Molitor didn't use Perkins in innings 9-12 with the score tied, but did run him out for the save situation in the 13th.    All the seamheads out there okay with this?    I mean, do we still even accept this win?    Or should we ask the Commish to make a "special exception" and take it off the board?

Yes, as a seamhead, I think the better move is to get your best relievers in first in a tie game. That said the call was probably closer than usual considering Graham had 8 days rest and Perkins had zero.

I don't like it but baseball often works out when you don't agree with the methodology that led to that outcome.

 

It also often fails when you agree with the methodology that led to that outcome. Baseball is an aggravating sport.

Sometimes when you play with fire you get away with it, but the longer you do it, the more likely you are to get burned.

Considering the circumstances (such as the Twins not really getting any hits after the 4th inning), I was ok with Molitor not bringing Perkins out.  But, in this case, Molitor had already used up most of the bullpen.  

 

J.R. Graham was showing some good stuff last night though.  He got through those three innings with 33 pitches.  It was pretty obvious in the 10th that the Pirates were going to have problems getting anything good to hit off of him.  And since Graham has experience as a starter in the minors, it wasn't bad to let him go a few innings in case the game went even longer.  

 

Last night's game wasn't a great example of how to manage a bullpen, but it worked this time.  I can't say that next time they use the pen that way will have the same result though.  

With a day off Monday and one today, I think Perkins should have been brought in for the 9th and 10th. It worked out this time, but could bite them big time in the future. Graham pitched well though.

Given that the Twins hadn't scored since the first inning - and that it required a Mauer home run to win the game - I understand going with the long guy and crossing your fingers... But I didn't like seeing Perkins held out of the game until the 13th inning.

 

Go with Perkins first and then fall back to your long guy if that doesn't pan out.

Is that you, Gardy?

 

Considering the circumstances (such as the Twins not really getting any hits after the 4th inning), I was ok with Molitor not bringing Perkins out.  But, in this case, Molitor had already used up most of the bullpen.  

 

J.R. Graham was showing some good stuff last night though.  He got through those three innings with 33 pitches.  It was pretty obvious in the 10th that the Pirates were going to have problems getting anything good to hit off of him.  And since Graham has experience as a starter in the minors, it wasn't bad to let him go a few innings in case the game went even longer.  

 

Last night's game wasn't a great example of how to manage a bullpen, but it worked this time.  I can't say that next time they use the pen that way will have the same result though.

Given that the Twins hadn't scored since the first inning - and that it required a Mauer home run to win the game - I understand going with the long guy and crossing your fingers... But I didn't like seeing Perkins held out of the game until the 13th inning.

 

Go with Perkins first and then fall back to your long guy if that doesn't pan out.

Let's just say it. The bench left bereft of a power bat that can get you a big hit to help end the game, 4 shutout innings from the two guys in your pen who have recently demonstrated in technicolor that they can't get anybody out, and then getting a home run from the guy you least expect it who is not named Doug Bernier.... the win last night will probably be the luckiest W of the season.

I think it was the right call, but probably not for the right reasons.  As Perk is clearly the team's best reliever, I probably would have wanted to save him for the heart of the lineup, Walker, McCutchen, Marte and then the lefty Alverez. 

 

I don't think I would have wanted to waste Perkins in the 9th for the very soft bottom of the Pittsburgh lineup.  The only good hitters didn't come up until the 10th, however since the bullpen had already been pretty depleted (due to silly 1/3 and 2/3 of an inning pitching changes earlier) I wouldn't have wanted to yank Graham if he was able to go multiple innings.  The heart of the order came up in the 13th, just in time for Perkins.

 

It worked out the way I would have preferred, however I'd guess Molitor managed the bullpen using the "one true closer" method.

Given how many pitchers they had already used, they had to ride someone out and it happened to be Graham. Wasn't Perkins the 7th reliever used?

This is obviously not verbatim, but Paulie recently said some things to the effect that you can overthink things, and you can spend a lot of energy analyzing and preparing for something that has little chance of happening. An example of that might be a pinch hit homer, right?

 

I'm glad he looked up from the spreadsheets long enough to use his considerable intuitive capacity.

 

Who knows, maybe Graham has had some good BP sessions, maybe Perkins could have used the luxury of a day off. But whatever, luck had close to nothing to do with the outcome.

