Alex Meyer Moved to Bullpen

[twinssouth]

Real bummer on Meyer to the bullpen. I agree with the guys above that it's an indictment on the coaching staff. How can he go from a stud a year ago to this. I don't agree with the decision. They need a new pitching coach rather than sending him to the bullpen. In addition, it's only May, let him work thru it. After all, isn't that what the minors are for; player development. This stinks. The Twins have been lousy in developing pitchers, time for some housecleaning.

[nicksaviking]

If the Twins had passed up offers for top 50 prospects and held on to Span during three unwatchable seasons, the front office would have been crushed, as they should have.

 

If the Twins really want Span for what ever reason, they can have him next year when he'll be a free agent and the team is worth watching. Hell, if the Nats keep losing they might be able to get him this July.

[gil4]

 

  On 5/22/2015 at 10:01 PM, drjim said:

And it's not like Meyer is done, he still could contribute substantially going forward, just not to the level that was dreamed on at the time of the trade.

 

I'm not even ready to concede that.  The timeline is pushed back a bit and the odds are a bit longer, but if something clicks he could be the RH Randy Johnson by August.

[gil4]

 

  On 5/22/2015 at 10:55 PM, twinssouth said:

The Twins have been lousy in developing pitchers, time for some housecleaning.

 

Didn't we just do a lot of that this past off-season??

[nicksaviking]

  On 5/22/2015 at 11:05 PM, gil4 said:

Didn't we just do a lot of that this past off-season??

I don't think the scouting changed. Not saying they're to blame.

[drjim]

 

  On 5/22/2015 at 11:03 PM, gil4 said:

I'm not even ready to concede that.  The timeline is pushed back a bit and the odds are a bit longer, but if something clicks he could be the RH Randy Johnson by August.

 

Good point. SP prospects are a strange breed, can be so up and down with little rhyme or reason. Stepping away from starting for a couple weeks could turn him around. I'm not counting on that, but do think he could contribute as a two pitch reliever pretty quickly.

[drjim]

 

  On 5/22/2015 at 11:08 PM, nicksaviking said:

I don't think the scouting changed. Not saying they're to blame.

 

Why does anyone have to be to "blame" here? Prospects sometimes don't take linear paths to their ceilings.

 

(I'm not directing this at you specifically)

[Siehbiscuit]

  On 5/22/2015 at 10:40 PM, Thrylos said:

Short-sighted move.  You just cannot move your best starting prospect (and the only one with top of the rotation potential) to the pen because of a mechanical flaw (or two) that has him off the strike zone slightly more than last season.  You get him coaching.  And if a coach does not work, you get through coaches, until you find one who will make it work.  Removing Marty Mason would had been a better step...

 

And the kicker is that Meyer is not pitching that much different than last season.  His FIP is 3.76 vs 3.66 last season, K% is down 22% from 27.1% and BB% is slightly up 12.9% from 11.3%.  His BABIP (.419) is what kills him, and if the Twins had any sense, they would realize that the scrubs du jour like Brock Peterson, Argenis Diaz and Jose Martinez who are playing the IF are hurting the team.

 

Really disappointed by that move.  Major housecleaning in the Front Office is needed.

Why are you always so extreme? We all know the definition of insanity. If this had been the MLB rotation he would have come up with a mysterious illness or injury to break the bad rhythm mojo. Sometimes changing it up is the best way to go. I don't have any facts, as do any of us, but I would find it highly illogical that this be permanent. His ceiling is still the highest but his results are not good. Let's see how'd he change plays out before we set the couches on fire.

[mudcat14]

At the time of the trade, I'm sure the Twins were hoping Meyer would become a right-handed version of Randy Johnson. But everyone knew there was a risk. Finding a consistent release point and fluid delivery at 6'9" ain't easy. With the arms the Twins have on the horizon, I'd be satisfied at this point if he can become a harder throwing version Jon Rauch.

[twinsnorth49]

Far from over, a couple of weeks in the pen and if he sorts it out he's back on track. Would prefer the road be less bumpy but it's not like he's driven off the cliff here.

 

He'll start for the Twins at some point.

[jokin]

 

  On 5/22/2015 at 11:37 PM, mudcat14 said:

At the time of the trade, I'm sure the Twins were hoping Meyer would become a right-handed version of Randy Johnson. But everyone knew there was a risk. Finding a consistent release point and fluid delivery at 6'9" ain't easy. With the arms the Twins have on the horizon, I'd be satisfied at this point if he can become a harder throwing version Jon Rauch.

 

Your first conclusion is quite logical, but if the end result is Jon Rauch, this trade could only be regarded as disastrous,  thanfully, it's far too soon to take this assumption as the end-case conclusion.... as Twinsnorth states above, this is a bump in the road, it might go on for a few months or a few years, but he'll start eventually, hope it's for the Twins.

