First Wave of September Call Ups

[PseudoSABR]

 

My question is: what else do Kepler and Berrios have to possibly do to earn a spot on this expanded roster? If someone can answer that, I will give this beef a rest.

There's plenty of reporting that the Twins don't think Kepler can handle ML pitching, despite what he's hitting at AA.  Arcia and (soon) Hicks are better options for reasonable depth. 

 

Berrios just pitched today; it's not clear that the Twins won't call him up.  Even if they elect to not bring him up, there is some organizational strikes against a call up: youth/professional inexperience, hence an inning threshold; he's not on the forty man roster; and there's no clear-cut pitcher to replace (Pelfrey and Milone are mediocre, but that they need replacement is not clear-cut) (I like this reason least, because all the pitchers are mediocre, and Berrios is bound to be better than one of them--which one?).   

 

All that said, if Berrios is showing no signs of fatigue, and penchant for ML dominance, bring the dude up.

[sane]

 

is this sarcasm? They can call them up now and still "keep them down" enough to save that extra year if need be.

Berrios has zero years on the 40-man. If he is added to the 40-man and plays this year, his clock starts running.

[sane]

"A player with six or more years of Major League service who has not executed a contract for the next season is eligible to become a free agent"

[curt1965]

The Twins face 3 tough lefties in the upcoming Chicago series. I would guess

that means Robinson gets another start in LF for Rosario. I wouldn't mind Joe sitting against Sale (at least), and having Vargus DH with Sano at 3rd and Plouffe at 1B.

Too bad we don't have a power hitting right handed hitter on the bench the next 3 days (Pinto). Don't know if the Twins are being frugal on just plain stupid!

[sane]

"A player with three or more years of service, but less than six years, may file for salary arbitration. In addition, a player can be classified as a "Super Two" and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 22 percent (increased from 17 percent in previous agreements) in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season"

[USAFChief]

Opening a roster spot for Fryer is somewhat questionable, but another catcher does allow for more pinch hitting.

 

I'm fine with Kepler not getting a call.

 

But why Berrios hasn't had some role in Minnesota for a few weeks now is aggravating to say the least.

[Oxtung]

 

Right, no Arcia. Thou has earned disfavor.

There are plenty of reasons for not calling Arcia up that have nothing to do with being in a doghouse.

[Otwins]

I thought the point Dave was making was that you can call Berrios up this year and if you are worried about service time keep him in the minors to start next year. He most likely will be starting next year in the minors either way.  Would have to stay a month longer if we call him up this year.  May be why Ryan is waiting. It would be 5 days less of service time and he is not going to pitch before next weekend.

 

Just hoping he gets called up this year

[70charger]

I dunno, rather than bitch about who didn't get called up in an unofficial posting, especially those who may end up getting called up anyway, I think I'd rather focus on those who did.

 

I'm particularly looking forward to seeing Vargas in this group. His hitting is intriguing, the power is real, and I'd like to see him build on his learning in the minors this year and come back strong in spring training.

[Secondary User]

 

I'd LOVE to hear him give an explanation how Berrios isn't one of the best 15! Pitchers that can help the Minnesota Twins win now, in the rotation or in the pen.

 

I love how managing assets for the future is seen by some as the unholy abomination of terrible planning.

 

Not increasing a kid's innings pitched by 40% and risking an arm injury for your most valued asset isn't this hair brained terrible idea.  Not calling a guy up so that you can call him up 15 days into the season next year and maximize his contribution for a 2016 team that looks to be even stronger while still maintaining a 7th year of control as opposed to keeping him down until May next year if you still want that year.

 

I have been on the fence about whether Berrios should be called up or not, but this insistence by some that it's a terrible and ill begotten method of running a team when there are perfectly justifiable reasons for doing so is just asinine.  I'm happy you want to push all the chips in for a push for the second wild card spot.  That's fine.  It's your prerogative to think so.  But it is not by a long shot the only train of thought that holds water

[BoomBoom]

I think Kepler deserves a shot because he is on the 40 man and has played exceptionally well this season.  That being said - How your minor league season went is no indication as to how your MLB season will go.  Sano is playing better in the MLB than he did in Chattanooga and Buxton was just hitting .400+ in AAA before his MLB struggles.  All these call ups should be for a reason, as to what they think a particular prospect can bring to the table during their playoff push.  Kepler certainly doesn't hurt their already dreadful pinch hitting resume and his being on the 40 man makes that much more sense.  