 

Just academic curiosity, but does anyone know how many games Bernier has gone between home runs?

Given how many pitchers they had already used, they had to ride someone out and it happened to be Graham. Wasn't Perkins the 7th reliever used?

Yep, used the entire pen. Watching the game, with the day off on Monday, and then again today, we were figuring that Hughes, or more likely May, were going to be called upon for long relief after Perkins pitched the 9th and/or 10th. Molitor had shown no confidence in Graham or Duensing recently, and for good reason.

This is obviously not verbatim, but Paulie recently said some things to the effect that you can overthink things, and you can spend a lot of energy analyzing and preparing for something that has little chance of happening. An example of that might be a pinch hit homer, right?

 

I'm glad he looked up from the spreadsheets long enough to use his considerable intuitive capacity.

 

Who knows, maybe Graham has had some good BP sessions, maybe Perkins could have used the luxury of a day off. But whatever, luck had close to nothing to do with the outcome.

 

Just academic curiosity, but does anyone know how many games Bernier has gone between home runs?

I can see the headlines now... Molitor uses up his prime bullpen guys- who were mostly ineffective, leaving him left with the two guys who are Really Struggling, and then later admitting that he had had some difficulty in adapting to National League rules and style of play, because in truth, he's

 

"Paul Molitor... 'Intuitive' Savant!",

 

who "knew" he was going to get lights out pitching late, and a home run from the guy who has gone nearly half a season without a long ball...

 

Nawww... I'll stick with "lucky" and I'd bet if you actually asked Paul himself, he'd agree with that.

Edited May 21, 201511 yr by jokin

Considering that Perkins faced very tough batters in his one inning of work, I am fine with the strategy.

 

If you are going to use your closer for two innings in a situation like this, you should bring him in sooner. But if you are committed to a one-inning strategy for him (a topic for another discussion), then on the road you can do it like Molly did without suffering any drawback. You'd have Blaine or Brian or JR facing that lineup for the save instead, as the game played out.

I can see the headlines now... Molitor uses up his prime bullpen guys- who were mostly ineffective, leaving him left with the two guys who are Really Struggling, and then later admitting that he had had some difficulty in adapting to National League rules and style of play, because in truth, he's"Paul Molitor... 'Intuitive' Savant!",who "knew" he was going to get lights out pitching late, and a home run from the guy who has gone nearly half a season without a long ball...Nawww... I'll stick with "lucky" and I'd bet if you actually asked Paul himself, he'd agree with that.

maybe so, but shouldn't someone other than birdwatcher have posted by now that "maybe the Twins have data that we don't"...? And that Molitor's aw shucks luck comment is all just part of the stat-driven ruse. That's often how evaluations are explained on here

 

Or maybe Molitor just saw how Graham was fresh, consistently mid 90s with his heat, and had a particularly nasty slider going, and gave him a turn through the whole order instead of just one inning. That's my bet. He definitely walks the line but I can't argue with the W-L record yet.

maybe so, but shouldn't someone other than birdwatcher have posted by now that "maybe the Twins have data that we don't"...? And that Molitor's aw shucks luck comment is all just part of the stat-driven ruse. That's often how evaluations are explained on here

 

Or maybe Molitor just saw how Graham was fresh, consistently mid 90s with his heat, and had a particularly nasty slider going, and gave him a turn through the whole order instead of just one inning. That's my bet. He definitely walks the line but I can't argue with the W-L record yet.

I like Graham alot. But to this point, Molitor has shown zero confidence in JR, and there hasn't been a recent appearance to suggest new-found confidence, and likely has been protecting Graham from having his own confidence shattered. In truth, Molitor had no one else to turn to for a multiple inning outing once he opted for Graham over Perkins.

Regarding the bullpen, Molitor definitely gambled his final dollar last night. I happen to love games like that. But Graham actually was that good last night. So in a way I can respect how Molly set aside any past doubts when he saw how well Graham was pitching, and he just let him pitch.

I like Graham alot. But to this point, Molitor has shown zero confidence in JR, and there hasn't been a recent appearance to suggest new-found confidence, and likely has been protecting Graham from having his own confidence shattered. In truth, Molitor had no one else to turn to for a multiple inning outing once he opted for Graham over Perkins.

The reason that Graham has been protected is that he's a rule 5 guy, and the Twins don't want to go through a messy process if they need to send him down. They're trying to not overexpose him.

