Twins demote Buxton

[jokin]

 

Well, then there's that....

 

It isn't that hard to undestand that Buxton's ceiling is drastically higher than Hicks, his work ethic, baseball IQ and career velocity are on entirely different planes than Hicks'.

[Seth Stohs]

I'm 100% on board with him spending a week or two at AAA after missing 6 weeks. That totally makes sense to me.

 

I don't get activating him and optioning him after just 3 days on a rehab when they could use up to 20 days for rehab. But, that's pretty minor too.

 

Service Time has nothing to do with it (in my opinion...). See this Jeremy Nygaard tweet for why. 

 

If he's optioned for less than 20 days, I guess it doesn't count. 

[JB_Iowa]

 

After you just went off on him with an alleged laundry list of reasons why he should have been demoted... So in one week, he's going to solve your entire litany?

 

And I think you are way overvaluing a cheerleader's role and his "grit" as the key to winning ANY more games.

 

No, I don't think he will show us all of that in one week but he needs to make a start.

 

I'm sorry I forgot that it would be 10 days rather than a week.

 

I just think all this angst is absolutely unwarranted.

 

And yes, I think the cheerleader role -- it's actually a leadership role -- is significant.  According to Molitor, that win in Cleveland was due to Hunter's determination.  Obviously he can't do it every night but frankly, without him, they don't have a leader.

 

Dozier a little and that's it.  So yes, I think it's important.  Somebody has got to try to hold this team together.  And it isn't going to be the coaches.  It isn't going to be Joe Mauer or Trevor Plouffe or the young guys.

 

Hunter can't do much about the pitching but he can't try to keep the "team" together.

[Shane Wahl]

If they aren't going to go all in--and they clearly aren't going to try to make the playoffs--then this doesn't bother me that much.

[markos]

 

Technically, since he was optioned today, Buxton can't be recalled for 10 days unless someone in MLB gets injured.  So we can't, for example, cut bait on a reliever a week from today and bring up Buxton.

 

It would interesting to hear from someone why they chose to end the rehab assignment quickly and option him, rather than just keep him on rehab longer.  Seems like it's not in anybody's best interest -- Buxton loses service time now, and the Twins risk losing an option year on Buxton if he stays down there 20 more days in 2015.

 

I guess if he gets injured again now, he would go on the AAA disabled list and not accrue service time for the remainder of 2015.  But 2015 MLB service time is mostly irrelevant for Buxton now anyway, since he was recalled after the supposed "super 2" arbitration eligibility date.

I can't think of any good reasons to end the rehab assignment and use the option either. My only thought, and this is a stretch, is that they are hoping to avoid wasting a year of service time if Buxton suffers a major injury (think Kubel tearing his ACL in the Arizona Fall League) while at AAA. As you mentioned, the service time and "super 2" issues are effectively moot at this point. Unless he is kept in AAA through June next year, Buxton is set to be a FA after the 2021 season regardless of how the rest of this season plays out.

 

Also, Buxton does take a financial hit from this move, as he is no longer on the Major League roster, so he goes back to minor league pay. 

[Platoon]

He needs to play every day.  So do Rosario and Hicks.  They aren't going to bench Hunter at this point. <<<<<<. AND THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM!!

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I think this is effectively a rehab assignment and option saving move

Option saving?  They will lose an option now if he isn't recalled within 20 days.  They could have left him on rehab for another ~16 days, then optioned him for up to 19 more days (through the end of the AAA season) if they wanted to give him AAA time but save an option year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I can't think of any good reasons to end the rehab assignment and use the option either. My only thought, and this is a stretch, is that they are hoping to avoid wasting a year of service time if Buxton suffers a major injury (think Kubel tearing his ACL in the Arizona Fall League) while at AAA.

Every minor league player on the 40-man roster has to be optioned anew in the spring.  And I don't think you can option an injured player.  So regardless of whether he was on the 25-man roster to finish the season in 2015, any injured 40-man player would have to go on the MLB DL in the spring.

 

The important distinction is 40-man or non-40-man, which isn't applicable in this case.  The 2004 Twins would have had to not add Kubel to their 40-man roster at all that year to avoid Kubel's 2005 year of service time after offseason injury.  (Or, Kubel's injury would have had to wait until he was optioned in 2005.)  On the flip side, the Twins lucked out when Gibson had his TJ surgery when he did in 2011, since he wasn't yet on the 40-man.

