Big Game Hunter, Walter Palmer, D.D.S.

[Bark's Lounge]

To start out, I am no member of PETA, I like myself a steak, pork chop, etc. - Although ignorant to the culture of standard American Hunting (Deer, Grouse, Duck, etc., etc.), I would imagine in a lot of cases it is beneficial because of population numbers and the hunters use the product of their hunting successes.

 

This, on the other hand, is a disappointment to say the least:

 

http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/walter-palmer-minnesota-dentist-hunter-killed-cecil-the-lion-dead-shot-zimbabwe-illegal-arrested-photos-video-cubs-theo-bronchorst-trymore-ndlovu/

 

What the hell is going through a person's mind that it is a good thing to go big game hunting and kill an animal that will probably not exist on this planet in 25 years (zoos maybe)? Is the thrill of the hunt that addicting? If you are wealthy and have money to burn, is this a status symbol badge one wears on their sleeve?

 

Bloomington based dentist, Walter Palmer is a f'ed up dude. Based on photos that are in the link I have attached and photos I have seen in different articles on this subject, he did not lose his big game hunting virginity to Cecil the Lion - not even close. Does the guy think he is a modern day Teddy Roosevelt? If Teddy Roosevelt lived today, I think he would probably be ashamed of his conquests and be a leading champion to preserve these magnificent creatures who's numbers are dwindling by the day.

 

I hope Walter Palmer is not your dentist... what a waste of a human.

 

Freeze his assets, send him back to Zimbabwe penniless, and let that country determine his punishment.

[Craig Arko]

This is just too damn sad to think about. I suspect the doctor is going to suffer from an extreme shortage of clients.

[TheLeviathan]

I can't speak to the laws over there or any of that, but I do think some reactions on this are kind of silly.

 

We kill cows and chickens in droves, we hunt deer and ducks and many other things, but so help you god if you kill something "pretty" or "exotic" from somewhere else.

 

Then we get all crazy and weird about things.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

I can't speak to the laws over there or any of that, but I do think some reactions on this are kind of silly.

 

We kill cows and chickens in droves, we hunt deer and ducks and many other things, but so help you god if you kill something "pretty" or "exotic" from somewhere else.

 

Then we get all crazy and weird about things.

I know better than to get in a debate with you Levi. That's your field of expertise, not mine.

 

I understand that the meat industry in this country treats consumable animals like products and an end resource. I've seen and read about it with the poultry industry and I am sure it is not too handsome within the beef industry, etc., etc. - maybe that is a conversation for right now, maybe it is best left for another day?

 

I think there is a dose of hypocrisy in almost any topic one can bring up.

 

I can't imagine you want extremely endangered animals to go extinct. Unfortunately, it won't be stopped because it is Africa. Poor countries, corrupt governments, revolutions, exploiting resources (which this event falls into all of the aforementioned). We had the Wild, Wild West - They have the Wild, Wild East... it's a problematic continent and we can spread the blame around for ever if we choose to do so.

 

I brought this up, only because it is a shame that no one has any control to stop it. Some semi-wealthy ******* dentist, named Walter Palmer from a Minneapolis suburb has the power to kill endangered animals without much more than the U.S. dollar.

 

It's not about pretty or exotic animals. It means more than that.

[Mike Sixel]

Loser, and there is a pretty big distinction between hunting a soon to be extinct animal, and cattle and pigs.....

[TheLeviathan]

The problem is that African countries are handing out permits for it, I don't get crucifying people that go and do it.

 

In general I think most outrage focused on these matters does tend to be more about the perception of the animal than the state of the population or the value of hunting as a practice.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I can't speak to the laws over there or any of that, but I do think some reactions on this are kind of silly.

 

We kill cows and chickens in droves, we hunt deer and ducks and many other things, but so help you god if you kill something "pretty" or "exotic" from somewhere else.

 

Then we get all crazy and weird about things.

I agree that a lot of the reactions to this border on the comical but I absolutely loathe game hunting for sport. It's just such a douchey thing to do.

