Article: Will Twins Address Their Most Glaring Weakness?

[KScott]

If we are looking at the Padres, their minor league system was described this way:

Everywhere besides OF and P stand out as glaring weaknesses in the minor leagues. That being said, catching seems taken care of at the major league level for a while between Derek Norris and Austin Hedges, so you could probably place it behind pitching on the priority list. A big power bat would be great....And then, of course, there's the middle infield. You aren't going to find a power bat there, but the Padres need to look for something that can help the depth.

 

http://www.gaslampball.com/2015/6/4/8731167/mlb-draft-2015-padres-farm-minor-league-depth

 

Given that list: I would offer the following package:

- 1B big bats: One of the two: Max Kepler or Kennys Vargas

- Middle infield: One of the three: Santana, Polano or Gordon

- A catcher of their choice from our organization (suzuki to back up hedges?)

- and a player to be named later.

 

[Willihammer]

 

I think you take that chance with Buxton.  Look - the reality is, we're going to have to take a serious risk in order to fix the position.

 

Unless anyone is crazy enough to think we roll out the Brinks trucks to Wieters' house this offseason?  Anything other than that is going to require some risk.  I think Hicks for Norris is one of the least risky paths we could take.  (It allows us to keep Plouffe or use him for another purpose for instance)

 

All it requires is a leap of faith in Buxton.

Who has more trade value at the moment, Hicks or Buxton?

 

If its Buxton, I'd seriously consider trading him for a C. Hicks is definitely the better player here and now, and quite possibly in the future too. At the very least, Buxton is not ready for the show while Hicks appears to have turned that corner.

 

edit: although if I were GM, I'd be looking for a SS before a C. I think you can scrounge up cheap value with a defensive C on the FA market still (framing, etc). Not to mention the injury risk with that position would make me leary of investing too much in it.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Willihammer

[CaliTwins]

They should just Joe Mauer back at catcher and platoon him with Suzuki. Instant upgrade behind the plate and frees up 1st for either Sano or Ploufe.

[glunn]

 

They should just Joe Mauer back at catcher and platoon him with Suzuki. Instant upgrade behind the plate and frees up 1st for either Sano or Ploufe.

This has been debated in other threads and the overwhelming consensus is that the risk to Mauer's long-term health is unacceptable.  Whether or not you agree, let's not resurrect that debate here.

[stringer bell]

 

I don't know what the Twins are going to do at catcher. Stuart Turner hasn't hit enough to be much more than a backup. Mitch Garver's stats look unimpressive, but he got off to an awful start. He may be our best internal bet right now. That would still be a couple year wait.

Turner is again coming on in the second half of the season, as he did last year at Fort Myers. He's hit .295 in July and .286 in the last 30 days. I don't know if he'll ever be more than a backup, but from what I've seen myself and reports I've read, he is a fine defensive catcher. I wonder if he can get off to a good start that it might flip the switch for his offense.

[TheLeviathan]

Who has more trade value at the moment, Hicks or Buxton?

 

If its Buxton, I'd seriously consider trading him for a C. Hicks is definitely the better player here and now, and quite possibly in the future too. At the very least, Buxton is not ready for the show while Hicks appears to have turned that corner.

 

edit: although if I were GM, I'd be looking for a SS before a C. I think you can scrounge up cheap value with a defensive C on the FA market still (framing, etc). Not to mention the injury risk with that position would make me leary of investing too much in it.

I don't know, they are good questions to ponder. But I think our contending wagon is partially hitched to Buxton so I think it's going to be really tough to deal him. I also think he starts 2016 in CF, which means we should look to deal Hicks or Arcia for other needs soon.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Is an OPS+ of 98 for a (ahem) limited defender at a corner even that good?

When the guy just barely turned 24, yes, it's pretty good.

[spinowner]

 

Who has more trade value at the moment, Hicks or Buxton?

 

If its Buxton, I'd seriously consider trading him for a C. Hicks is definitely the better player here and now, and quite possibly in the future too. At the very least, Buxton is not ready for the show while Hicks appears to have turned that corner.

 

edit: although if I were GM, I'd be looking for a SS before a C. I think you can scrounge up cheap value with a defensive C on the FA market still (framing, etc). Not to mention the injury risk with that position would make me leary of investing too much in it.

I'm trying to find the most diplomatic way possible to say that this is an astoundingly bad idea. Buxton is 21 years old. Can you name another 21-year-old who has a bigger upside? I can't think of any. I wouldn't even think about trading Buxton for anyone unless I also had Mike Trout on my team, and even then I'd have a hard time doing it. If Buxton gets traded for a catcher he'd have to be better than Johnny Bench.

[tobi0040]

 

When the guy just barely turned 24, yes, it's pretty good.

 

Given his age that is OK.  You have to factor in a corner outfielder is expected to hit better than average and the fact that his defense is well below average.

[sche47]

Someone help me.  What is the heck is the problem with "forcing" Mauer to finish his career at catcher?  Injuries, prolonging his career?  $23M a year?  I say put him to good use.  First base can go to Vargas, put Plouffe at first and Sano at third.  This team needs offense and our best catcher is plugging up first base.

