Article: Will Twins Address Their Most Glaring Weakness?

[Kwak]

Let's take a step back.  When the Twins recognized a need to find a regular Catcher, what did they do?  When the Twins wore out the refrain of "Starting Pitching is the #1 problem", what did they do?  Answer to both:  they went to the free-agent market with checkbook in hand and bought players to address said problems.  So, when it is time to get another Catcher--they open the checkbook and address the problem.  Recall that promise that was made concerning why the Twins "needed" a new stadium?  Having the money to solve problems was the #2 reason cited (behind keeping the "fan favorites").  So, I suggest they just spend the money and keep what "good" players they already have rather than trading.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

You don't have to convince me, I'm the one who suggested trading Buxton. Which SP(s) would you trade?

That's a sticky situation. You have the following options:

 

1. Berrios. I don't think Jose is untouchable but he's close. The Twins are putting together a young core of arms that can compete in 2016-2019 but they're missing another #2 pitcher to complement Gibson and May to round out a competent playoff rotation. I think Berrios is that guy so the catcher better be really good to let Jose slip from your grasp.

 

2. Stewart, Meyer, Thorpe. Their value is diminished right now. Can't move any of those guys.

 

3. Hu. A long way from MLB. His value is questionable because he's so far from the majors.

 

There isn't a good answer to the question.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Carlos Corriea for one. All that bragging on this site about Buxton over him looks silly so far, just as it looked silly last year, and earlier this year.

 

Possibles:

Lindor

Seager

Gallo

Giolito

 

guys I thought were 21, but are now 22:

Harper

Machado

Betts

 

Look, Buxton is one of the best players under 22 out there......but it's not hard to find names that are close to him in potential.

There are several players on Buxton's plane, I will agree with that point... But nobody in MiLB has much more upside than Byron.

 

Again, Buxton is very good at literally everything he does. Those players are incredibly rare. Sano has similar upside to Buxton, though I don't see him being as valuable even if he hits like Miggy. Baseball is littered with players who are extremely good at one or two things. Finding the player who is very good at everything he does, that's a rare specimen and you hold on to that guy.

 

Buxton has the kind of talent that's hard to valuate. He's fantastic in the field. He has a good arm. He can hit for respectable average. He has very good discipline. He's a respectable power hitter. He can swipe bags because he's blindingly fast. If he projects into the player we all expect him to become, he's basically flawless.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Absolutely, I'm not saying it's great or anything but he has yet to get into a rhythm and all of his plate appearances came as a 21-23 year old (he went down with injury a few days before his 24th birthday).

 

He might be an oft-injured player and maybe he'll never get into a rhythm but Arcia has loads of talent. He's probably the best pure hitter to come through the Twins system in the past 2-3 years, non Buxton/Sano edition.

So we're really talking about different things then.  You're projecting Arcia to improve, which is fine, but it doesn't change the fact that he has more or less stagnated as a nearly average hitter (and nearly replacement level player) from age 21-24.  Thus, his trade value has been steadily dropping.

 

And unless he shows some improvement in the next 1.5 years, his value is going to be darn near zero entering his arbitration seasons.  Might still be worth keeping around depending on our roster construction (i.e. we don't have better DH options).

 

Either way, not much we can do now but wait and hope he starts showing some more of that talent.

[Mike Sixel]

I love Buxton, that wasn't the question.....I would love Lindor or Correa or Seager too.

 

I would not trade Buxton, without some kind of INSANE package coming back. So, no, I would not deal him for any catcher I can think of right now.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

So we're really talking about different things then.  You're projecting Arcia to improve, which is fine, but it doesn't change the fact that he has more or less stagnated as a nearly average hitter (and nearly replacement level player) from age 21-24.  Thus, his trade value has been steadily dropping.

Yeah, we're kinda talking past each other here.

 

I don't expect Arcia to "improve" so much as "stay on the field and mature", which will result in improvement. Whether that's an improvement to a 110 OPS+ player or a 130 OPS+ player, I do not know. He certainly has the talent to be that 130 guy but the dude can't stay on the bloody field for long enough to find out.

 

I agree that his trade return has diminished, though. I think it's mostly due to repeated injury but that's picking nits. The end result is that he's not worth as much today as he was in 2013.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

So we're really talking about different things then.  You're projecting Arcia to improve, which is fine, but it doesn't change the fact that he has more or less stagnated as a nearly average hitter (and nearly replacement level player) from age 21-24.  Thus, his trade value has been steadily dropping.

Yeah, we're kinda talking past each other here.

 

I don't expect Arcia to "improve" so much as "stay on the field and mature", which will result in improvement. Whether that's an improvement to a 110 OPS+ player or a 130 OPS+ player, I do not know. He certainly has the talent to be that 130 guy but the dude can't stay on the bloody field long enough to find out.