[glunn]

Moderator note -- please refrain from personally attacking other posters -- personal squabbles detract from the debate.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Also, Buxton does take a financial hit from this move, as he is no longer on the Major League roster, so he goes back to minor league pay. 

Good point.  Not a huge deal for a $6 mil bonus guy, but not chump change either.

 

Not entirely sure on the exact salary levels, especially for first year 40-man guys with MLB service like Buxton, but he would be earning 6-10 times more just getting the MLB minimum on rehab right now (not to mention 4x the meal money).

[KrnlDoug]

As much as I disagree with the move, it makes sense. I would rather have his bat getting better in AAA than sitting on the bench in the Big Leagues doing nothing. Hicks has been swinging decently as of late, Rosario continues to come in with clutch hits and Hunter isn't going anywhere. Why have Buxton sit on the bench and do nothing, when he could continue to grow, develop and get some help with his batting in AAA. He has had a taste of the majors and I think he will want to get back here, sometimes being sent down is a big motivator(see Aaron Hicks) and I bet we see Buxton again in September. 

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

It isn't that hard to figure out how to play him 80-90% of the time in MN. I don't buy the "there is no playing time here" argument.

 

I am somewhat sympathetic to the "he needs more rehab time" argument, though I don't see how it hurts to do that here.

 

I have no sympathy to the "11 games proves he wasn't ready" argument. He has slowly adjusted at every level.....that actually argues that if you want him productive in MN next year, he should be adjusting this year. If you want him doing that against MLB pitchers, and not AAA guys called up in September, that should be now, imo.

 

I have zero sympathy to any cost reasons for this move, if there are any.

 

Based on that, I would vastly prefer him up, now, rather than later.

[Vanimal46]

Well done jaimedude, there lies my frustrations with this team. Just a few short weeks ago, we were pretenders with a contenders record. Hence why there was a lot of debate on making a splash at the trade deadline, or making minor moves. Even the more conservative approach posters (not on the Tulo bandwagon) wanted more than just an acquisition of Jepsen. 

 

Flash forward to today, and literally ALL of our banked wins from May are gone. Now that the cards are shown, the Twins are folding their hand the rest of the way. Now should be the time to get rid of the old, and in with the new. But here we are, still in the middling gray area between contending, and rebuilding. Instead of choosing a direction and going with it, TR and the FO stalled out the car, and that's the most frustrating part. 

[TheLeviathan]

This is a wrist injury, he should be taking a long stint building back up strength and speed in his swing. This injury has a notoriously difficult recovery. No sense combining that challenge with major league pitching so quickly.

[USAFChief]

I understand Buxton not back in Minnesota.

 

What I don't understand is why he's off rehab and optioned.

 

That makes no sense to me, unless the goal is to save a couple weeks MLB salary.

[diehardtwinsfan]

My first problem is the idea that Buxton is somehow going to be the savior of this season. That's ridiculous. He was pretty bad in his limited sample, and now he's had a month off to go with it. He isn't suddenly going to come up and light the world on fire.

 

My bigger issue with this though is what I said earlier in other threads. We are creating an options issue here. He went on the 40 man early, got 40 at bats, and is now burning one of three options. He will more than likely see one burnt next year as well. It's poor options management. I get that he's a highly respected prospect, but they struggle (see Arcia, Oswaldo). Arcia was put in that same situation and no one thought the options game would be a problem, yet next year, he's out of them and is still clearly not ready. He may very well be up next year to stay (and I hope that is), but if he struggles at all, the Twins are going to find themselves in a spot where they are forced to keep him on a roster when he isn't ready.

[freshinthehouse]

 

Ryan has repeatedly said that they put the best players out there, and service time is not an issue. Should I believe him?

 

The answer to this question is always no.  GMs tell fans what they want to hear.  It's part of the job.

[Rosterman]

Basically, get him off major league salary and the timeclock, although he does make 40-man roster money. Plus, they don't have to end up optioning him around August 27th and can just bring him up after the Rochester season ends.

 

Who goes somewhere on the Rochester roster?

 

I do hope, come September, that we see Buxton up here with Hicks in right and Torii as an advisor to the young'uns. That we see Pinto get some time behind the plate. That Arcia is give a chance to at least pinch-hit. That Sano plays third, which means we can rest Mauer and try Plouffe at first (right now, would you rather see Plouffe at first or Joe). We still need to see someone else at shortstop and would vote Polana but Chattanooga will be in the playoffs, which means Kepler won't get a call up, either. 