 

You never know which rookie makes you better, you only know each:  "Have a particular set of skills".  As for my call ups in a few weeks - Kepler would be "Taken"

[h2oface]

Berrios should have been up today to be eligible for the postseason rosters, even if he was used in relief for the rest of the year and was found ready for a roll like Finnegan had for KC last year. Now........ I don't really care. Berrios should be livid. I would be. Santana is not eligible, even if he does continue to pitch like Sunday. Even more reason for me to want a new GM immediately if not sooner (like I don't have a thousand all ready.........). And I don't feel asinine to think so, nor will I accuse those that think differently of anything that would infer that. They saved Strasburg, supposedly, for better things. How is that working out for Washington? Seeing what would happen with Berrios in relief would not be even close to pushing all the chips in, and I would not even call him the "most valued asset", nor is it a given that you would be risking his arm as is a trendy way to think about a healthy young man. He is not a kid. It would have just been a smart experiment that could have been carefully monitored. Now........... we will never know.

[Platoon]

Right, no Arcia. Thou has earned disfavor.

I hope this whole deal with Oswaldo gets figured out, from both the FO and his side. He seems to be getting the Brian Dozier treatment from a few years ago. Players that can hit like Arcia, don't just forget how to hit. There's something else going on. I hope the Pirates don't have to start fixing our hitters also?

[Seth Stohs]

Max Kepler's last 8 games, he's 3-27 (.111/.242/.111). Obviously that's a small sample, but why not let him get it going again before calling him up. Oh, and let him play every day and get 4-5 plate appearances every day. He's had a great year in AA, and he might be ready to help the Twins, but I'd side on the side of more development. He'll (in my opinion) be up for the last 2-3 weeks and get some experience.

 

Regarding Berrios... I think the "mistake" was made earlier in the season in controlling the innings. He's at 161.1 innings now. That means maybe 14-15 more innings. His upside is so high that my biggest concern would be his long-term well-being. I don't think the Twins care about service time. And, even if they do, the 3-4 weeks he'd be up this year can be pitched in Rochester to start next year. I don't think they'd worry about that. I did watch all of his pitches last night. He definitely didn't have his best stuff. He was struggling to put batters away. His fastball was up and that's a concern. I mean, there are baseball reasons to wonder how he can do at this point. I think he should have been up in early August. I think he could be up this year to help as a long reliever. I'm not outraged that he isn't. And frankly, I think he still could be called up in 3-4 days, or in 7 days. Very possible.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Berrios would get the call if the team was pretty sure there's a spot for him in 2016.  I'm not seeing that, and since he doesn't need to be added this offseason, I have no problems leaving him in Rochester.  Kepler I don't understand. He's on the 40 man, and even a month of a few pinch hit at bats and once a week starts could be beneficial I'd think.

[Platoon]

For me the Berrios train left the station about a month ago, when the BP was REALLY struggling. Between innings count and service time, I doubt you will see him. And as far as using some semi exotic injury rules manipulation to bring him up in Sept, that does not seem a TR trait at all. Kepler: both the fans, and the Twins FO who use either Sano or Hicks as examples of whether his bat is MLB ready, don't really know. Players come up and suck, and players come up and rake. Some who suck get over it, and some who rake initially get sent down for awhile. The Twins always tend towards the very conservative approach, and if you could be the proverbial mouse in the corner, I guarantee service time is the deciding factor involved.