 

I agree that his trade return has diminished, though. I think it's mostly due to repeated injury but that's picking nits. The end result is that he's not worth as much today as he was in 2013.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

So we're really talking about different things then.  You're projecting Arcia to improve, which is fine, but it doesn't change the fact that he has more or less stagnated as a nearly average hitter (and nearly replacement level player) from age 21-24.  Thus, his trade value has been steadily dropping.

 

And unless he shows some improvement in the next 1.5 years, his value is going to be darn near zero entering his arbitration seasons.  Might still be worth keeping around depending on our roster construction (i.e. we don't have better DH options).

 

Either way, not much we can do now but wait and hope he starts showing some more of that talent.

I think you are really selling Arcia short. Arcia has shown as much raw home run power at a young age as anyone else in the league, not named Trout. Yet if he doesn't improve on that in the next year, his trade value approaches zero? I don't see it.

 

I'm sure there are teams that will take him off the Twins hands for next to nothing.

[Mike Sixel]

What would the Yankees want for Gary Sanchez? He has supposedly improved his catching this year, and could be an average catcher if things work out......It likely helps more next year than this year.....but they are leading their division, and could use some things. Admittedly, I may be reaching here....

[spinowner]

 

Well I wouldn't give him away but there are two center fielders on this roster. One who is ready to go and one who pretty clearly isn't. People are talking about trading the first one, but if the 2nd one is a better trade chip, why not trade that guy? Because you risk forgoing an incremental improvement at CF? There is probably more room for improvement at C or SS. If the trade is fair, that would help the team the most.

Based on the way Hicks is playing center field now I think he could become the best defensive right fielder in baseball. He has speed, the ability to catch a ball he gets to and a cannon. Given a year or so to adapt to the position and to continue to improve at the plate we could be set for years.

Edited July 21, 2015 by spinowner

[DaveW]

Kepler is the guy I would be dangling in trade talks. His value is high currently and the Twins likely wouldn't miss him too terribly.

[DaveW]

What would the Yankees want for Gary Sanchez? He has supposedly improved his catching this year, and could be an average catcher if things work out......It likely helps more next year than this year.....but they are leading their division, and could use some things. Admittedly, I may be reaching here....

I can't see them trading Sanchez as he is the only real prospect they have left. He also is only 22, so any struggles shouldn't be a warning flag IMO.

 

I wonder if the Mariners wouldever consider trading Zunino?

[TheLeviathan]

Given the money spent by Seattle I don't see them selling off young pieces.  I think they'll keep firing bullets in FA to get the team contending.

[Nick Nelson]

Mike Berardino has a column in the Pioneer Press today listing targets that the Twins have been "closely monitoring." He mentions two players covered in this piece, Lucroy and Norris: http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_28511974/do-twins-need-hitting-catcher-complement-kurt-suzuki

[TheLeviathan]

 

Mike Berardino has a column in the Pioneer Press today listing targets that the Twins have been "closely monitoring." He mentions two players covered in this piece, Lucroy and Norris: http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_28511974/do-twins-need-hitting-catcher-complement-kurt-suzuki

 

Well that was discouraging.

[Mike Sixel]

Wow, that is one depressing read, quotes form the 70s and 80s, or maybe it is an Onion article just copying things FO and manager types said 30 years ago?

 

He may or may not be great prepping pitchers before the game, but on the field, he's not good. Offense. Defense. Running. Nothing is even close to median, let alone "ok".

Edited July 21, 2015 by mike wants wins

[DaveW]

 

Given the money spent by Seattle I don't see them selling off young pieces.  I think they'll keep firing bullets in FA to get the team contending.

Yeah, I just wonder if the Twins could package them someone like a power bat like Vargas (1st base/DH), Meyer (another disappointing high prospect), Suzuki (to at least cover C for the rest of this year for them) and a bullpen prospect in return for Zunino.

Probably unlikely, just spit-balling, Zunino seems like a perfect change of scenery candidate, maybe Mauer and co could teach him a few things and get his average above the mendoza line.

[DaveW]

 

 

Well that was discouraging.

Meh, what are the Twins supposed to do, trash the guy? By all accounts Kurt has been a great teammate for the team and for whatever its worth the pitching has been pretty solid this year with him behind the dish.

The twins usually keep trade talks/rumors etc close to the vest anyways. I still think AJ would be the perfect fit since he wouldn't cost much and could be a 50/50 split with Suzuki.

[Mike Sixel]

Zunino is really, really, really struggling. He seems to be getting worse every year. Great example of why sometimes you trade prospects......