[curt1965]

Hey guys, there are few guarantees in life. Mr. Meyer was never a sure thing, and he might still be fine pitcher. I don't know if he ever was projected a be a No. 1, and that is why the word "project" is in the English language. I think Jose Berrios might be the stud everyone is looking for. He doesn't miss as many bats as Meyer, but he also doesn't walk people. Relax everyone.......the cupboard isn't bare!

[Rosterman]

You wonder about moving him back to AA for a spell, perhaps. The Twins still have three years for him to make a crack at the major league rotation, assuming everyone and their mother doesn't pass him by. Of course, you keep him at Rochester to keep him working with the system there, perhaps, and also the bullpen (until the Twins jettison a couple of guys back there) is showing some weakness. Can he be injured? Is that a worry?

[jokin]

 

  On 5/22/2015 at 11:52 PM, curt1965 said:

Hey guys, there are few guarantees in life. Mr. Meyer was never a sure thing, and he might still be fine pitcher. I don't know if he ever was projected a be a No. 1, and that is why the word "project" is in the English language. I think Jose Berrios might be the stud everyone is looking for. He doesn't miss as many bats as Meyer, but he also doesn't walk people. Relax everyone.......the cupboard isn't bare!

 

All wise counsel, but like many others who have seen him pitch, trust me when I say this guy is a special talent, a talent that doesn't come around every day.  There's no one in the system with his ceiling. 

[Danchat]

Yikes. Let's hope he can still be a starter someday.

 

I am still frustrated that he never got promoted last season...

[TheLeviathan]

Tough setback for the organization and Alex.

[curt1965]

  On 5/23/2015 at 12:02 AM, jokin said:

All wise counsel, but like many others who have seen him pitch, trust me when I say this guy is a special talent, a talent that doesn't come around every day.  There's no one in the system with his ceiling.

 

Thanks for the perspective!

[Squirrel]

  On 5/23/2015 at 12:03 AM, Danchat said:

Yikes. Let's hope he can still be a starter someday.

 

I am still frustrated that he never got promoted last season...

I think it's time to let that one go and find a new frustration.

[jokin]

 

  On 5/23/2015 at 12:25 AM, ChiTownTwinsFan said:

I think it's time to let that one go and find a new frustration.

 

Speak for yourself.

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 5/22/2015 at 10:46 PM, jokin said:

100% with you on Meyer, whatever the message/approach is/has been, it's not working.

 

 

Seth seems to think they are adequately covered at the corner IF spots (to the point that Kepler and Sano shouldn't be promoted- not seeing how that's true, just how much does Ryan Walker add to the equation? He seems more like a promotion blocker at this point ), and Bernier and Beresford seem to be solid up the middle. Rosario and Hicks and Ortiz were probably fine in the OF. 

 

Kepler and Sano have been good in AA for like 3 weeks. Let's let them be good for 6 weeks before moving the up. The guys in Rochester are stop gaps, organizational guys. They, right now, are not keeping Kepler or Sano back. Sano missing a year and slumping really bad for a month was holding him back. Kepler being hurt so much in the past and not doing much until the last three weeks is why he was down. He's only been in AA for about a month after starting this season in Ft. Myers. 

 

I don't even understand the Ryan Walker reference at all. He's on the Disabled List in Cedar Rapids and played the middle infield positions.

[jimbo92107]

Think about it, what's Meyers' biggest problem? Control. Mostly the guy pitches from a wind up, so as a relief pitcher, they're going to make him pitch from the stretch. That will force him to find his balance point at the set, which hopefully will produce better command. Some starting pitchers have too many moving parts from the wind up, so they move to pitching from the set. Other starters learn to minimize their movement from the wind up, and it improves their command.

 

Simplifying Meyers' delivery may be his shortest route to the majors. Even from the set, he'll have a mid to upper 90's heater. A taller Tonkin, plus a couple mph and better off speed stuff. He might even wind up being a flame throwing closer.

[nicksaviking]

  On 5/22/2015 at 11:14 PM, drjim said:

Why does anyone have to be to "blame" here? Prospects sometimes don't take linear paths to their ceilings.

 

(I'm not directing this at you specifically)

No one has to be to blame, but the Twins do seem to have a failure in drafting and/or developing pitchers, more so than most teams, maybe all teams. Especially if they are actually trying to get front line guys who miss bats. Something's amiss, being historically awfull at strikeouts compared to the other 29 teams can't all be bad luck.

[Sweetwater]

 

  On 5/22/2015 at 11:52 PM, curt1965 said:

Hey guys, there are few guarantees in life. Mr. Meyer was never a sure thing, and he might still be fine pitcher. I don't know if he ever was projected a be a No. 1, and that is why the word "project" is in the English language. I think Jose Berrios might be the stud everyone is looking for. He doesn't miss as many bats as Meyer, but he also doesn't walk people. Relax everyone.......the cupboard isn't bare!

