What to do with Arcia?

[Shane Wahl]

 

At some point, one or two of Vargas, Arcia, and Pinto are going to have to be traded. I hope they all succeed and the Twins can get some value in return for them.

 

This is absolutely correct and it will be two of them. For the immediate time being, Arcia comes back up and Rosario goes back down. That is obvious. It looks like the Twins like Vargas the most? I like all three players, bu there is no way to have more than one as a DH unless they are going to be serious about Pinto catching. I am more than OK with having potential starters fill out the bench, so maybe only one of them goes, but one of them must go. I am not sure who brings the most value back. 

[Steve Lein]

 

Can we get past these blanket statements.  Hunter is one of our best players, and very well could be again next year, a year we're expected to compete, unless you want to push the timetable back yet again.  No one is or should be off limits on a team that has lost 90 games in 4 straight years. 

 

Agreed. People seem to forget that if Hunter was on the team last year, a team that also scored a lot of runs, he would have had the highest OPS on the team for qualified hitters.

[Linus]

 

Giving up on Arcia would be like giving up on David Ortiz or Carlos Gomez. Give him more time and he will mature and start hitting more consistently. He's not going to be a good defender, but his bat is going to be borderline elite eventually. Let's not trade him and have another team unearth his true potential.

Nobody here is suggesting that we give up on Arcia.  I would not trade any of them until they all have time to progress and we can see what we have a little more clearly.  I guess that it my concern, I don't see him developing anything other than a home run swing right now and that is worrisome for his long term success.  If his bat is going to be "borderline elite" he is going to have to make substantial change and progress mightily, which he is currently not doing which brings us back to the reason I started the thread. 

[blairpaul715]

Maybe it is his personality, but Arcia grates me a bit with his nonchalance, when he missed that flyball , i think against Detroit in a tie game, it turned the game around, and it didnt seem to bother him(altho it probably did).........like Hicks, maybe if he is sent down(for a short time), he will get the message he needs to play hard ALL the time and that he is not good enough defensively to just show up and get the job. Tough love like they did with Hicks

[jimbo92107]

"He hasn't improved much since his original call up either at the plate or in the field."

 

I disagree on his hitting. Oswaldo Arcia has shown marked progress in toning down his all-or-nothing swing to help generate RBI. Clearly he has listened to Bruno and Molitor on the importance of keeping a rally going.

 

That said, Arcia appears to see himself as a big home run hitter, not as an all-around baseball player. As more prospects near fruition, Arcia is going to be forced out by better rounded players like Rosario, Hicks, Buxton, etc. Arcia can't be a fourth outfielder, he's not good enough with his glove. He can't force out Vargas as a DH, Vargas is a better hitter, a switch hitter, and a decent 1st baseman. The only way Arcia sticks with the Twins is if he starts hitting at an All-Star level, because his other tools are below average, other than his arm. He does have a very good arm.

 

Arcia may eventually develop into an adequate corner outfielder, but the Twins have better fielders coming up within this year. I don't see how he remains with the Twins much longer.

[GP830]

Serious question- When players such as Arcia, or Pinto struggle defensively at their every day positions (OF, and C respectively), why aren't they given reps at 1B? Obviously, it isn't easy to just slide in to that position, but wouldn't it improve trade value and give the player another chance to succeed either here, or in another organization?

 

 

 

[twinsnorth49]

 

Serious question- When players such as Arcia, or Pinto struggle defensively at their every day positions (OF, and C respectively), why aren't they given reps at 1B? Obviously, it isn't easy to just slide in to that position, but wouldn't it improve trade value and give the player another chance to succeed either here, or in another organization?

I guess the main thing preventing that is the pesky little problem called Joe Mauer.

[curt1965]

After Hicks was called up last night, I was contemplating this very issue. What happens, in the best case scenario, if all these prospects turn out to be very good or elite? Who stays and who goes? What positions are we talking about? When trying to visualize our lineup in 2-3 years, I realized there is only one position we know for sure-1B- with Joe Mauer.

I am a Mauer fan, and cannot quite understand the intense feelings many fans have for him, and I am not alluding to positive feelings. I think he has 3(?) years left with his no-trade contract. Watching Mauer hit when he is in the middle of a hot streak is a true delight, and I hope that isn't a thing of the past, but freeing up that position would not only help fit in one of those prospects (Vargas, ABW3, Sano?), but free up some money for pitching. Just sayin.......