 

I'm not sure if I trust him enough to give up much of anything for him. Meyer for him straight up, in a trade of "wt# happened to him".....I'd do that, probably.

[Twodogs]

guys like arcia, meyer, vargas, etc... are already proven to have flaws; if they didn't, they'd be with the Twins right now??  the twins will never get anything for players that have proven to be ok but have flaws.  they Twins, if they are going to trade anyone for value need to trade one of these guys before everyone including ourselves actually see their flaws.  they need to trade someone while they are still highly regarded prospects.  But everyone wants to hold on to everyone and the twins end up realistically getting nothing for their once highly thought of prospects, think back to names like restovich, buck buchanan, etc...once all of us can see that arcia is oft injured and a defensive liability then so can everyone else and he essentialy becomes worthless, except for the twins, hopefully he can capitalize on whatever opportunity he will get with the Twins and become a little bit better than even we thought at the skills that he does posses.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Kepler is the guy I would be dangling in trade talks. His value is high currently and the Twins likely wouldn't miss him too terribly.

This is the direction I'm leaning toward as well. In this organization, Kepler is valuable and expendable. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Meh, what are the Twins supposed to do, trash the guy? By all accounts Kurt has been a great teammate for the team and for whatever its worth the pitching has been pretty solid this year with him behind the dish.

The twins usually keep trade talks/rumors etc close to the vest anyways. I still think AJ would be the perfect fit since he wouldn't cost much and could be a 50/50 split with Suzuki.

Yeah, I didn't find that article discouraging at all. By all accounts, the Twins like Kurt Suzuki the human being. They're not going to publicly trash the guy, particularly when they literally have zero other viable options at the position.

 

The article leads off by saying the Twins are following a handful of catchers. I find that somewhat promising and that it's possible, maybe even likely, they think catcher is the biggest deficiency of the team right now (you can make an argument for the pen but I think catcher and bullpen are in lock-step as 1a and 1b in the problem dept.).

 

But they need to find another catcher before April of 2016. If Suzuki starts the season behind the dish again, it's likely his option year vests and that's a bad position to be in to start 2017.

[rghrbek]

 

Based on the way Hicks is playing center field now I think he could become the best defensive right fielder in baseball. He has speed, the ability to catch a ball he gets to and a cannon. Given a year or so to adapt to the position and to continue to improve at the plate we could be set for years.

 

Maybe...however, my guess is that the Twins will be signing Torii for one more year (I would not advise this, but you know TR will), so we may not get that out of Hicksy for 2 more years.

[Mike Sixel]

there is a delta between "not throwing him under the bus" and "praising him like he's really good"....and using catch phrases that you just don't read from 2015 based FOs.

 

You can say they don't "need" to find a catcher this year, but you are then just punting that spot in the order, defense and offense. They technically don't need to find a SS or RP or anything else either, unless they want to increase their odds of winning.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I think you are really selling Arcia short. Arcia has shown as much raw home run power at a young age as anyone else in the league, not named Trout. Yet if he doesn't improve on that in the next year, his trade value approaches zero? I don't see it.

I'm sure there are teams that will take him off the Twins hands for next to nothing.

A player with great raw HR power can still be a near-replacement level player.

 

A team trading for Arcia now, or in a year if he's still treading water near replacement level, will indeed only offer "next to nothing", as you say.  That's the very definition of Arcia's trade value approaching zero.

[tobi0040]

 

there is a delta between "not throwing him under the bus" and "praising him like he's really good"....and using catch phrases that you just don't read from 2015 based FOs.

 

Spot on

[SwainZag]

At least we aren't the only fan base that overrates our players.  Brewers fan from the MLBtraderumors comments:

 

 

...And Melvin probably is going to ask for Sano, Buxton, Meyers, AND another one or two highly regarded prospects up front (like Jose Berrios). As he should. Players like Lucroy come around only so often.

 

Sano, Buxton, Meyer and Berrios you say?  

[TheLeviathan]

 

At least we aren't the only fan base that overrates our players.  Brewers fan from the MLBtraderumors comments:

 

 

Sano, Buxton, Meyer and Berrios you say?  

 

I know!  How could he forget Duensing?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

At least we aren't the only fan base that overrates our players.  Brewers fan from the MLBtraderumors comments:

 

 

Sano, Buxton, Meyer and Berrios you say?  

Oh my.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

At least we aren't the only fan base that overrates our players.  Brewers fan from the MLBtraderumors comments:

 

 

 

Sano, Buxton, Meyer and Berrios you say?

 

"Players like Lucroy don't come around that often."

 

But players like Sano, Buxton, Meyer and Berrios come around all the time? lol