In a handful of days, we went from Tulo has a great contract that is an asset and we would have to give up top prospects including Berrios.......to Colorado had to take back a really bad contract to make the deal work. A guy that could be traded 1-1 with Ricky Nolasco.

 

Not following. If we could have gotten Tulo for Nolasco, the 80th best prospect and a few non-100 guys we would have done it.

The Rockies got 3 very good prospects for Tulo is what your missing on. Reyes is a slight upgrade over Escobar. Only interest Twins should have in him is if they can get rid of Nolasco & get a bullpen arm.

They may also have taken Reyes because they think he can play SS right now....and they don't want to totally lose the casual fan.....

 

The Rockies got 3 very good prospects for Tulo is what your missing on. Reyes is a slight upgrade over Escobar. Only interest Twins should have in him is if they can get rid of Nolasco & get a bullpen arm.

Three very good prospects?  That's a huge stretch. One perhaps and they got to salary dump too.

 

And Escobar isn't our shortstop.

Edited July 29, 201511 yr by jimmer

 

The Rockies got 3 very good prospects for Tulo is what your missing on. Reyes is a slight upgrade over Escobar. Only interest Twins should have in him is if they can get rid of Nolasco & get a bullpen arm.

 

The going rate on these boards was the 25th best prospect in MLB, our best pitching prospect who is knocking on the door as a starting point.  Then adding another guy or two on the cusp of the 100 list.

 

The "good prospects" were #80 overall.  Then their 5th best and their system is not good.  Their 29th best.  And a guy who we think has as much value as Ricky Nolasco.

 

My rambling point here is that EVERYONE was way off in assessing Tulo's value.  I believe they are also way off in assessing Reyes value.  He won't be moved for the likes of Ricky Nolasco. 

Edited July 29, 201511 yr by tobi0040

 

The going rate on these boards was the 25th best prospect in MLB, our best pitching prospect who is knocking on the door as a starting point.  Then adding another guy or two on the cusp of the 100 list.

 

The "good prospects" were #80 overall.  Then their 5th best and their system is not good.  Their 29th best.  And a guy who we think has as much value as Ricky Nolasco.

 

My rambling point here is that EVERYONE was way off in assessing Tulo's value.  I believe they are also way off in assessing Reyes value.  He won't be moved for the likes of Ricky Nolasco. 

Still missing it. Nobody has said Reyes is equal to Nolasco.

 

Reyes is owed about 50M after this season and Nolasco is owed about 25M.  That 25M has value.  In addiiton to that I think the Twins still need to include an alright but not great prospect.

Three very good prospects? That's a stretch.

 

And Escobar isn't our shortstop.

Maybe, the Twins equivalent would likely be Nolasco as Reyes with Meyer, K Stewart, & Duffy or Hu type. That's a decent package.

 

He's the best SS on the Twins right now.

 

Still missing it. Nobody has said Reyes is equal to Nolasco.

 

Reyes is owed about 50M after this season and Nolasco is owed about 25M.  That 25M has value.  In addiiton to that I think the Twins still need to include an alright but not great prospect.

 

Reyes is an above average hitter at SS.  Nolasco has no business being on an MLB roster.  I don't think Nolasco plus an OK prospect happens. 

 

Maybe, the Twins equivalent would likely be Nolasco as Reyes with Meyer, K Stewart, & Duffy or Hu type. That's a decent package.

He's the best SS on the Twins right now.

if only he was actually playing shortstop.  Ryan pushed to make sure Santana was the shortstop this season and Molitor continues to make it happen.  (I remember that correctly, right?  Ryan kept saying Santana, Molitor was saying they would compete and left the idea of Santana playing CF open.  Or was it the other way around?

Edited July 29, 201511 yr by jimmer

 

Reyes is an above average hitter at SS.  Nolasco has no business being on an MLB roster.  I don't think Nolasco plus an OK prospect happens. 

here's to hoping we don't even think about getting Reyes.

 

Maybe, the Twins equivalent would likely be Nolasco as Reyes with Meyer, K Stewart, & Duffy or Hu type. That's a decent package.

He's the best SS on the Twins right now.

 

OK.  That is a different story than this doozy a page back.  So the Rockies are going to give us Reyes, take on $20M for Nolasco and a mid-tier prospect.  For the record, these are the type of deals I think people have way off.

 

 

"This changes nothing regarding Reyes.I would instantly take Reyes in a deal for 2/25 (including buyout) for one of the mid tier prospects as long as they also take Nolasco (making the Reyes contract 2/25)."

 

OK.  That is a different story than this doozy a page back.  So the Rockies are going to give us Reyes, take on $20M for Nolasco and a mid-tier prospect.  For the record, these are the type of deals I think people have way off.

 

 

"This changes nothing regarding Reyes.I would instantly take Reyes in a deal for 2/25 (including buyout) for one of the mid tier prospects as long as they also take Nolasco (making the Reyes contract 2/25)."

 

My thoughts were that Reyes was more about the Rockies taking some $ back to gain better prospects. I don't believe we agree on Reyes value. I personally wouldnt want Reyes, I'd just start Escobar and upgrade somewhere else on the roster. If they could encourage a salary swap that balances out the roster better and is a slight improvement at SS then why not.

 

Mackey just put out a article saying Meyer, Stewart, & Burdi would probably be comparable prospect wise. So I don't believe Im that far off on what it would take from the Twins prospect wise to match the Tulo trade.