 

I can't say I agree with that, because it limits the use they get out of a guy they're hell-bent on keeping on the roster all season.

The reason that Graham has been protected is that he's a rule 5 guy, and the Twins don't want to go through a messy process if they need to send him down. They're trying to not overexpose him.

 

I can't say I agree with that, because it limits the use they get out of a guy they're hell-bent on keeping on the roster all season.

Yep, I get all of that. And on a losing team with no expectations, like Texas with DeShields, it makes a lot of sense, but on a winning team or a surprise team like the Twins, it makes a lot more sense to complete a trade with the Braves to have the freedom to use Graham however they choose. This bullpen is shaky enough already, to not have self-imposed limits on any arm.

Edited May 21, 201511 yr by jokin

I was fine with running Graham out there for three innings since he was pitching well.  However, after Graham was done I think he should have put Perkins out there in the 12th instead of Duensing.  Let Perkins pitch 12th and 13th.  Either way it worked out, but was risky in my mind.

 

I like Graham alot. But to this point, Molitor has shown zero confidence in JR, and there hasn't been a recent appearance to suggest new-found confidence, and likely has been protecting Graham from having his own confidence shattered. In truth, Molitor had no one else to turn to for a multiple inning outing once he opted for Graham over Perkins.

 

 

But we're not privy to every "appearance" , jokin. Neil Allen and Paul Molitor are. I'm just reacting to the notion that it was all luck like you say. Paulie admitted he took a chance or two, right? So, it worked out.

 

I like his modesty, don't you? Oh, and who called him a Savant? Must've missed that.

Edited May 21, 201511 yr by birdwatcher

Okay, Graham went three innings and had nasty stuff.

 

Graham for the starting rotation!! (give me a week, it'll be "Graham is a bum and needs to go!!)

 

 

The right strategy on the road is to keep your closer available for exactly the situation last night.   Extra inning games, by definition will lead to a save situation for the visiting team - but never for a home team.   That is the one strategic advantage the visitor has in an extra inning game. 

 

Of course, for the strategy to work, particularly in a game where the Twins lost the lead late in the game with their set-up men, you have to go deeper into the pen.   Frankly, it is an ideal situation for the guys like Graham and Duensing to contribute.

 

What would not have been cool is to have Mauer hit his dinger and run Duensing out there in a role he is not accustomed to.    

 

I would never second guess this decision.   A manager needs to ask all of his guys to contribute in these games and it makes sense to save your closer for exactly that role.   It could have easily gone south last night - but Molitor did the right thing and his players stepped up.  

Edited May 21, 201511 yr by MileHighTwinsFan

That "saving your closer" bit is the exact wrong way of doing things, 50%+ of the time the closer(the teams best RP) won't see the field in a close game.

 

Molly got lucky last night, but it already bit him in the ass a week ago.

'The right strategy on the road is to keep your closer available for exactly the situation last night.'

 

Only if one is married to the idea that a 'closer' should only be used in closer situations as opposed to using your best reliever in the most stressful spot.  This is an idea that is often debated and just because that's been the way it's been done for so long doesn't mean it's the right approach.

Extra inning games, by definition will lead to a save situation for the visiting team

That's just one outcome. Another possibility - the home team scores a walk off win off a lesser pitcher.

With the best hitters in the Pirate's lineup coming to the plate in the 8th inning, it would make the most sense for Perkins to be used in that situation. Despite Boyer's performance, I don't trust him to face a struggling McCutcheon.  Let Perkins shut down the heart of the Pirate's order, then bring in Boyer to mop up against lesser hitters in the 9th.  

 

I was fine with running Graham out there for three innings since he was pitching well.  However, after Graham was done I think he should have put Perkins out there in the 12th instead of Duensing.  Let Perkins pitch 12th and 13th.  Either way it worked out, but was risky in my mind.

 

The 12th featured the 8-9-1 batters.  A utility infielder in Sean Rodriguez, Chris Stewart a back up catcher and Josh Harrison with a .289 OBP.  I wouldn't have wasted Perkins on that group.  There was hardly a more ideal time for Duensing to pitch, that is unless he was facing the 2013 Twins 8-9-1 batters.

I feel that the manager should be able to use his gut from time to time and go against the book.  And I don't care if its the old book or the new book, I prefer a manager who is not slavishly following it.