(Must have been on the same wavelength as previous poster!)

[notoriousgod71]

 

I agree, demoting Arcia at this point is a beyond absurd notion. It's so ludicrous that I'm not even worried the Twins will do it.

 

That's exactly why I'm afraid they'll do it.

[Mike Sixel]

It rarely works that a team has too much talent......how about one guy comes up and is elite before we worry too much about 4 or 5 being that.

[COtwin]

Exactly MWM.  We are arguing about things that might not even come to pass.  There is no logjam yet, and we don't know nearly enough yet to make any long term decisions.  Arcia could turn into a monster, or he could be a big flop, way to early to tell.  

 

As far as trading any of Vargas, Pinto, or Arcia.  We would be selling low.  Massively stupid.  That is the same thinking that says we should DFA Schafer instead of DLing him.  I think Schafer is a waste of a 25 man slot, but he is better than having no other options, so you don't cut him.  The fact that we might have to trade away a potential solid hitter because we have no space for them drives me nuts, when I think about Mauer not being worth his pay at first base.  

 

A lot of these discussions are based on the fact that Buxton doesn't need to be sent down after he comes up.  What if he struggles?  We are a long ways from having to much talent on the ML roster.

 

I think we also need to be careful when making statements about peoples attitudes and work ethics.  We don't actually know much about any of these guys attitudes or work ethics, or coach ability.  Hicks is a perfect example.  I have seen way more posters here talking about his poor attitude, what are we actually basing that on?  A few Gardy comments (I stopped trusting his assessments a long time ago)?  Our perceptions of situations we don't completely understand?  Bert's grumbling and Judegements? It is amazing how our own (other peoples) comments become the basis for our assessments.  I want to hear from TR or Paul what they think, if we are going to make judgements about attitude or character.

Just a thought.

[twinsnorth49]

 

It rarely works that a team has too much talent......how about one guy comes up and is elite before we worry too much about 4 or 5 being that.

Wait...what? We can't talk about endless hypothetical situations that are most likely to only happen every time the earths shifts off it's axis?

 

Well damn, I got nothing then.

[Rosterman]

A nice problem to have. The deciding factor will be where his head ends up, and the price he commands. I can live with Arcia being a DH. I can live with Vargas being a bench bat and backup at first base. I can live with an outfield of Buston, Hicks, Rosario. I'm not sure where Kepler fits in. Or if Sano will be in the outfield. If not at third for Sano, then who. We also have Walker in the wings. Can Pinto catch, or catch as well as the guys up here now? If this new crew meshes at the same time, we got a lot of balls flying out of the park, plus some nice choices at second and short to carry us the next half-decade fer sure.

 

But they all have to mesh.

 

It ain;t fun being a general manager.

 

At the worst, Arcia proves to be a nice trade chip before someone discovers he can't play the outfield and isn't really the second coming of David Ortiz! But can he play for 10-12 more years, especially if he is a solid DH?

[Andrew]

A team with a short right field porch *cough* Texas Rangers *cough* would love to have Arcia

[Blackjack]

 

Can we get past these blanket statements. 

 

 

What do you mean, 'blanket statement'.  I just stated I don't want Hunter on the team next year. We have enough young outfielders that should be ready and need playing time.
 

[Old Twins Cap]

Arcia, for a kid his age, is incredibly muscle-bound.  He looks like he is moving against incredible resistance at all times.  The odds that he ends up being a regular on the DL are extremely high. 

 

And, IMHO, his body language on the field is terrible.  It's always about him and his performance, good or bad, and not about the team.  He's fiery, which is good, but he also is given to sulking after a strike out or a particularly bad plate appearance.

 

I like him, in general, but too often he goes off in his own direction.

 

I'll take a kid like Santana, who keeps his chin up and works, day in, day out.  Not too high, not too low.

[Jham]

 

What do you mean, 'blanket statement'.  I just stated I don't want Hunter on the team next year. We have enough young outfielders that should be ready and need playing time.
 