 

My thoughts were that Reyes was more about the Rockies taking some $ back to gain better prospects. I don't believe we agree on Reyes value. I personally wouldnt want Reyes, I'd just start Escobar and upgrade somewhere else on the roster. If they could encourage a salary swap that balances out the roster better and is a slight improvement at SS then why not.

 

Mackey just put out a article saying Meyer, Stewart, & Burdi would probably be comparable prospect wise. So I don't believe Im that far off on what it would take from the Twins prospect wise to match the Tulo trade.

 

Let's say the Rockies deal was prospects 80, 140, and 900. 

 

Kohl and Meyer started the year about 30-40 each and Burdi was probably 150.    Now Kohl probably slides back to 50.  Meyer to 90.  and Burdi to 200.

 

 

 

 

The going rate on these boards was the 25th best prospect in MLB, our best pitching prospect who is knocking on the door as a starting point.  Then adding another guy or two on the cusp of the 100 list.

 

The "good prospects" were #80 overall.  Then their 5th best and their system is not good.  Their 29th best.  And a guy who we think has as much value as Ricky Nolasco.

 

My rambling point here is that EVERYONE was way off in assessing Tulo's value.  I believe they are also way off in assessing Reyes value.  He won't be moved for the likes of Ricky Nolasco. 

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

 

If there was miscalculation on the cost of acquiring Tulo, it was an overestimation of the cost, not an underestimation.

 

Including Reyes in the deal was a negative for Colorado, not a positive.  That was what Toronto needed to agree to the deal, not what Colorado needed.  The cost in prospects would have presumably been even less had he not been included.

 

The point of including Nolasco in a Reyes trade would be the same.  The Twins wouldn't take on Reyes contract, so to get a prospect from the Twins, Colorado would need to include cash, or take back a bad contract.

 

 

 

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

 

If there was miscalculation on the cost of acquiring Tulo, it was an overestimation of the cost, not an underestimation.

 

Including Reyes in the deal was a negative for Colorado, not a positive.  That was what Toronto needed to agree to the deal, not what Colorado needed.  The cost in prospects would have presumably been even less had he not been included.

 

The point of including Nolasco in a Reyes trade would be the same.  The Twins wouldn't take on Reyes contract, so to get a prospect from the Twins, Colorado would need to include cash, or take back a bad contract.

 

Oh I understand, but don't agree. 

 

I don't think 2/44 for Reyes is such a horrible contract that they need to take Nolasco back in order to get a prospect for him. He has a near league average OPS and is a SS. He will swipe 30 bags this year

 

I think the Twins would have to give up prospects for someone to take Nolasco.  And that would be if we were not getting anything back for him. 

 

 

Edited July 29, 201511 yr by tobi0040

 

Oh I understand, but don't agree. 

 

I don't think 2/44 for Reyes is such a horrible contract that they need to take Nolasco back in order to get a prospect for him. He has a near league average OPS and is a SS. He will swipe 30 bags this year

 

I think the Twins would have to give up prospects for someone to take Nolasco.  And that would be if we were not getting anything back for him. 

you get that there's also the 4M buyout if they don't exercise the option year AND he still needs to get paid this year?  So more like 55M left for less than 2 1/2 seasons

So what about a flip for Joe Mauer? Mauer signed through 2018 $23m per year. Reyes signed through 2017 $22M per year with 2018 team option for $22M with $4M buyout.

Sounds good to me. Mauer is not showing any improvement in the field and his numbers are poor.

 

So what about a flip for Joe Mauer? Mauer signed through 2018 $23m per year. Reyes signed through 2017 $22M per year with 2018 team option for $22M with $4M buyout.

Sounds good to me. Mauer is not showing any improvement in the field and his numbers are poor.

 

Sigh. Joe isn't going anywhere.  He isn't waiving his no trade clause.  For even his poor numbers, he leads the team in batting average and OBP.

 

Sigh. Joe isn't going anywhere.  He isn't waiving his no trade clause.  For even his poor numbers, he leads the team in batting average and OBP.

We can dream right? And I would not brag about a .276 avg & .340 OBP.

 

Oh I understand, but don't agree. 

 

I don't think 2/44 for Reyes is such a horrible contract that they need to take Nolasco back in order to get a prospect for him. He has a near league average OPS and is a SS. He will swipe 30 bags this year

 

I think the Twins would have to give up prospects for someone to take Nolasco.  And that would be if we were not getting anything back for him. 

Nobody is trading for Reyes w/o significant cash being exchanged also (or a dead contract). 

So how did Nolasco turn into the worst contract in MN? His biggest problem is that he cannot stay healthy. His contract is not hurting this team as bad as some other contract.

 

The only way to even consider a Reyes deal is if they take back Nolasco as a salary dump and include some cash. I don;t think the Twins are interested in Reyes as the solution at short stop.

Heck the Mets had him in there system, seemingly want to upgrade the short stop position and they are cool to the idea of any reunion with Reyes. Colorado will be lucky to do an August waiver claim deal for Reyes, and from all accounts looks like they are stuck with him

 

I guess we will see if Reyes is moved and for what. 

 

My guess is he is kept for two main reasons, he is still a quality player at the thinnest position in the big leagues and he has a big name, which will maybe help the PR a tad given that they just dumped Tulo.

 

I wish we could all just add at the end of Nolasco suggestions "the expiring contract of Ricky Nolasco" or "Nolasco's contract".  That would denote the fact that the player has absolutely no value.

 

 

Edited July 30, 201511 yr by tobi0040