 

Killing something just for the sake of killing is abominable and I question the thought process of anyone who participates in such a practice.

[TheLeviathan]

I couldn't personally hunt and find no joy in it, but the truth is most people don't hurt for meat or anything other than the act of shooting something.  That goes for most anything we shoot at.

[drjim]

I couldn't personally hunt and find no joy in it, but the truth is most people don't hurt for meat or anything other than the act of shooting something. That goes for most anything we shoot at.

Most seems like a stretch.

 

Hunters might not use the whole animal completely efficiently but they will likely eat the meat and maybe use some of the hides.

 

I'm not a huge hunter but I have never been around one that doesn't eat what they shoot unless it is complete varmit hunting.

[PseudoSABR]

As we've depleted natural predators, some hunting provides a needed ecological role. I can imagine a kind of sanctity if not carried out with gluttony.  Lion hunting? It's bad enough that our presence contributes to their loss of habitat with something less than a shrug.  But to revel in a orchestrated murder of a protected, majestic creature?  It's the horrible end to that ole American canard--I get to do what the heck I want, and boo hoo you don't get to do it too.

[formerly33]

 

I can't speak to the laws over there or any of that, but I do think some reactions on this are kind of silly.

 

We kill cows and chickens in droves, we hunt deer and ducks and many other things, but so help you god if you kill something "pretty" or "exotic" from somewhere else.

 

Then we get all crazy and weird about things.

This is absurd. Cows and chickens are domesticated animals and are raised to be killed for our own livelihood. You don't have to be a vegan PETA extremist or a carnivorous African game hunter to take a stance on this.

 

Say for instance someone got control of the whole world and said, "Since the people want us to save the lions, we are going to save the deer too. No lion or deer hunting allowed from this date on."

 

What do you think would happen? Lions might thrive in Africa, but over here in North America, deer would run rampant. It would not be good for the environment at all. The overall effect on the deer would be worse than if we were to remain hunting them because they would overpopulate and begin to starve.

 

Then the said leader noticed that and said, "Okay, that didn't work ... let's hunt the crap out of 'em all now and see how that works."

 

The deer population was controlled, but lions immediately dropped back onto the endangered list.

 

Hopefully this leader can reason through his past errors and realize that there is a median that can be rationally attained. And hopefully we can learn from his mistakes and not turn them into a reality.

 

Stop hunting the lions for sport. Is there anything, anything good that is coming of this? And think about what makes animals "exotic." It's not the long mane or the shiny feathers; it is the fact that they are facing extinction. If deer were on the verge of extinction in 2050, I'm sure something would be done to protect them. I don't think there is anything unreasonable or silly about being concerned over this irrational killing of lions.

 

And Bark, Walter Palmer is not my dentist ... but I may have to seriously consider scheduling an appointment with him sometime this winter. I have a strong jaw.

[drjim]

As we've depleted natural predators, some hunting provides a needed ecological role. I can imagine a kind of sanctity if not carried out with gluttony. Lion hunting? It's bad enough that our presence contributes to their loss of habitat with something less than a shrug. But to revel in a orchestrated murder of a protected, majestic creature? It's the horrible end to that ole American canard--I get to do what the heck I want, and boo hoo you don't get to do it too.

I think this is basically what everyone thinks. I have seen quite the response over a pretty wide political spectrum of people I know. Not one person is ok with this.

[freshinthehouse]

 

I can't speak to the laws over there or any of that, but I do think some reactions on this are kind of silly.

 

We kill cows and chickens in droves, we hunt deer and ducks and many other things, but so help you god if you kill something "pretty" or "exotic" from somewhere else.

 

Then we get all crazy and weird about things.

 

I think I'm in a similar boat about this as leviathan.  As far as awful things happening in the world (to animals and humans alike), this ranks pretty low on my list.  I do hunt deer, but paying out the nose to do some set up "hunt" for an animal that I'm not going to eat isn't my cup of tea.  But this dipstick is one of hundreds (prolly thousands) of people doing something just like this.  This schmuck just had the bad luck of hiring an unscrupulous guide and shooting a lion that had a first name.

