Article: Switching Gears

[tobi0040]

 

The twins do not deserve to be a .500 team right now.  And TR will figure out a way to avoid the common sense you just used to fix the roster for next year

 

We will just have to disagree.

 

I think Sano, May, Buxton, and Berrios will all be with the squad all year next year barring injury. May and Berrios in the rotation. 

 

Berrios and Buxton will be up Sept. 1 of this year at the latest.

Edited August 14, 2015 by tobi0040

[Everyday Eddy]

 

We will just have to disagree.

 

I think Sano, May, Buxton, and Berrios will all be with the squad all year next year barring injury. May and Berrios in the rotation. 

 

Berrios and Buxton will be up Sept. 1 of this year at the latest.

 

I'm sure they will be on the roster.  So will Nolasco, Hughes and Santana. Also nothing about Ryan's track record suggests he's not going to sign a couple more Robinsons, Pelfreys, Nolascos, Stauffers, etc.   He has rarely made a good signing or trade, which is why I have no faith he will suddenly figure out that aspect of being a GM.

[tobi0040]

 

I'm sure they will be on the roster.  So will Nolasco, Hughes and Santana. Also nothing about Ryan's track record suggests he's not going to sign a couple more Robinsons, Pelfreys, Nolascos, Stauffers, etc.   He has rarely made a good signing or trade, which is why I have no faith he will suddenly figure out that aspect of being a GM.

 

From 2011 to 2014 we had about the worst rotation in baseball.  Literally no pitching prospects stepped up during that time period, save Gibson last year who was still a little hit or miss.  That is why those guys were signed.

 

Gibson and May have looked like they are pieces and Berrios has not skipped a beat on his march up here. So I don't see any new additions to the rotation and Pelfrey will be gone.

 

Personally, I think Terry is salivating at the cheap labor he has coming through right now.  The last thing he wants to do is sign another Nolasco or Santana.

Edited August 14, 2015 by tobi0040

[Everyday Eddy]

 

From 2011 to 2014 we had about the worst rotation in baseball.  Literally no pitching prospects stepped up during that time period, save Gibson last year who was still a little hit or miss.  That is why those guys were signed.

 

Gibson and May have looked like they are pieces and Berrios has not skipped a beat on his march up here. So I don't see any new additions to the rotation and Pelfrey will be gone.

 

And who's fault was that?

[tobi0040]

 

And who's fault was that?

 

Probably more Bill Smith, who was the GM from 2007 to 2011 than Terry.  He traded away both Johan Santana and Matt Garza. And basically whiffed on every first round and supplemental pick from 2008 to 2011, save Gibson who was out for two years with TJ.

 

Garza had a sub 4.00 ERA each year from 2007 to 2013.  Had the Twins played their cards right with Johan he would not have needed a 7 year deal and he had 3 more good years thru age 31.  If any of this is on Terry it is that one.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2015 by tobi0040

[SwainZag]

 

And who's fault was that?

 

It was result of a poor stretch of  drafting over a 5-6 year period.  If you are TR heading into 2013 with a severe lack of talent on the big league club and severe lack of talent in the high minor leagues, what do you do?  

[Everyday Eddy]

 

It was result of a poor stretch of  drafting over a 5-6 year period.  If you are TR heading into 2013 with a severe lack of talent on the big league club and severe lack of talent in the high minor leagues, what do you do?  

 

I fire my scouting staff

[tobi0040]

 

I fire my scouting staff

 

Let’s take a step back.

 

We win 95 or so games in 2010 with a $115M payroll.  The next year with the same roster we keep payroll at $115M and we win like 62 games.  It is an aging roster, most of the key guys are 30+ and want a fair amount of money.  Our farm system is in the lower 1/3 of the league and the key guys, like Sano and Gibson are not ready.   Ownership decides to tear the team apart and rebuild with an emphasis on rebuilding a sustainable team.   Given the situation I think that was the right move to make.  That roster/farm system was not going to go from 62 wins to 92 wins in a year or two.  We were too far away.

 

Let me first say that I don’t like everything Terry did.  But he was brought into rebuild the team to a sustainable winning team.  We have the second best farm system and several of those guys have stepped up.  It is hard for me to sit here and say he failed at completing his task.

[SwainZag]

 

I fire my scouting staff

 

Great. How does that help with 2013 and on?

[Everyday Eddy]

 

Let’s take a step back.

 

We win 95 or so games in 2010 with a $115M payroll.  The next year with the same roster we keep payroll at $115M and we win like 62 games.  It is an aging roster, most of the key guys are 30+ and want a fair amount of money.  Our farm system is in the lower 1/3 of the league and the key guys, like Sano and Gibson are not ready.   Ownership decides to tear the team apart and rebuild with an emphasis on rebuilding a sustainable team.   Given the situation I think that was the right move to make.  That roster/farm system was not going to go from 62 wins to 92 wins in a year or two.  We were too far away.

