Article: Twins Sign Dominican SS Wander Javier

[Mike Sixel]

 

Same as the amatuer draft that we have now, they dont have control either.

 

and that's a good thing for the employees?

[kab21]

Actually the only problem with the current system is that it greatly benefits teams to completely blow through the cap because the penalties aren't stiff enough.  If they make the penalties stiff enough then this is better than the draft. 

 

One nice thing that I like is that teams can trade pool money to others (like trading a draft pick).  They are also free to choose to blow it all on one guy or spread it out if they have several sleepers targeted.  It is kind of dumb that MLB teams can't draft a player that they really like because they pick #5 and #50 but the player gets picked in the 30's.

[drjim]

 

and that's a good thing for the employees?

 

For most of them probably. Take some control out of the less than scrupulous guys who funnel talent.

[Mike Sixel]

I'd prefer a change of some kind to both drafts.......

 

some combo of spending pools and draft picks .

 

And, yes, one of the main purposes of the draft is to keep wages down.

[2wins87]

 

So will the Twins let this kid get his feet wet in the DSL or will they just wait till next year?

 

The guys signed during this years signing period aren't allowed to start playing in any league until next year.  But they can start getting instruction at the team's academy.

[bird]

 

If you watch games, buy tickets, eat at the ballpark, purchase merchandise, and pay taxes, sure it is your money. Not all of it, of course, but it isn't like this cash is coming out of a baseball trust fund from a long deceased donor.

 

 

Once you spend it, it ain't yours.

[kab21]

 

I'd prefer a change of some kind to both drafts.......

 

some combo of spending pools and draft picks .

 

And, yes, one of the main purposes of the draft is to keep wages down.

But it is no different than the int'l bonus pools (assuming 5 teams don't blow through their cap).  There is a limited amount of money in both the domestic draft and int'l FA.

 

Isn't the current MLB draft a combo of spending pools and draft picks?

[bird]

 

Sorry, I exaggerated since I remembered more 500K price tags for 200-300K guys like Barrie but they have been signing alot of 200-300K guys and it seems like they have done a pretty good job picking them.  One thing that is very strange (and frustrating) about the Twins is that they took an unusual path signing Sano, Kepler and Polanco in one offseason and then they cut back until 2012 when teams had bonus pools.  At that point they started spending more (pretty much their entire bonus pool).

 

I know the discussion was about 1 - 4M prospect vs 5 - 800K prospects but is there really a difference between a 200-300K prospects and 500-800K prospects?  Can they really be dismissed as cheaper guys?

 

2013 - Diaz 1.4M, Tapia 550K, Martinez 340K, Molina 300K, Barrie 250K, Balbuena 175K, Gomez 150K, Herrera 135K, Verkerk ?

2012 - Minier 1.4M, Thorpe 500K, Hu 220K, Silva 175K, Tovar 100K, Quezada 150K

2011 - Gonzalez 650K , Silva 370K, Perez 300K, Romero 260K, Jorge 330K

 

That is 5 interesting prospects that have recently ranked in the top 25 (on someone's list) out of two years of signings.  I am certainly not going to complain about these cheaper guys.

 

First off, if there was "equal distribution" among teams, each would have signed one 'top 30" international guy each year. In this regard, the Twins haven't cheated us recently (Javier, Diaz, Minier, Sano, etc.) although the real test is the results. Any one who questions whether the Twins are competing for international talent effectively just needs to look objectively at the pipeline. Scouting is the separator, not cash.

[Mike Sixel]

 

But it is no different than the int'l bonus pools (assuming 5 teams don't blow through their cap).  There is a limited amount of money in both the domestic draft and int'l FA.

 

Isn't the current MLB draft a combo of spending pools and draft picks?

 

I'd make some bold changes.

 

1. the worst 5-10 teams get $10MM to sign any 3 players they want, international or US.They have a 3 week window to do this. Each team gets the same money. You can trade money to someone else in this pool, if you are in it.

 

2. Any player not signed goes to the next pool period. The next 10 teams get 2 weeks to sign guys, but the max is $1MM per player. Each team has a pool of $2MM. They can sign up to 3.You can trade money to someone else in this pool, if you are in it.

 

3. Any player not signed goes into a draft, of the teams not in the playoffs. The order is best team to worst team, rewarding those teams that did well. These players can make up to $1MM, but take the chance on not going to a team they want to go to.

 

4. Any player not signed goes into a draft. This is like a regular draft. Players can sign for up to 750K.

 

Clearly, the details are not 100% certain, but something like that. Lots of players get market money, and to choose their team......that's a big step forward. I'd say International guys have to be 18, just like US guys, to be in this. How to manage the international stuff is the trickiest part, imo.

[Mike Sixel]

 

First off, if there was "equal distribution" among teams, each would have signed one 'top 30" international guy each year. In this regard, the Twins haven't cheated us recently (Javier, Diaz, Minier, Sano, etc.) although the real test is the results. Any one who questions whether the Twins are competing for international talent effectively just needs to look objectively at the pipeline. Scouting is the separator, not cash.