 

Loss of habitat is the number one threat to lions and pretty much every other animal on the planet.  there are too many of us.  And as more people across the world start climbing out of poverty, this is only going to get worse.  Look what the US has done to its apex predators (though alligators are one of conservations true success stories).  You could round up all the grizzly bears in the lower 48 and they'd prolly fit on a football field.  as Africa and other 3rd world areas continue to develop this will sadly be the case with their wildlife as well. 

[ChiliGivesUsTheRuns]

 

I think this is basically what everyone thinks. I have seen quite the response over a pretty wide political spectrum of people I know. Not one person is ok with this.

You'd think so.  Sadly, there are some lowlife dbags out there that will argue anything.

 

Internet commentary is best to avoid at certain (most) times.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Most seems like a stretch.

Hunters might not use the whole animal completely efficiently but they will likely eat the meat and maybe use some of the hides.

I'm not a huge hunter but I have never been around one that doesn't eat what they shoot unless it is complete varmit hunting.

 

So just because they keep some meat that makes it ok?  The point is that's not the intention of going out to hunt for most people - it's the act of shooting something.  I know a lot of hunters and the vast majority of them hunt for the act of finding and shooting an animal.  The meat is just the bonus.

[TheLeviathan]

 

What do you think would happen? Lions might thrive in Africa, but over here in North America, deer would run rampant. It would not be good for the environment at all. The overall effect on the deer would be worse than if we were to remain hunting them because they would overpopulate and begin to starve.

 

Stop hunting the lions for sport. Is there anything, anything good that is coming of this? And think about what makes animals "exotic." It's not the long mane or the shiny feathers; it is the fact that they are facing extinction. If deer were on the verge of extinction in 2050, I'm sure something would be done to protect them. I don't think there is anything unreasonable or silly about being concerned over this irrational killing of lions.

 

The problem is that we make a bigger deal out of this because of this absurd idea that these other animals are more "majestic" than the ones in our own back yard.

 

We don't think twice about shooting a duck.  Or a deer.  Or a pheasant.  Why?  Because they aren't exotic or "majestic".  There is no aura of mystery about them because we see them every day.  But something pretty or exotic from somewhere else in the world?  Holy schnikes - then the world is coming to an end.

 

Do I like this?  No, I don't.   I personally find no interest in gunning down anything for sport.  (That goes for deer too - who, by the way, are only a population problem because we annihilated their natural predators.  So we killed all their predators to justify our own ability to slaughter them.  That's...better, somehow...I guess)  But the emotion fueling most of this is misguided.  It's the same one that freaks out when it hears that dogs are food in another country.  Or horses.  It's this silly picking and choosing of what is ok for human consumption and use based on how pretty, or smart, or exotic, or "majestic" the animal is.  I just find that preposterous and annoying.

[Squirrel]

 

 

We don't think twice about shooting a duck.  Or a deer.  Or a pheasant.  Why?  Because they aren't exotic or "majestic".  

 

Neither are they endangered and that's a huge distinction for me. In fact, in some cases, hunters have been encouraged to shoot deer because of overly large populations that would not be sustainable through the winter. While hunting isn't my cup of tea, I have no issues with this kind (deer or duck) of hunting. I'd put fishing in that category, too. And while most hunters (and fishermen) I know might not be hunting purely for food, they do eat or share the meat they do get from that sport and isn't just a head to mount on the wall. Or to boast you've done it just to do it.

 

But going out to kill an endangered animal, exotic of otherwise, just for the … for what, exactly? … whether or not that country allows it, is just, well, horrible to me. It shows a huge lack of respect for life in general, imo. 

 

 

[drjim]

 

Neither are they endangered and that's a huge distinction for me. In fact, in some cases, hunters have been encouraged to shoot deer because of overly large populations that would not be sustainable through the winter. While hunting isn't my cup of tea, I have no issues with this kind (deer or duck) of hunting. I'd put fishing in that category, too. And while most hunters (and fishermen) I know might not be hunting purely for food, they do eat or share the meat they do get from that sport.