 

Let me first say that I don’t like everything Terry did.  But he was brought into rebuild the team to a sustainable winning team.  We have the second best farm system and several of those guys have stepped up.  It is hard for me to sit here and say he failed at completing his t

 

Great. How does that help with 2013 and on?

 

 

If your scouting staff leads you to the worst farm system in baseball you get a new scouting staff.   I can't begin to guess how the team might change had a different scouting staff been brought in.   Could be better, could be worse.   But there's this thing called accountability that should come into play.

Giving the twins scouts/GM credit for making an easy decision drafting buxton and another no brainer to sign Sano is stupid.   Any person on this earth could have made those simple decisions.   It's the years that the twins were decent and hitting on no draft picks that they should be judged

Edited August 14, 2015 by Everyday Eddy

[SwainZag]

 

If your scouting staff leads you to the worst farm system in baseball you get a new scouting staff.   I can't begin to guess how the team might change had a different scouting staff been brought in.   Could be better, could be worse.   But there's this thing called accountability that should come into play.

Giving the twins scouts/GM credit for making an easy decision drafting buxton and another no brainer to sign Sano is stupid.   Any person on this earth could have made those simple decisions.   It's the years that the twins were decent and hitting on no draft picks that they should be judged

 

Firing the scouting department doesn't answer the question what TR was going to do to put together something for 2013.  There were a slew of bad options.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If your scouting staff leads you to the worst farm system in baseball you get a new scouting staff.

The Twins never had the worst farm system in baseball. I can't remember them ever dropping below #25, actually.

 

Mistakes were made and the Twins didn't draft very well but coming off a decade of success, it shouldn't have been a surprise the Twins spend a period of time scuffling in the bottom third of farm systems. IIRC, they picked in the top 15 just once from 2002-2011.

 

edit: I just glanced through old farm system rankings and didn't see anyone rank the Twins below #22 from 2008-2010. Most were in the high teens, it seems (and some were actually top ten, gah...).

[Everyday Eddy]

 

Firing the scouting department doesn't answer the question what TR was going to do to put together something for 2013.  There were a slew of bad options.

 

Sorry I misinterpreted the question.   He was stuck with a lot of garbage that year.   Some of it on him though.   There was no reason not to deal Josh Willingham

[tobi0040]

 

If your scouting staff leads you to the worst farm system in baseball you get a new scouting staff.   I can't begin to guess how the team might change had a different scouting staff been brought in.   Could be better, could be worse.   But there's this thing called accountability that should come into play.

Giving the twins scouts/GM credit for making an easy decision drafting buxton and another no brainer to sign Sano is stupid.   Any person on this earth could have made those simple decisions.   It's the years that the twins were decent and hitting on no draft picks that they should be judged

 

A ton of people had Mark Appel #1 on their draft board and a lot of GM's would have gone with Appel or someone like Gausman who was viewed as a ML starter in short order given the MLB need.  I don't think drafting Buxton was a lock.

 

Regarding Sano, we offered him the most money.  So we absolutely should give the GM's credit for that.  We placed a number of $3.5 on him and it was higher than anyone else.  That is the definition of good scouting.

Edited August 14, 2015 by tobi0040

[SwainZag]

 

A ton of people had Mark Appel #1 on their draft board and a lot of GM's would have gone with Appel or someone like Gausman who was viewed as a ML starter in short order given the MLB need.  I don't think drafting Buxton was a lock.

 

Regarding Sano, we offered him the most money.  So we absolutely should give the GM's credit for that.  We placed a number of $3.5 on him and it was higher than anyone else.  That is the definition of good scouting.

 

I remember a lot of people ripping the Buxton selection of being a toolsy HS outfielder when the Twins lacked starting pitching in their system.

[Jham]

I think Terry Ryan really deserves some blame for the initial collapse, but he also deserves credit for the relative rebound.  I think he took it pretty hard when we traded away Castillo and it deflated the team.  This was back when they had the old graded FA system.  We would have received a compensatory draft pick probably better than the prospects we received in the deal.  He also knew that he'd left us in impossible positions with Hunter, Nathan, and especially Santana.  He pawned off the fall-out of the mismanagement on Smith.  Smith made things worse.  Ryan has since gone back to what initially made him successful: shrewd management of young talent and low-level FA signings.  He also seems to be embracing the things that led to his team's collapse, ie not taking every opportunity to add talent to the roster.  When our draft picks are in the 20's instead of 1-5, it is less likely we'll be able to consistently replace the talent that leaves with in-house options.  

Edited August 14, 2015 by Jham