Article: Twins Transactions: Buxton Activated, Optioned to AAA

[jimmer]

 

Sure, if they do that it doesn't matter much. But they could have left him on rehab until August 27th. And either way, barring injury they would have to demote someone for 3 days to get Buxton back here before roster expansion. (And I wonder if that person could be recalled again before the 10 day period? Not sure it applies in September...)

Yes, but can someone build up timing and hand strength in the majors, or can that just happen in AAA? :-)

 

I hope this was taken in jest by those reading it.  This reason has been batted back and forth and now it's just fun.  No insults intended.

Edited August 11, 2015 by jimmer

[Brock Beauchamp]

This is really the heart of it. If he's back up September 1st most of this teeth-knashing is beyond silly. If he's not back up at that point, then it's time to release the hounds.

Yes, this. If Byron's "demotion" goes well beyond the expected rehab time (ie. 9/1), then it's time to get pissed off. Now is not that time.

 

Why do we care if he was demoted? If he successfully rehabs and is back in Minnesota on August 28th, what's the big deal? The end result is the same.

[John Bonnes]

 

John, this does come off as somewhat insulting.  "Extreme"?  "Nearly detached from reality"?  "Fringe"?  "Borderline untethered"?

 

.

.

.

 

EDIT TO ADD: Not that my assessment above is any more accurate, but I have no interest in this kind of selective fact presenting to paint other people's views as extreme.

 

It's a fair criticism. I'm trying not be  insulting but recognize how I am. But I don't know how else to convey just how out of left field this suggestion would seem to anybody not in this thread.

 

To suggest the Twins should bench one of the (if not "the") most popular Twins of the last twenty years, who is viewed inside and outside of the organization as a leader, who is helping to lead this resurgence AND who has been one of the top four guys in the lineup while they're still playing meaningful baseball to get a prospect, regardless of his Baseball America ranking, is never going to happen. Again, not for any organization at any time.

 

Listen, if I came out here and said they should bench Mauer, move Sano to first, Hunter to DH and insert Buxton, I have to think you would think it ludicrous. But Hunter is outperforming Mauer, more popular than Mauer and seen as more beneficial to the youngsters performance than Mauer. That suggestion, which nobody even cares to raise, is probably more likely than this. It's that far out there.

 

 

John, in your second paragraph, during your attempt at amateur psychology, you point out that some people want the team to give up, so they in essence no longer invest themselves in a losing cause? Or is it possible that many of these same people see it differently. Either those who see this as another in a long line of decisions that almost invariably go towards a veteran presence over raw talent. Or, those of us who never thought Hunter should have been signed by this team, this year, and saw his signing as a sop to the casual fan base. The "Hey Torii's back" group! Frankly I am in both of the aforementioned camps!

 

Well, I get that, but this doesn't change the past. In fact, that's kind of my point. Grumping about this is more a factor of not being happy with past decisions than evaluating this one.

 

And not to change the topic - but this might be a good new thread: was the Hunter signing a good one? I'd be happy to expound on why it was in another thread. (I have, by the way, started one on re-signing Hunter for next year. That's going to be the real question, in my mind.)

[Mike Sixel]

Smart organizations figured out sunk costs in the 1980s, literally......if not sooner. Hunter and Mauer are sunk costs, that absolutely should be cut/benched (more so Mauer). It just is what it is.

 

Winning brings fans, are you suggesting this market wouldn't love Buxton like they loved Kirby, Denard, Torii eventually?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Smart organizations figured out sunk costs in the 1980s, literally......if not sooner. Hunter and Mauer are sunk costs, that absolutely should be cut/benched (more so Mauer). It just is what it is.

 

Winning brings fans, are you suggesting this market wouldn't love Buxton like they loved Kirby, Denard, Torii eventually?

 

Has there ever been an example of someone "cut" in baseball like Mauer?

 

I tend to think anyone suggesting this is even a possibility isn't really trying to be realistic.  That's to say nothing of the merit of the idea itself, but more to do with keep the discussion out of a fantasy land.

[Mike Sixel]

Then bench him to playing around 40 games a year.