 

By "blanket statements" I mean speaking in absolutes. If the plan is to compete in 2016, then we need to consider whether a 40 year old Hunter is a better player than a rookie Rosario, or a Hicks/ Arcia.  You've offered one solution: trade Hunter or let him walk and replace him internally.  Hunter will bring back nothing if he walks and probably a very modest return if traded.  On the other hand, a young promising major league player like Arcia or Rosario might yield significantly more in return.  

 

If Hunter produced at the level he has so far this year, and another team offered a few meaningful prospects and a bull pen arm for Rosario, wouldn't you consider that?  We could potentially make our team better in the short, and long term.  All options should be considered.  Hence my comment of "no blanket statements".  

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

If the Twins sign Hunter in 2016, I'm packing it in and starting a Brewers site.

 

Only somewhat joking.

[Vanimal46]

The bat potential is obviously there with Arcia, and he should be able to hit 30+ HRs in a full season. However, I really do not want to see him in the field anymore. He's become a head case out there missing routine pop ups, and making Josh Willingham look like a gold glove caliber OF compared to him. If they want his bat in the lineup, he should be a DH only.

[COtwin]

He needs repetitions at the plate and in the outfield.  His fielding can and probably will improve.  Same goes for at the plate.  He has the AB's of slightly over one full season.  We need to have patience with these guys.  We need a full roster of good players, not a couple of superstars.  Way to early to be making permanent decisions about his offense or defense.   I have actually seen some improvement at the plate and he can get more solid in the OF.

[twinsnorth49]

 

He needs repetitions at the plate and in the outfield.  His fielding can and probably will improve.  Same goes for at the plate.  He has the AB's of slightly over one full season.  We need to have patience with these guys.  We need a full roster of good players, not a couple of superstars.  Way to early to be making permanent decisions about his offense or defense.   I have actually seen some improvement at the plate and he can get more solid in the OF.

I'm honestly not sure he' smart enough to become a better outfielder. I don't think even just cutting out the insanely stupid things he does out there gets him back to baseline.  Not trying to be cruel, just don't see it, and I like the guy, a lot.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I'm honestly not sure he' smart enough to become a better outfielder. I don't think even just cutting out the insanely stupid things he does out there gets him back to baseline.  Not trying to be cruel, just don't see it, and I like the guy, a lot.

 

I think most defensive ability that guys possess is a god-given baseline that is really hard to budge.  You either got it, or you don't.  Arcia definitely doesn't have it.

[Hrbowski]

When Arcia returns he should be an everyday starter in left, and have Hicks/Rosario play in center. Schafer and Bernier will be cut for when Arcia and Robinson return.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I think most defensive ability that guys possess is a god-given baseline that is really hard to budge.  You either got it, or you don't.  Arcia definitely doesn't have it.

Don't forget how awful Plouffe was in the field. I also seriously doubt something will suddenly click for Arcia and make him competent in the field, but it can happen.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Don't forget how awful Plouffe was in the field. I also seriously doubt something will suddenly click for Arcia and make him competent in the field, but it can happen.

 

I think Plouffe's problem was the angle he had to throw from at SS.  But you bring up a good point, you can help an infielder get better with his hands.  I should've been more specific talking about outfielders.

[USAFChief]

Plouffe was a good enough infielder to stay at SS through the minors. It's really not all that surprising that he turn into a competent third baseman.

[KGB]

 

If the Twins sign Hunter in 2016, I'm packing it in and starting a Brewers site.

 

Only somewhat joking.

So far this year, Hunter & Plouffe are the best hitters on the Twins.  If he keeps hitting, no reason to push him out the door for hitters worst them him.

 

[terencemann]

 

When Arcia returns he should be an everyday starter in left, and have Hicks/Rosario play in center. Schafer and Bernier will be cut for when Arcia and Robinson return.

I'm all for this, for now. Schafer is the kind of player who will get hot for 3 weeks and then you have to waive him just to get the manager to stop using him becuase they won't realize he's still Jordan Schafer.

[John Kelsey]

Rosario is making it a pretty easy decision to send him down when Arcia comes back. 

[Danchat]

 

When Arcia returns he should be an everyday starter in left, and have Hicks/Rosario play in center. Schafer and Bernier will be cut for when Arcia and Robinson return.

I'm pretty sure Rosario will be going down to AAA when Arcia comes back. He needs more time to play CF in AAA and Hicks isn't there to block him anymore.