 

If the Twins have an empty roster spot and need to reward a longime minorleague player, I vote for Jamie Beresford getting the temporary call.

 

It would be nice if some of the Twins could get claimed and moved in August to clear rostr space.

 

Right now, will the Twins contend is the question, and how solid do they want Chattanooga for the playoffs down there. I don't see Rochester making it.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

In fairness, if you are not going to have him up next year (ugh), and are worried about team control more than being good next year, sure, that makes sense I guess.

 

Here is a list of the elite prospects not called up this year, or back in the minors:

 

Buxton

 

...and Gallo, Seager, and Baez.

[TwinsCD]

Sending him down for a rehab assignment is the best move.  Give him a week to get his bat back underneath him, given that it's a wrist injury.  I wouldn't want him on the big club flailing away and going 0 for his first 14 at-bats and possibly losing confidence and turning into another Hicks.  Get things together down in Rochester and then get him back up to the big club.  Bux needs a September worth of MLB at-bats  to have him grooved for the 2016 season.

[sane]

It is important to succeed at AAA BEFORE he faces MLB pitching because CONFIDENCE IS MORE IMPORTANT than MLB reps, which if not successful can destroy his confidence....ie. HicksI and Hicks2.

[formerly33]

Well, hey, I seem to remember the masses complaining that Buxton needed to face AAA pitching before he could compete in the majors back when he first got the call. Just be happy! You not only got your cake but you can eat it, too!

[jokin]

 

It is important to succeed at AAA BEFORE he faces MLB pitching because CONFIDENCE IS MORE IMPORTANT than MLB reps, which if not successful can destroy his confidence....ie. HicksI and Hicks2.

 

Buxton aint Hicks...

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

I'm 100% on board with him spending a week or two at AAA after missing 6 weeks. That totally makes sense to me.

 

I don't get activating him and optioning him after just 3 days on a rehab when they could use up to 20 days for rehab. But, that's pretty minor too.

 

Service Time has nothing to do with it (in my opinion...). See this Jeremy Nygaard tweet for why. 

 

If he's optioned for less than 20 days, I guess it doesn't count. 

 

 

Okay, but really scares me is the small chance that the Twins are tempted to keep Buxton down long enough to slow his clock, by Nygaard's post would be around the Allstar break next year? Is this about right?

[Mike Sixel]

 

...and Gallo, Seager, and Baez.

 

Gallo was up, and Baez was not in the top 10 at the beginning of the year, but you are right, there are more than I thought. My bad.

[Mike Sixel]

September ABs will be against some MLB pitchers, and some AAA pitchers. And, he was on rehab, they activated and demoted him. I am sure there is some kind of contract/control reason why that made sense.

[jokin]

 

I'm 100% on board with him spending a week or two at AAA after missing 6 weeks. That totally makes sense to me.

 

I don't get activating him and optioning him after just 3 days on a rehab when they could use up to 20 days for rehab. But, that's pretty minor too.

 

Service Time has nothing to do with it (in my opinion...). See this Jeremy Nygaard tweet for why. 

 

If he's optioned for less than 20 days, I guess it doesn't count. 

 

Jeremy's 4th option isn't the slight bit disconcerting towards your argument?

 

[spinowner]

Here's what doesn't matter: service time, the Twins' 2015 postseason chances, salary, Torii Hunter, Aaron Hicks, Gallo, Seager, Baez, Correa, ticket sales, options, super 2 issues. Here's what matters: Buxton's development as a player.

His call to the majors was not the plan. It happened only because Hicks and Schafer were both disabled. AAA is where he should have gone at that point, so he is now where he is supposed to be in terms of games played.

[jokin]

 

September ABs will be against some MLB pitchers, and some AAA pitchers. And, he was on rehab, they activated and demoted him. I am sure there is some kind of contract/control reason why that made sense.

 

It seems pretty apparent... Gotta clear the decks for Hicks and Torii in CF and RF as the starters out of the chute in 2016. Extra year of team control for Buck 

[diehardtwinsfan]

Here's what doesn't matter: service time, the Twins' 2015 postseason chances, salary, Torii Hunter, Aaron Hicks, Gallo, Seager, Baez, Correa, ticket sales, options, super 2 issues. Here's what matters: Buxton's development as a player.

His call to the majors was not the plan. It happened only because Hicks and Schafer were both disabled. AAA is where he should have gone at that point, so he is now where he is supposed to be in terms of games played.

This. There was no one blocking him when he was called up. Unfortunately, there is now.