jimmer]

 

You are just going to negate anything Hunter did in May or June and just assume they would have done better? Without the insane May they had, you might not have seen Buxton or Sano as early as we did.  Hunter is more than likely overpaid, but just the early season impact he had on this team, not to mention bridging a gap between when Hicks/Arcia was struggling and Buxton still in AA made the signing worthwhile.  Hunter has been pretty bad after the break, you can't take away the impact he had early season though.

I'm not negating anything the positive things he did, but I also don't dismiss the negative things he did either. They all count.  The time he did well helped the winning and the times he did poorly contributed to the losing.  Or do we only want to count his first half?  He's been a 0.1 WAR player for the season. Not even one win above replacement.  That doesn't equate to an excellent signing. 

[USAFChief]

There are threads to restate long held opinions about Hunter.

 

This isn't one of them.

[SwainZag]

 

I'm not negating anything the positive things he did, but I also don't dismiss the negative things he did either. They all count.  The time he did well helped the winning and the times he did poorly contributed to the losing.  Or do we only want to count his first half?  He's been a 0.1 WAR player for the season. Not even one win above replacement.  That doesn't equate to an excellent signing. 

While I might not agree it was excellent like blair said, I won't agree that is was bad either.

[Major League Ready]

I would like to have seen Berrios too but I am taken back by the number of people that insist it was a no brainer, there are no legitimate reasons to keep him down and the FO must be incompetent.  I can think of several but the major disconnect is that some posters see the prize as making the post season and therefore “do anything it takes”.   Those with the skillset and experience with managing assets recognizes the wildcard now means a one game playoff to get into a playoff series.  Therefore, the odds of getting to a playoff series is .5 X whatever your projected odds of getting to a wildcard spot at the point in time you make any decisions.   

1. It is very legit to manage Berrios innings.  Going to the bullpen has more wear and tear than it might seem given the number of times they warm up.
2. Managing service time is standard practice.  Whining about this is ridiculous.  For god sake the Cubs kept Chris Bryant down and there are countless other examples.
3. It is impossible to predict if he would shine or struggle at first.  The best indication would be his personal history which would suggest he will struggle at first when moving up.  Obviously, that would do more harm than good to the team’s chances. 
4. He has never been in the bullpen and they have 2 other guys that have been lights out in this role in AAA.

In terms of deadline moves, not giving up assets at the deadline was far from incompetent.  As a matter of fact, when giving consideration to the odds of getting to a playoff series not just a wildcard game at that time, you could make a better case IMO that it would have been incompetent to give up any assets but as it turns out the Jepsen addition was really making a difference at a marginal cost.  That bullpen was looking pretty good after the Jepsen addition until Perk start to slide but blaming the front office for that is ridiculous.  

 

They also are not going to be perfect.  Posters here (including me) are wrong often yet when the FO gets something wrong they are incompetent morons.  What is really ridiculous is the persistent presumption by many that they are better equipped for the job than those who have them.  If you have the credentials to seriously be considered for the job than go ahead and insist you know how to do the job better.  If not, you might want to consider the reason you don’t agree is that it is you that don’t understand.