 

I'd guess if they really thought those low price guys were doing to be this good, they'd have offered them more, and had deals in place early, to make sure they didn't lose them. Clearly, the real key is scouting, but let's not pretend that they think the $250K guys are as likely to work out as the $1MM guys......

[blairpaul715]

 

and that's a good thing for the employees?

Good thing for baseball and the fans.

[kab21]

But what does accomplish that a hard(er) spending cap and the disaparity in available pool money doesn't? 

 

Talk about punishing good teams with 50-75 players being off the board before they pick.  Why not increase the bonus pool size between the non playoff teams and the playoff teams?

[bird]

 

I'd guess if they really thought those low price guys were doing to be this good, they'd have offered them more, and had deals in place early, to make sure they didn't lose them. Clearly, the real key is scouting, but let's not pretend that they think the $250K guys are as likely to work out as the $1MM guys......

 

I pretty much agree that the $1M guys become that, basically, because teams are in competition for their services. But let's not pretend that the international marketplace is clean and orderly. A lot happens behind the scenes involving relationships and deals between player "agents" and team scouts. It's extremely likely, because of the fuzziness of things, that the Twins liked Polanco, for example, much better than they liked half the prospects on BA's top 30 list. BA's list should be viewed with a whole quarry of salt IMO. How many of the guys from BA's top 30 from 2011 have ever been on BA's Top 100 prospect list COMPARED to international signees that were NOT considered to be top 30 guys? These signing bonuses don't reflect the prospect's true status very clearly.

Edited July 7, 2015 by birdwatcher

[blairpaul715]

 

First off, if there was "equal distribution" among teams, each would have signed one 'top 30" international guy each year. In this regard, the Twins haven't cheated us recently (Javier, Diaz, Minier, Sano, etc.) although the real test is the results. Any one who questions whether the Twins are competing for international talent effectively just needs to look objectively at the pipeline. Scouting is the separator, not cash.

I agree that scouting is most important, and would be the separator, all things being equal, but if X team can sign 8 players for whatever they want, and team Y only signs one because they stay inside the limit, then team X is going to hit the lottery more often................and one could argue that scouting will not always be the separator either, unlike the draft, because if you really like certain players, they could all sign elsewhere...................I mean all the Domican players grew up hearing about the Yankees, so would you rather sign with the big name Yankees or Dodgers or the little heard about Twins??

[Mike Sixel]

 

But what does accomplish that a hard(er) spending cap and the disaparity in available pool money doesn't? 

 

Talk about punishing good teams with 50-75 players being off the board before they pick.  Why not increase the bonus pool size between the non playoff teams and the playoff teams?

 

1. More players get market money, and are not limited as much.

2. More players get to pick where they go.

3. It isn't punishment, if part of the purpose is to help bad teams get better faster........

 

You seem to only be looking at the team side, and not the player side. And, if you don't let the bad teams to have some advantages, it doesn't work very well. If you only set a pool, and everyone can play, you are once again keeping wages down. Like I said, the details are debatable, but I'd like to see more players get market money, and teams to be able to really go for the guys they love, and for more players to choose where they go. Those would be my top priorities, along with giving bad teams an advantage in signing more/better players.

 

I forgot to add, if a bottom 10 teams signs 3 players in any 1 year, they can only sign 1 the next year. That way teams are less incented to tank multiple years.

[bird]

 

I agree that scouting is most important, and would be the separator, all things being equal, but if X team can sign 8 players for whatever they want, and team Y only signs one because they stay inside the limit, then team X is going to hit the lottery more often................and one could argue that scouting will not always be the separator either, unlike the draft, because if you really like certain players, they could all sign elsewhere...................I mean all the Domican players grew up hearing about the Yankees, so would you rather sign with the big name Yankees or Dodgers or the little heard about Twins??

 

 

Yeah, I agree with this. Before the current crappy system was put in place, the separators were twofold: cash and scouting. For years, Carl Pohlad refused to spend and the Twins were not effective internationally. Finally, they decided to spend AND had an edge in scouting and relationships over most clubs, and unfortunately for them, the current system was put in place. This system evens the playing field in terms of spending, and to a lesser extent but still materially, in terms of scouting. So now, the most important separator is cheating. Sad.

[righty8383]

 

The guys signed during this years signing period aren't allowed to start playing in any league until next year.  But they can start getting instruction at the team's academy.

Didn't know that, thank you

[GACbaseball]

I don't think there's a way to make it fair. It seems like Japan, Venezuela, Cuba, and some other countries will not participate in the world draft. I wonder if these countries (other than Japan probably) would agree to be a part of the draft if charities in their country received a matched amount of money that their players signed for.

Example: Twins sign Wander Javier for $4million after picking him in the draft. They then must spend $4million building roads in the Dominican.

 

Obviously this isn't very realistic but it would atleast help the countries where these athletes come from