I believed that a long stint in AAA this year was his last chance and I thought he could still be part of the future.  But his bat is still atrocious and he still makes comical misplays in CF.

 

He's a 4th OF.  I don't like it but I concede it.

Agreed. I don't get all the posts saying he is showing he is good. He cannot hit.

 

I believed that a long stint in AAA this year was his last chance and I thought he could still be part of the future.  But his bat is still atrocious and he still makes comical misplays in CF.

 

He's a 4th OF.  I don't like it but I concede it.

 

Yep.  That one hurt last night.    As hard as some of us have (justifiably) been on him, still felt bad for the kid, it must have been spirit-crushing.    It certainly opened the door a little wider for the Twins FO to place the call for Buxton.

Edited June 13, 201511 yr by jokin

I've hoped for him to do well, and he's certainly fielding better than in previous years- that ball would have probably been 10 feet over Schafer's head, though that's an abysmally low standard- but his bat just refuses to meet the ball squarely.  I'm ready for Buxton.

99 plate appearances--67 OPS+, defensive stats are average, according to BBRef. The eye tests says he's improved, but he is more substandard as a regular than Escobar (for sure). Rosario is the better hitter IMHO and it isn't that close. I just can't see a scenario where he can be an asset playing anywhere but center field.

While I think Hicks should've caught that, I think he's the lesser problem right now and is an easy scapegoat to last night's loss. An 8th inning RP shouldn't be giving up a walk then a single followed by another RP giving up a hard hit ball to deep center. Thats the more glaring problem, not Hicks.

He hasn't had near a long enough shot this year for the data to be of any use. The same should be said of Rosario. Looking at the data, you really don't know what you have in a player until they pass 1000 plate appearances.

 

It is time for Buxton though regardless of how Hicks had performed.

Seriously though, Hicks has had the massive bullseye on him from the day they drafted Buxton, the universally agreed upon heir apparent just waiting to assume his rightful place.

 

Hicks was only ever going to save himself as a starter by proving he could hit, with at least a modicum of power so he could possibly be a corner OF. He doesn't and his future is either as a 4th OF or elsewhere.

 

That isn't just based on last night's play

 

While I think Hicks should've caught that, I think he's the lesser problem right now and is an easy scapegoat to last night's loss. An 8th inning RP shouldn't be giving up a walk then a single followed by another RP giving up a hard hit ball to deep center. Thats the more glaring problem, not Hicks.

 

They all were/(have been/will be- glaring problems-  all requiring similar solutions:

 

:shoot:         :fenforcer:  :s-instagib:

Edited June 13, 201511 yr by jokin

 

They all were/(have been/will be- glaring problems-  all requiring similar solutions:

 

:shoot:         :fenforcer:  :s-instagib:

I don't disagree with that. But what I'm suggesting is 'first things first.' And that I think you (the collective 'you' not the singular 'you') are using this one bad play to scapegoat Hicks to support an argument to get Buxton here now. And Buxton coming up is something I'm more 50-50 about … at least as a first step.

Hicks has been pretty great in CF thus far, errors will happen (and that wasn't a can of corn anyway)

 

This is a reason why you need RP who can actually strike a guy out once in awhile, also I am much more concerned with the disappearance of the offense, hard to win many games when you arescoring 2 or less runs a game.

 

While I think Hicks should've caught that, I think he's the lesser problem right now and is an easy scapegoat to last night's loss. An 8th inning RP shouldn't be giving up a walk then a single followed by another RP giving up a hard hit ball to deep center. Thats the more glaring problem, not Hicks.

 

I don't want to make Hicks into the scapegoat because you don't win ballgames with 2 runs on 5 hits, but he has to make that catch.

Even if he makes that catch I put the twins odds at winning that game at like 20%

 

While I think Hicks should've caught that, I think he's the lesser problem right now and is an easy scapegoat to last night's loss. An 8th inning RP shouldn't be giving up a walk then a single followed by another RP giving up a hard hit ball to deep center. Thats the more glaring problem, not Hicks.

 

The bullpen can suck and Hicks can still have made a god awful play.  They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

And this isn't Hicks' first clown rodeo out there in CF.

 

Even if he makes that catch I put the twins odds at winning that game at like 20%

 

Well, at least they end the 8th 2-2 and not 6-2.  I consider that a pretty major difference.

Regardless of the defense, he can't hit MLB pitching.

 

Well, at least they end the 8th 2-2 and not 6-2.  I consider that a pretty major difference.

Again … I put the onus of that on the RP, not Hicks. I'm not saying that Hicks should stay out there forever and that his non-catch is 'forgivable.' I'm saying that it's not equal to the relief pitching problem and that they should take a much higher percentage in the loss. And everyone else who didn't hit when there were opportunities to score more runs earlier in the game. I just think you are laying too much at one person's feet.

 

Even if he makes that catch I put the twins odds at winning that game at like 20%

 

He catches it, the inning ends at 2-2 at they have a fighting chance at least.  Hicks looked like Troy Williamson out there trying to catch a pass.