 

 

Wow, someone with sense. Nice!

[h2oface]

Just because "most posters" agree on something, I don't know that that is a good thing. I hated the one for one trade - an leadoff hitting above average major league centerfielder for a AA minor league hope. No time travel needed. Even little Ben Revere brought a major league pitcher and and minor league pitcher. I liked that trade just for the 2 for one, and getting rid of the noodle arm. To me, the Span/Meyer trade is already a proven bad deal because Meyer didn't start helping the team last year. Span could very well be a free agent by the time Meyer makes the show, if he ever does now. 3 years of valuable play in the majors compared to a prospect that devalues himself just about every time he takes the mound. Didn't like it then, and don't like it now. How many other new pitchers have made the show since the trade? Washington definitely didn't have that much faith in him. I still hope and root for Meyer, and wanted him up last year. Good luck to him. He needs it now.

[jokin]

 

  On 5/23/2015 at 5:05 AM, Seth Stohs said:

Kepler and Sano have been good in AA for like 3 weeks. Let's let them be good for 6 weeks before moving the up. The guys in Rochester are stop gaps, organizational guys. They, right now, are not keeping Kepler or Sano back. Sano missing a year and slumping really bad for a month was holding him back. Kepler being hurt so much in the past and not doing much until the last three weeks is why he was down. He's only been in AA for about a month after starting this season in Ft. Myers. 

 

I don't even understand the Ryan Walker reference at all. He's on the Disabled List in Cedar Rapids and played the middle infield positions.

 

My bad, Ryan Wheeler....

[jokin]

 

  On 5/23/2015 at 7:03 AM, h2oface said:

Just because "most posters" agree on something, I don't know that that is a good thing. I hated the one for one trade - an leadoff hitting above average major league centerfielder for a AA minor league hope. No time travel needed. Even little Ben Revere brought a major league pitcher and and minor league pitcher. I liked that trade just for the 2 for one, and getting rid of the noodle arm. To me, the Span/Meyer trade is already a proven bad deal because Meyer didn't start helping the team last year. Span could very well be a free agent by the time Meyer makes the show, if he ever does now. 3 years of valuable play in the majors compared to a prospect that devalues himself just about every time he takes the mound. Didn't like it then, and don't like it now. How many other new pitchers have made the show since the trade? Washington definitely didn't have that much faith in him. I still hope and root for Meyer, and wanted him up last year.

 

Meyer had actually only completed A+ ball at the time of the trade, this was a very risky deal, and a little one-sided towards the Nats who were getting pretty much a sure thing, Span's concussion issues notwithstanding.  I recall that I was pretty concerned that the Twins, who at the time were desperately in need of immediate help in the SP department, insist on a serviceable SP from the Nats as part of the deal.    I also posted Dave Cameron's negative review of the trade. with respect to the risk involved with Meyer.  Terry Ryan simply said something to the effect that "this was the cost and risk in trying to acquire a top-end SP."  

 

I still like Meyer a lot, but I'm not sure how anyone can say that this deal has not been a huge win for the Nats, thus far.

[kab21]

So a team is going to be criticized by inability to develop pitchers in the minors?  One of the biggest reasons that the Twins weren't developing any good pitchers is that they weren't filling their minors with upside guys (Garza aside) for several years.  They were drafting the next Slowey/Baker types (fine pitchers but limited).  Regardless of how this trade ends up working out (and the Revere trade) or the Stewart draft I am happy that they have changed their process. 

 

It has to be considered a given that a certain number of pitching prospects will bust.  Criticizing a team because the first high upside guy that they added MIGHT bust is shortsighted.  Meyer was always a risk and I have always chuckled a little at those that are naming every pitching prospect the Twins have and claiming that there won't be enough room in the rotation.

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 5/23/2015 at 7:58 AM, jokin said:

My bad, Ryan Wheeler....

 

Wheeler is just 26 years old and has parts of three years in the big leagues. Maybe not terrific numbers, but I like this kind of signing. There's no downside. He's still fairly young. He's had a lot of success. He's been where most of the guys want to get. And, maybe something clicks. It's a minor league signing. He's not on the 40 man, and right now, he's not blocking anyone. If he ends up being "done" (at 26) when Sano is ready, it's easy to release him (or one of the other corners that are older). 

[Thegrin]

3 years from no3, when Meyer replaces Perkins as the closer, we will all be happy that he made the switch to the Bullpen. 

[SarasotaBill]

Two reasons to move to the bullpen:

- Simplify his pitching mechanics

- Help MLB club this year

 

Nothing says he'll stay in the bullpen or return to be a starting pitcher next year.

 

Trade - results & timing

- Results will be uneven in the short term when you trade a veteran for a prospect

- Span would have help the Twins win 4-5 wins a year for the past three years - who cares. The Twins timing to win is the next six years and hopefully more after that.