 

I can't think of any off the top of my head, I know guys get injured, and 1 guy retired a couple years ago, but I'd bet it is rare.

 

Doesn't make it right, btw......just, as you say, reality.

[drjim]

I'm more interested in dealing with Mauer when there is a clear replacement.

 

He's not a zero, just obviously not worth his contract.

[nicksaviking]

I'm more interested in dealing with Mauer when there is a clear replacement.

He's not a zero, just obviously not worth his contract.

To be fair, it's harder to find a clear replacement if Mauer's playing everyday and blocking any would be usurpers.

[Mike Sixel]

he is actually a zero or so right now

[USAFChief]

 

I'm more interested in dealing with Mauer when there is a clear replacement.

He's not a zero, just obviously not worth his contract.

That's a fair point, and I think we all can have legitimate hope for a return to something better than this, too.

 

But it's a problem, and potentially a big one, in the not distant future.

[tobi0040]

 

This whole "he has to go to AAA to face harder pitching" thing cracks me up.

 

when I push to have guys go to AAA, like Kepler or Buxton earlier, I am told that it doesn't matter, there isn't much difference in the pitching, or "you can jump right from AA to the majors"........now I am told that Buxton has to go to AAA because the pitching is better and you really should go to every level first.....I am confused since many of these people are the same people making two different arguments.

 

Really a two part process for me.

 

Should Buxton be on a rehab type assignment right now?  I think that is a relatively easy case to make.  He was out six weeks.  Established veterans out six weeks would rehab, let alone a guy that has played 11 games.

 

Should he go to AA or AAA?  I would rather see him in AAA facing better pitching, even if it is a very slight difference.

 

I think we are caught up in this demoted and released business. I am going to wait to be all ticked off until I see what happens.  Guessing this is a non-issue in a few weeks.

[drjim]

 

That's a fair point, and I think we all can have legitimate hope for a return to something better than this, too.

 

But it's a problem, and potentially a big one, in the not distant future.

 

Huge problem, not disputing that. But cutting him would not exactly solve it. At least any time soon.

 

I do think he could take a more limited role as soon as this September and maybe limiting games could make him more productive.

[drjim]

 

To be fair, it's harder to find a clear replacement if Mauer's playing everyday and blocking any would be usurpers.

 

Maybe, but only if all OF and DH spots are locked up. I don't exactly buy that yet.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Maybe, but only if all OF and DH spots are locked up. I don't exactly buy that yet.

We're pretty close if some are arguing there aren't enough opportunities for Buxton and Arcia right now...

[drjim]

We're pretty close if some are arguing there aren't enough opportunities for Buxton and Arcia right now...

I am not among the "some" referenced. It is not a lack of opportunity keeping those guys down

[Otto von Ballpark]

I am not among the "some" referenced. It is not a lack of opportunity keeping those guys down

Well, the thread starter and site founder has repeatedly asserted that a reduction in Hunter's playing time is "bordering on unhinged". Between that and Sano, Hicks, and Rosario, it certainly sounds like the OF/DH inn is full at the moment.

 

And we're very near the point where Arcia and Buxton should be getting MLB reps regardless of their AAA performance (and actually, AAA will not be a 2015 option for either of them anymore in less than a month).

[tobi0040]

 

Well, the thread starter and site founder has repeatedly asserted that a reduction in Hunter's playing time is "bordering on unhinged". Between that and Sano, Hicks, and Rosario, it certainly sounds like the OF/DH inn is full at the moment.

And we're very near the point where Arcia and Buxton should be getting MLB reps regardless of their AAA performance (and actually, AAA will not be a 2015 option for either of them anymore in less than a month).

 

 

Definitely a numbers game.  It is easy to forget though that Arcia had the job and lost it.  Other guys stepped up and held onto the job. That is not a bad thing.  Arcia had the better part of two years without any competition.  He hit righties very well, but really struggled against lefties and looked awful in the OF.  The gap between him offensively is not wide, relative to Rosario 1.0 and Hicks 3.0 (if a gap even exists).   Definitely in a pickle here and Hunter should be the one to go. 