[goulik]

This is also a preliminary list. General managers have to be concerned about who takes these guys places on the current teams for the remainder of the minor league seasons. They also have to be concerned about relations with those towns and teams that are wanting playoff runs. There are lots of factors the MLB fan does not have to care about

[Gene Larkin]

The time to call up Berrios was when Milone got hurt. Instead they call up the less accomplished Tyler Duffey. Then after Hughes gets hurt they put May back in the rotation on short rest for one start and then call up Duffey again, despite his poor start at Toronto. That should have made it clear the Twins FO had no intention of calling up Berrios this year. Pushing up against an inning limit, why would they change course now?

[Shane Wahl]

They are not calling up Berrios. Why keep him throwing innings at freaking Rochester if they are going to call him up at all this year?

 

The Twins claim certain things about Kepler. I do not trust them to be correct *to the point where he isn't called up* but I could see Kepler having real issues in MLB. I still would prefer to see him.

 

Vargas and Santana are hitting well right now. Santana is *hitting home runs* right now. If he gets a bit of his slugging back from last year, he could be really helpful down the stretch. In the playoffs . . . he can run and play short. We know Molitor is pinch-hitting for almost no one, but the most likely guys would be Suzuki and Escobar in the 8th and 9th innings. Or Suzuki, Mauer, Plouffe will be pinch run for. Vargas and Santana fit nicely in those two respective roles.

[Mike Sixel]

I guess Berrios isnt all that good, that he can't help a playoff team this year. Or, 2022 is more important than this year. What is the message? I really want Ryan gone. Just another example of not going for the win, just like his refusal to ever acquire a difference maker in his previous tenure at the breaks. It is not in his dna to go for it.

[spinowner]

 

During these past few great starts, Berrios probably thought he was pitching for a promotion to MLB. Poor kid.

If that's really the case he needs to get over it. A good athlete does his or her best no matter what the situation is. Everybody knows he'll be pitching in the majors when the time comes. And the people who know best about when the time is right know more than we do. I'd like to see what he can do in the majors but it's what's best for Berrios, not what's best for the major league team, that matters.

[Craig Arko]

Congratulations to the players who are coming up. You're in for a ride, young men.

[USAFChief]

I love how managing assets for the future is seen by some as the unholy abomination of terrible planning.

 

Not increasing a kid's innings pitched by 40% and risking an arm injury for your most valued asset isn't this hair brained terrible idea.  Not calling a guy up so that you can call him up 15 days into the season next year and maximize his contribution for a 2016 team that looks to be even stronger while still maintaining a 7th year of control as opposed to keeping him down until May next year if you still want that year.

 

I have been on the fence about whether Berrios should be called up or not, but this insistence by some that it's a terrible and ill begotten method of running a team when there are perfectly justifiable reasons for doing so is just asinine.  I'm happy you want to push all the chips in for a push for the second wild card spot.  That's fine.  It's your prerogative to think so.  But it is not by a long shot the only train of thought that holds water

If its an innings thing, how are the innings pitched in Rochester less harmful than innings in Minneapolis? Since he hasn't been shut down, innings isnt a justification for anything. Whatever they think he has left for 2015 could be pitched in Minnesota, and a bullpen role staring a few weeks ago, or now even, would have added less innings than a rotation spot in Rochester.

 

If its control in 2022, well, personally I think that's just....asinine. Trying to predict what next week looks like is difficult. Trying to predict what your MLB needs will be seven seasons from now, or the value of one 21 year old will be, is impossible. And even if you could, why is that inherently more important than the certainty of a postseason chase today?

[Otto von Ballpark]

I love how managing assets for the future is seen by some as the unholy abomination of terrible planning.

 

Not increasing a kid's innings pitched by 40% and risking an arm injury for your most valued asset isn't this hair brained terrible idea. Not calling a guy up so that you can call him up 15 days into the season next year and maximize his contribution for a 2016 team that looks to be even stronger while still maintaining a 7th year of control as opposed to keeping him down until May next year if you still want that year.