[tobi0040]

 

I'm trying to find the most diplomatic way possible to say that this is an astoundingly bad idea. Buxton is 21 years old. Can you name another 21-year-old who has a bigger upside? I can't think of any. I wouldn't even think about trading Buxton for anyone unless I also had Mike Trout on my team, and even then I'd have a hard time doing it. If Buxton gets traded for a catcher he'd have to be better than Johnny Bench.

 

I completely agree with you.  You don't trade the #1 prospect in the game who is 21 because you have a current need on your team.  Buxton for Lucroy, Susac?  You are talking about a 2 year rental for a 30 year old who then will demand a huge contract (Lucroy) or Susac, who was in the 90th overall range last year.  Those would be the guys theoretically available.

 

And of course Buxton has more trade value than HIcks.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Someone help me.  What is the heck is the problem with "forcing" Mauer to finish his career at catcher?  Injuries, prolonging his career?  $23M a year?  I say put him to good use.  First base can go to Vargas, put Plouffe at first and Sano at third.  This team needs offense and our best catcher is plugging up first base.

Mauer suffered a serious brain injury. We've had this discussion many times and it's a sore subject with many posters. If you wish to discuss it, feel free to find one of the Mauer threads and continue the discussion there but expect polarized responses if you decide to go down that road.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Given his age that is OK.  You have to factor in a corner outfielder is expected to hit better than average and the fact that his defense is well below average.

Absolutely, I'm not saying it's great or anything but he has yet to get into a rhythm and all of his plate appearances came as a 21-23 year old (he went down with injury a few days before his 24th birthday).

 

He might be an oft-injured player and maybe he'll never get into a rhythm but Arcia has loads of talent. He's probably the best pure hitter to come through the Twins system in the past 2-3 years, non Buxton/Sano edition.

[Willihammer]

 

I'm trying to find the most diplomatic way possible to say that this is an astoundingly bad idea. Buxton is 21 years old. Can you name another 21-year-old who has a bigger upside? I can't think of any. I wouldn't even think about trading Buxton for anyone unless I also had Mike Trout on my team, and even then I'd have a hard time doing it. If Buxton gets traded for a catcher he'd have to be better than Johnny Bench.

Well I wouldn't give him away but there are two center fielders on this roster. One who is ready to go and one who pretty clearly isn't. People are talking about trading the first one, but if the 2nd one is a better trade chip, why not trade that guy? Because you risk forgoing an incremental improvement at CF? There is probably more room for improvement at C or SS. If the trade is fair, that would help the team the most.

[tobi0040]

 

Mauer suffered a serious brain injury. We've had this discussion many times and it's a sore subject with many posters. If you wish to discuss it, feel free to find one of the Mauer threads and continue the discussion there but expect polarized responses if you decide to go down that road.

 

Yup.  I would say that everyone agrees moving Mauer to catcher and effectively swapping Suzuki for Arcia in the lineup would be a short term boost.  There is no disagreement about this.

 

But a vast majority of people also understand that it is never happening because of that whole brain thing and it is really hard to fault that line of thinking.

[tobi0040]

 

Well I wouldn't give him away but there are two center fielders on this roster. One who is ready to go and one who pretty clearly isn't. People are talking about trading the first one, but if the 2nd one is a better trade chip, why not trade that guy? Because you risk forgoing an incremental improvement at CF? There is probably more room for improvement at C or SS. If the trade is fair, that would help the team the most.

 

Let's take a step back.  We gave up on Gomez, then traded Span and Revere and gave CF to HIcks.  It has been a really disastrous expiriment.  Now Hicks has a .706 OPS in 120 AB's, it is a little premature to clear the way for him again, let alone trade a guy with 100 times more upside.

 

I also don't think the too many CF's is an issue.  If Rosario and Hicks profile as .720 OPS type hitters they would be excellent in the corners.  Balls will not drop in the OF with those two and Buxton.

 

 

 

[Willihammer]

 

Let's take a step back.  We gave up on Gomez, then traded Span and Revere and gave CF to HIcks.  It has been a really disastrous expiriment.  Now Hicks has a .706 OPS in 120 AB's, it is a little premature to clear the way for him again, let alone trade a guy with 100 times more upside.

 

I also don't think the too many CF's is an issue.  If Rosario and Hicks profile as .720 OPS type hitters they would be excellent in the corners.  Balls will not drop in the OF with those two and Buxton.

I'd be more open to that idea if there were a C in the pipeline who looked promising. But I'm thinking about marginal gains and putting 2 CFers in the OF seems like a luxury that this team can't afford given their SS and C situations.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm trying to find the most diplomatic way possible to say that this is an astoundingly bad idea. Buxton is 21 years old. Can you name another 21-year-old who has a bigger upside? I can't think of any. I wouldn't even think about trading Buxton for anyone unless I also had Mike Trout on my team, and even then I'd have a hard time doing it. If Buxton gets traded for a catcher he'd have to be better than Johnny Bench.