 

What I fear happening is we lose Arcia for nothing.  Wouldn't platooning him against righties be better than losing him for nothing? The guy has value against righties, even if it as a DH primarily.  We should be able to get him some reps as a platoon. But you can't change the Twins.

Edited August 12, 2015 by tobi0040

[Mike Sixel]

People love to hate on Arcia, and love Hunter......it is frankly baffling to me.

[Jham]

 

Well, the thread starter and site founder has repeatedly asserted that a reduction in Hunter's playing time is "bordering on unhinged". Between that and Sano, Hicks, and Rosario, it certainly sounds like the OF/DH inn is full at the moment.

And we're very near the point where Arcia and Buxton should be getting MLB reps regardless of their AAA performance (and actually, AAA will not be a 2015 option for either of them anymore in less than a month).

 

I don't think Bonnes ever asserted that reducing Hunter's playing time is "bordering on unhinged".  Waiving Hunter or benching him for a rookie at this stage maybe, but he stated that a slight reduction in playing time for a number of players, Hunter included, was totally reasonable.  Don't invent arguments because you want to see your favorite prospects.  Not all fans are you.  If this is Hunter's last year with the Twins, I'd like to see him go out the right way.  And no, I don't think that even playing out the AAA season would hurt either Arcia or Buxton.  In fact, many were shocked that Hicks didn't get the call last September.  I think Hicks might have gotten the message finally.  Arcia needs maturity and dedication, not more reps.

[tobi0040]

 

People love to hate on Arcia, and love Hunter......it is frankly baffling to me.

 

I don't know if that is fair assessment.  I think a vast majority of people on this site would swap Robinson for Arcia and give a good chunk of Hunter's AB's to Arcia.

 

But those people also realize that isn't going to happen.

 

The baffling thing is why the Twins won't do that. 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2015 by tobi0040

[big dog]

 

The cubs just sent Starlin Castro to the minors, after signing a $60MM deal, to call up a rookie.

 

Ryan should make personnel decisions based on people cheering for Hunter winning 1 game, really?

 

You don't think Buxton excites fans?

Starlin Castro is incredibly frustrating to Cubs fans, who probably cheered demoting him.  I don't know if crowd support for a player is a very good argument, but Hunter has a lot more of it than Castro does.  Personally and selfishly, I'd much rather watch Rosario/Buxton/Hicks right now.

 

-- edit: Mike, where did you see this?  He hadn't played for a week, but he was on the team.  Last night he came in to play second base.  I don't think he's been to the minors, but he was definitely benched.  Russell was already on the team, playing second, and replaced him at short.  I think this is just a position switch, not a roster move.

Edited August 12, 2015 by big dog

[Jham]

 

People love to hate on Arcia, and love Hunter......it is frankly baffling to me.

 

Wait wait...  Out of the guys defending Hunter, who is bashing Arcia?  Now look at the Hunter-bashing and ask yourself if all that is really necessary.  You can make a case for calling up prospects without bashing players who aren't under performing.  

[Jham]

 

I don't know if that is fair assessment.  I think a vast majority of people on this site would swap Robinson for Arcia and give a good chunk of Hunter's AB's to Arcia.

 

But those people also realize that isn't going to happen.

 

The baffling thing is why the Twins won't do that. 

 

 

Perfectly stated.  You can prefer one player over another without having to bash a guy like Robinson or Hunter who have at least played to expectations, if not exceeded them.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I don't think Bonnes ever asserted that reducing Hunter's playing time is "bordering on unhinged".  Waiving Hunter or benching him for a rookie at this stage maybe, but he stated that a slight reduction in playing time for a number of players, Hunter included, was totally reasonable.  Don't invent arguments because you want to see your favorite prospects.

Well, I doubt that more than 1 or 2 odd posters actually suggested a full benching or cutting of Hunter, and Bonnes seemed to be directing his statements towards the community at large.

 

If you want to leave out the "unhinged" statement, fine.  But Bonnes has also explicitly argued there isn't room for Buxton right now.  THAT is not a extreme minority viewpoint around here at all.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

 In fact, many were shocked that Hicks didn't get the call last September.  I think Hicks might have gotten the message finally.