He was doomed as soon as they drafted Buxton and Buxton had his explosive start.  Any flaw Hicks had was magnified in discussion.  Now he has a better average than last year and his OBP is much worse.  I thopught his .347 OBP last year was outstanding (4th best on Twins team) despite his average and showed promise had he stayed at the MLB level.  Instead he was sent down to learn how to hit.  This year he started in AAA where he improved his BA to .336.  He did exactly what everyone wanted and did it very well.  Now he is called up again and because he hasn't shown his AAA improvements "YET" - people are starting to loose faith.  

 

Brian Dozier had a:

.234 BA and .271 OBP his rookie year - 2012

.244 BA and .312 OBP his second year - 2013

.242 BA and .345 OBP his third year - 2014

.262 BA and .344 OBP this year - 2015

 

Sometimes you have to let them (youngins) find themselves at the MLB level before you define their worth.  How we all decide who is worthy of time and who isn't is disturbing.  Management yes - Fans generally assume based on bias.  Give the man a season to define his worth IMO

 

Again … I put the onus of that on the RP, not Hicks. I'm not saying that Hicks should stay out there forever and that his non-catch is 'forgivable.' I'm saying that it's not equal to the relief pitching problem and that they should take a much higher percentage in the loss. And everyone else who didn't hit when there were opportunities to score more runs earlier in the game. I just think you are laying too much at one person's feet.

 

It was a hard hit ball, but that was very catchable.  Sure the pitching put them in that position, but you have to make that catch.  

 

I don't disagree with that. But what I'm suggesting is 'first things first.' And that I think you (the collective 'you' not the singular 'you') are using this one bad play to scapegoat Hicks to support an argument to get Buxton here now. And Buxton coming up is something I'm more 50-50 about … at least as a first step.

 

I'm vehemently against scapegoating.  If it was just one bad play, I wouldn't have expressed that sentiment.  Hicks has demonstrated over and over that he is who he is- a 4th OF.

 

The Buxton move is perhaps the easiest move to upgrade the team.  Sorting out the pen is going to take some sorting time.

So what happens when Buxton makes an error?

I concede that Hicks may end up being a career 4th OF. However, IMO, Hicks is not the 25th guy to be sent down for Buxton. Hicks is #6 in OBP on this team  ...which is insane (with my admittedly arbitrary cutoff of 70 PA).

 

In terms of lineup futility, Robinson, Suzuki, Santana (when he was here), and Escobar are on a lower level than Hicks...which is hard to believe. I'll grant that Buxton doesn't play catcher or SS so Zuke and Escobar (as a SS) are safe. Still, they should be able to cut the bullpen by one or drop Robinson before they go after Hicks.

 

Rosario is being inflated by a team-leading BABIP. He's walked three times this year, and I think he could come crashing down. Not that he should go to AAA, but just to moderate any opinions asserting that Rosario (in his current form) is the new long term compliment to Buxton. That said, he's done a lot more with his first ML opportunity than Hicks did.

I still think hicks finds his bat and becomes a close to average hitter but a great LF or RF with Buxton in CF and becomes an asset for the next several years. He looks better at the plate IMHO, some guys just take a while

 

Again … I put the onus of that on the RP, not Hicks. I'm not saying that Hicks should stay out there forever and that his non-catch is 'forgivable.' I'm saying that it's not equal to the relief pitching problem and that they should take a much higher percentage in the loss. And everyone else who didn't hit when there were opportunities to score more runs earlier in the game. I just think you are laying too much at one person's feet.

 

I'm not saying he single-handedly lost that game because of Hicks, that's a strawman.  But he sure had a major part in it along with the relievers.

 

This is about the larger picture with him and last night was the straw that broke the camel's back for me personally.

Edited June 13, 201511 yr by TheLeviathan

 

So what happens when Buxton makes an error?

 

We'll wait until he makes 6-7 more and nearly concusses himself a few times running into walls before we worry about it?

 

I'm not saying he single-handedly lost that game because of Hicks, that's a strawman.  But he sure had a major part in it along with the relievers.

 

This is about the larger picture with him and last night was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Well, I disagree and still think you are putting too much on this. <shrug>

In terms of lineup futility, Robinson, Suzuki, Santana (when he was here), and Escobar are on a lower level than Hicks...which is hard to believe

Not that much lower, sadly. Did anyone have much confidence when Hicks came to the plate with the bases loaded last night?

Brian Dozier had a:

.234 BA and .271 OBP his rookie year - 2012

.244 BA and .312 OBP his second year - 2013

.242 BA and .345 OBP his third year - 2014

.262 BA and .344 OBP this year - 2015

 

Dozier was a league average bat his second year, thanks to SLG. It appears Hicks has regressed in terms of SLG.

 

This is about the larger picture ...

It seems quite the opposite to me.

 

He dropped a ball he should have caught, but His defense has been damn good so far this year.

 

Lorenzo Cain has four errors this year...would it be fair to say focusing on those would be about "the bigger picture?" If not, why would it be fair to focus on one Hicks play?

 

Hicks hasn't hit, but his defense has been just fine. He might not drop another ball that hits his glove for years.

 

"The bigger picture" is, will he hit?

 

The "bigger picture" about last nights loss was the bullpen, which many of us have identified as a weakness long ago. Thompson came into a tie game and walked the 8 hitter, a LH hitter, on 5 pitches. That's the bigger picture.