 

Not to get off topic, but yes, I can name several 21 year olds with bigger upside.....

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

 

Someone help me.  What is the heck is the problem with "forcing" Mauer to finish his career at catcher?  Injuries, prolonging his career?  $23M a year?  I say put him to good use.  First base can go to Vargas, put Plouffe at first and Sano at third.  This team needs offense and our best catcher is plugging up first base.

His beard would get caught in the catcher's mask, so it's a no go. Sorry.

 

What's the latest on Pinto? Any chance he's healthy this season?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Oy. Trading Buxton for a catcher is a fool's game. You're trading a top centerfielder who can play 160 games for a guy who can play maybe 120.

 

Catchers are valuable because of positional scarcity but they suffer the same problem found in trading for starting pitching... Their ability to impact the season is somewhat limited due to the fact they spend a limited amount of time on the field.

 

Nevermind that I don't know if there's a single catcher in MLB or MiLB that I feel is a worthy trade for Buxton. Obviously, there's Posey but that's not going to happen so there you go.

 

Buxton is one of those guys who profiles to be good at literally everything he does. He might not be a generational talent but he's not far from it, either.

 

You don't trade that guy. You just don't.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Not to get off topic, but yes, I can name several 21 year olds with bigger upside.....

Who? I'm curious because Buxton is the complete package. His upside is Mike Trout. Now there's about a 99% chance that he won't be Mike Trout because that's an absurd expectation for any player but Buxton has that upside.

 

And if your upside the best baseball player I've ever seen play the game, that makes it *really hard* to say there are a bunch of guys with more upside.

[Vanimal46]

This thread has gone to the subject of trading Buxton?!

 

To quote Vince Lombardi "WHAT THE HELL is going on out here?!"

[Mike Sixel]

Carlos Corriea for one. All that bragging on this site about Buxton over him looks silly so far, just as it looked silly last year, and earlier this year.

 

Possibles:

Lindor

Seager

Gallo

Giolito

 

guys I thought were 21, but are now 22:

Harper

Machado

Betts

 

Look, Buxton is one of the best players under 22 out there......but it's not hard to find names that are close to him in potential.

[Willihammer]

 

Oy. Trading Buxton for a catcher is a fool's game. You're trading a top centerfielder who can play 160 games for a guy who can play maybe 120.

 

Catchers are valuable because of positional scarcity but they suffer the same problem found in trading for starting pitching... Their ability to impact the season is somewhat limited due to the fact they spend a limited amount of time on the field.

 

Nevermind that I don't know if there's a single catcher in MLB or MiLB that I feel is a worthy trade for Buxton. Obviously, there's Posey but that's not going to happen so there you go.

 

Buxton is one of those guys who profiles to be good at literally everything he does. He might not be a generational talent but he's not far from it, either.

 

You don't trade that guy. You just don't.

So you would trade a starting P for a C then?

[tobi0040]

 

Carlos Corriea for one. All that bragging on this site about Buxton over him looks silly so far, just as it looked silly last year, and earlier this year.

 

Possibles:

Lindor

Seager

Gallo

Giolito

 

guys I thought were 21, but are now 22:

Harper

Machado

Betts

 

Look, Buxton is one of the best players under 22 out there......but it's not hard to find names that are close to him in potential.

 

I will give you Correa.  I am guessing the initial comment was specific to prospects.  But when you factor in control, Harper would be a rental at this point.

 

No way I trade Buxton for Betts, $100M Seager, or Lindor.

 

I also don't get the people that talked up Buxton that now look silly.  He entered the year the #1 prospect.  After almost a year off he had an OPS of .840 in AA.  116 total bases in 59 games and he swiped 20 bags.  I think you are putting a little too much stock in 11 big league games.

Edited July 21, 2015 by tobi0040

[tobi0040]

 

So you would trade a starting P for a C then?

 

Pitchers only play 20% of the games, but they have a much bigger impact when they do.  A hitter hits 1/9 of the time.  A pitcher is 50% of every play.

[Mike Sixel]

It wasn't the talking him up, it was the really braggy way people were SO SURE he was better than Correia and the Astros were IDIOTS for passing on Buxton. That attitude was (is?) all over this site the last year.

 

this wasn't about "control" or "cost"....it was about how good a player he is compared to others. I didn't even look at guys drafted in the last 2 years, so there may be more.

[Brock Beauchamp]

So you would trade a starting P for a C then?

I'm in not hurry to trade pitching but that's what it will probably take to get a decent catcher. It takes talent to get talent.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm in not hurry to trade pitching but that's what it will probably take to get a decent catcher. It takes talent to get talent.

 

Right, either they continue to go well below talent level at catcher, or they have to deal real talent to get it (I don't see a FA catcher they would sign next year).

[Willihammer]

 

I'm in not hurry to trade pitching but that's what it will probably take to get a decent catcher. It takes talent to get talent.

You don't have to convince me, I'm the one who suggested trading Buxton. Which SP(s) would you trade?