Many would be shocked because it didn't happen -- Hicks did get a MLB call up last September.  He didn't in 2013, but he wasn't sent down until August then either, so he already had 4 months of MLB time that season.

 

Arcia had a month this year, and Buxton had 2 weeks.  If the Twins can't get either of them more than a token MLB appearance yet in 2015, and Hunter "going out the right way" was a big reason why, that would be a pretty bad decision.

[Jham]

 

Well, I doubt that more than 1 or 2 odd posters actually suggested a full benching or cutting of Hunter, and Bonnes seemed to be directing his statements towards the community at large.

 

If you want to leave out the "unhinged" statement, fine.  But Bonnes has also explicitly argued there isn't room for Buxton right now.  THAT is not a extreme minority viewpoint around here at all.

 

I guess I read his follow up post to the article to indicate he'd be ok with getting some of the guys some rest while rotating Buxton in, similar to what we did with Escobar when Santana was clogging the infield (actually clogging, not like Hunter just being old).

[Jham]

 

Many would be shocked because it didn't happen -- Hicks did get a MLB call up last September.  He didn't in 2013, but he wasn't sent down until August then either, so he already had 4 months of MLB time that season.

 

Arcia had a month this year, and Buxton had 2 weeks.  If the Twins can't get either of them more than a token MLB appearance yet in 2015, and Hunter "going out the right way" was a big reason why, that would be a pretty bad decision.

 

On your first point, I was going from memory.  I'm sure you'll forgive me if the last few seasons, especially Hicks last few seasons, blended together.  

 

On your second point, I guess we just disagree on how much of a difference on development a couple extra weeks in the bigs would have for Arcia and Buxton.  Buxton is still facing a new level.  Both will probably be up in September if not sooner.  I'm annoyed that Arcia hasn't been recalled since he can help the team, but perhaps the organization sees his personal development as more important right now.  Buxton, I'm not concerned about at all.  I'm disappointed he got hurt again, but other guys have stepped up, so his absence has not really been felt. 

 

As a final point, I would say there may be some organizational value in treating players like people instead of property or commodities.  It's not unreasonable to think that an organization might get more out of their players by demonstrating some loyalty and accountability instead of cutting or scapegoating guys.  I think we've failed in that regard in the past.  It's a delicate balance.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I guess I read his follow up post to the article to indicate he'd be ok with getting some of the guys some rest while rotating Buxton in, similar to what we did with Escobar when Santana was clogging the infield (actually clogging, not like Hunter just being old).

Really?  That's how you read this?

 

 

 

2) He is "mixed in" with everyone, taking a few at-bats from everyone and slightly more from Hunter. I don't have a great reason not to do this, other than we're messing around with a bunch of guys that seem to be on the right track, and I don't see a compelling reason to do that.

Doesn't sound like he'd be terribly OK with that.  Sounds more like the inn is full to me.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

On your second point, I guess we just disagree on how much of a difference on development a couple extra weeks in the bigs would have for Arcia and Buxton.

It's not so much development.  I obviously don't think a few weeks in MLB is going to fix Arcia or fully acclimate Buxton.

 

But both could/should be parts of the 2016 opening day roster, and both have a TON of question marks about them in that regard.  I'd rather try to answer some of those questions now, rather than kick that can down the road, which could throw off our offseason priorities (do we sign a FA OF starter, or risk going without one?) and in Arcia's case, could make for a very uncomfortable roster crunch next spring since he is out of options.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Starlin Castro is incredibly frustrating to Cubs fans, who probably cheered demoting him.  I don't know if crowd support for a player is a very good argument, but Hunter has a lot more of it than Castro does.  Personally and selfishly, I'd much rather watch Rosario/Buxton/Hicks right now.

 

-- edit: Mike, where did you see this?  He hadn't played for a week, but he was on the team.  Last night he came in to play second base.  I don't think he's been to the minors, but he was definitely benched.  Russell was already on the team, playing second, and replaced him at short.  I think this is just a position switch, not a roster move.

 

I did see it, but now I see he's actually been benched. And then they just put him in at 2B, so ya, the report I read was wrong about being sent down.