 

But going out to kill an endangered animal, exotic of otherwise, just for the … for what, exactly? … whether or not that country allows it, is just, well, horrible to me. It shows a huge lack of respect for life in general, imo. 

 

I agree with this distinction too. Common animals that you also eat vs. endangered makes a huge difference in hunting ethics.

 

Reports are he skinned and beheaded the lion too - that just seems excessively barbaric.

[TheLeviathan]

Deer populations are high because of us. We orchestrated the situation that makes them overpopulated, justifying our own slaughter. Deer are every bit as "majestic" and killed in every bit as cowardly a fashion.

 

Almost every country in Africa allows this hunting, endangered or not. Doesn't make him right, but it does make his particular case rather insignificant.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Reports are he skinned and beheaded the lion too - that just seems excessively barbaric.

Are you just not aware of what are done to trophy bucks?

[formerly33]

Levi, you are opposed to the idea of weeding out the natural predators in North America (which, by the way, I do not think is okay, contrary to what you seem to believe), yet you try to justify the killing of lions because it's low down on your list of wrongs. We can't just ignore it because of its level of offense, and we can't say that it's wrong to single out one offender when there are many, many others. Sometimes you need to use someone to set a precedence. It may be ugly and against your moral code, but that's just the way life is. Unfortunately we live in an imperfect world.

 

Back to my original point, do you mind telling me why you think that just because other Americans brought down the numbers of grizzlies and cougars, etc., that we have to let the slaughter of wild African lions go by unheeded? I feel like that is similar to saying that since a couple centuries ago there were witch hunts in the colonies that we should overlook a wacko group that wanted to go back to the old way of living, i.e. a woman goes to jail or at least sits in the stocks if she back talks her husband.

 

And I am in complete agreement with ChiTown that hunting an endangered species for pleasure just shows a disgraceful lack of respect for life in general. I don't care if it's a frog or duck or deer or lion or whatever ... it's not right and I don't think we should let it go by unheeded.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm not justifying it, I'm just calling out the hypocrisy and hollow reasoning. Personally I think most all hunting is cruel. We should just domesticate deer if we want to eat them.

 

So why don't we? Simple, really, because we like to shoot things and call it hunting. And because we have built a web of bizarre hypocrisy that one thing is fine to kill and another isn't.

[twinsnorth49]

Genocide in Darfur and we're worked up about Walter Palmer........sorry, just can't.

[Mike Sixel]

Just because other bad things are happening does not mean you can't be "upset" about this bad thing. the world doesn't work that way.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Just because other bad things are happening does not mean you can't be "upset" about this bad thing. the world doesn't work that way.

Just my perspective Mike, I know how the world works, thanks.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Just my perspective Mike, I know how the world works, thanks.

 

I do agree with your general statement, our priorities are out of whack here.....

[formerly33]

 

I'm not justifying it, I'm just calling out the hypocrisy and hollow reasoning. Personally I think most all hunting is cruel. We should just domesticate deer if we want to eat them.

So why don't we? Simple, really, because we like to shoot things and call it hunting. And because we have built a web of bizarre hypocrisy that one thing is fine to kill and another isn't.

So ... only extremists can take a stance on this and everything in between is hypocrisy.

[twinsnorth49]

I do agree with your general statement, our priorities are out of whack here.....

Thanks, that's all I was saying. Wasn't trying to sound all self righteous.

[TheLeviathan]

So ... only extremists can take a stance on this and everything in between is hypocrisy.

That depends on the consistency of your views.

 

If this is wrong because lions are endangered its fine to think this guy a scumbag, but the bulk of your energy should be focused on the countries encouraging it (granting permits) and not on destroying one guy's life.

[mikecgrimes]

His crime was that the lion had a name. If the money of guys like this aren't available to help that economy guess what the locals will do for food.