 

I have been on the fence about whether Berrios should be called up or not, but this insistence by some that it's a terrible and ill begotten method of running a team when there are perfectly justifiable reasons for doing so is just asinine. I'm happy you want to push all the chips in for a push for the second wild card spot. That's fine. It's your prerogative to think so. But it is not by a long shot the only train of thought that holds water

That is terrible planning. Why? Because it only takes ~6 days service time to audition him in MLB this year. If he doesn't look like he will adjust quickly or is fatiguing, you can option him back down after 6 days. The hold him down for 21 days next year instead of 15 to get your extra season of control. He only nets 34 days extra service time this year if he is actually good and helping.

 

Also, pitching out of the pen, he wouldn't blow by any innings limit (particularly if he hadn't been allowed these last couple starts in Rochester).

 

Don't' want to move him to the pen? Fine, but this team has been in contention since June, no reason we couldn't have adjusted his schedule (skipped starts, extra long AS break, etc.) to allow Berrios to make September starts in MLB.

 

So yeah, not even attempting to use him in any role during a pennant race, given our current pitching staff, seems like very poor planning.

[spinowner]

 

I guess Berrios isnt all that good, that he can't help a playoff team this year. Or, 2022 is more important than this year. What is the message? I really want Ryan gone. Just another example of not going for the win, just like his refusal to ever acquire a difference maker in his previous tenure at the breaks. It is not in his dna to go for it.

I think this is a disingenuous argument. It's not 2022 that Ryan is looking at, it's 2016. And wanting Ryan gone, well, it seems to me that there has been immense improvement in the state of the organization since he took over, and it's been less than five years. Baseball organizations can't be improved overnight without huge money. Think Yankee money. Whether Ryan is the best person to move the organization forward further from here is certainly a legitimate point of discussion but based on how things are now compared to how things were when he took over it's hard to say he hasn't done well.

[sorney]

 

"A player with six or more years of Major League service who has not executed a contract for the next season is eligible to become a free agent"

I'm not ripping you on this at all, but man, if a player is good, and the Twins have to pay more money for a player because they brought him up early, isn't that a good thing?!?!  That means the player is worth having around....I don't know, I just get tired of that excuse for not bringing up prospects.

 

[dbminn]

Ryan made four obvious and intelligent selections for the first round of call-ups. All have some MLB experience and all have been playing well at AAA.

 

The three hitters add to other bench players who have had solid years: Robinson and Nunez. Robinson is an very good defender (7.3 UZR/150) and baserunner. Nunez has been a league average hitter (101 WRC+) while getting only 170 PA across the entire season.   

 

I would love to see Berrios and I think he could add to the team. I hope Kepler gets called up at the end of the MiLB season, just to get an idea about what could be in front of him.

 

In any case, the Twins are playing decent baseball and the four additions are good bets to help the team in the next month.

[HitInAPinch]

Phil Miller is reporting, from a Twins source:

 

"First baseman Kennys Vargas, shortstop Danny Santana, catcher Eric Fryer and righthanded reliever Michael Tonkin will be at Target Field on Tuesday.

More are expected to join the team once minor league seasons end next Monday or, in the case of Class AA Chattanooga, after the Southern League playoffs."

 

For those interested in Berrios:  "The 21-year-old Puerto Rican has pitched a career-high 161 innings this season and is not on the 40-man roster, so promoting him would require waiving a player."

 

Berrios added: “I respect the boss and the decision.”

 

Will Berrios get called up?  Probably.  He deserves it for the great year he's had.  Will he pitch?  meh.

 

 

[Monkeypaws]

We'll enjoy that extra year of Berrios in his prime, well worth a start or two at this point.

 

Also, doesn't he usually get knocked around his first start or two at a new level, then settle in?

 

No guarantee how well he woulda coulda pitched in the majors this season.

[Mike Sixel]

 

We'll enjoy that extra year of Berrios in his prime, well worth a start or two at this point.

 

Also, doesn't he usually get knocked around his first start or two at a new level, then settle in?

 

No guarantee how well he woulda coulda pitched in the majors this season.

 

Odds they are this close to the playoffs in 2022 are what? THIS year, they are in contention, that has real value. We have zero idea if that year will matter at all at this point. Berrios is one of the 20 best prospects in baseball, continuing to think he's not ready, I don't get it.......he's ready.