Article: Defenseless: How Can The Twins Improve In The Field?

[Platoon]

I would trade Hunter last week, but if I remember correctly he has a no trade contract. While we always wonder why the Twins wanted him, the other question is why did he sign here, to this forsaken operation? Guaranteed playing time? RF guaranteed? WARM FUZZY FEELINGS FOR THE FANS. I just don't think money was the determining factor.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I would trade Hunter last week, but if I remember correctly he has a no trade contract. While we always wonder why the Twins wanted him, the other question is why did he sign here, to this forsaken operation? Guaranteed playing time? RF guaranteed? WARM FUZZY FEELINGS FOR THE FANS. I just don't think money was the determining factor.

 

Money, no one else was going to pay him close that money. Not close.*

 

*see my sig.....

[Trevor0333]

It's called poor 40 man roster construction for the 3rd year in a row.

 

So much so that it makes the actual production level of the team much lower than the talent it holds.

[tobi0040]

 

Baseball America has some interesting historical ratings.

 

Trevor Plouffe:

ORGANIZATION BEST TOOLS

Rated Best Defensive Infielder in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2004 season
Rated Best Defensive Infielder in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2005 season

 

Aaron Hicks:

ORGANIZATION BEST TOOLS

Rated Best Athlete in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2008 season
Rated Best Defensive OF in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2008 season
Rated Best Outfield Arm in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2008 season
Rated Best Strike Zone Discipline in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2008 season
Rated Best Athlete in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2009 season
Rated Best Defensive OF in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2009 season
Rated Best Outfield Arm in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2009 season
Rated Best Strike Zone Discipline in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2009 season
Rated Best Strike Zone Discipline in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2010 season
Rated Best Defensive OF in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2010 season
Rated Best Outfield Arm in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2010 season
Rated Best Defensive OF in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2011 season
Rated Best Outfield Arm in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2011 season
Rated Best Defensive OF in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2012 season
Rated Best Outfield Arm in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2012 season
Rated Best Strike Zone Discipline in the Minnesota Twins system after the 2012 season

 

LEAGUE BEST TOOLS
Rated Best Outfield Arm in the Midwest League in 2010
Rated Best Outfield Arm in the Florida State League in 2011

 

Plouffe's defensive rep was probably never very strong (best of a weak group?) and evaporated fairly quickly (he was spending time off of SS as early as 2006, in high-A ball, only his second full season as a pro).

 

Hicks could still be a special case, for both defensive and offensive evaluation (not to mention transition/adjustment to MLB).

 

I have always thought the best ____ in system rankings by BA were always heavily skewed towards the top prospects.

 

I don't know who they had as the best INF last year, but my understanding is our best infielder is Vielma.  But he can't hit a lick and therefore is not a prospect. So they probably gave the title to someone like Polanco or Gordon.

[tobi0040]

 

Money, no one else was going to pay him close that money. Not close.*

 

*see my sig.....

 

That isn't true.  We just need to find another team that needs some mentoring.

[Loosey]

Not sure if it has been mentioned here or not, but when this site first started 3 or 4 yeas ago it was about the time Mauer had Bilateral leg weakness or whatever it was called.  One of the options that got brought up and then shot down by many was moving Mauer to one of the corner outfield spots.  The argument against it was he is paid $23 million because he is the best catcher in the game and he loses his value if you play him in the outfield since he doesn't hit for power like you would want a corner outfielder to.  Well, Mauer is now playing 1st base a more traditional power hitting spot and he still doesn't hit for power, so why not move him to the outfield?  One comparison made a few years ago was his athletic ability was that of a Matt Holliday in the outfield.  Moving Mauer out there opens up some options: Perhaps Plouffe can play 1st and Escobar 3rd?  Maybe Vargas can play some 1st and Arcia more DH.  This can even prepare the team for if/when Sano comes up at some point.  It seems this shouldn't be that far out of the realm of possibilities.

[tobi0040]

 

Not sure if it has been mentioned here or not, but when this site first started 3 or 4 yeas ago it was about the time Mauer had Bilateral leg weakness or whatever it was called.  One of the options that got brought up and then shot down by many was moving Mauer to one of the corner outfield spots.  The argument against it was he is paid $23 million because he is the best catcher in the game and he loses his value if you play him in the outfield since he doesn't hit for power like you would want a corner outfielder to.  Well, Mauer is now playing 1st base a more traditional power hitting spot and he still doesn't hit for power, so why not move him to the outfield?  One comparison made a few years ago was his athletic ability was that of a Matt Holliday in the outfield.  Moving Mauer out there opens up some options: Perhaps Plouffe can play 1st and Escobar 3rd?  Maybe Vargas can play some 1st and Arcia more DH.  This can even prepare the team for if/when Sano comes up at some point.  It seems this shouldn't be that far out of the realm of possibilities.

 

I think a look in LF would make sense, but it is unlikely.  While you have a point about Mauer and 1B....we aren't really blocking anyone at AAA that would likely outhit Mauer.

 

It could end up being Sano or Plouffe that ends up in LF....if Rosario does not pan out.

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Mauer may not be blocking anyone at AAA but didn't Vargas come up as a 1B? You can't help but wonder what a valuable piece Vargas would be in a few years with regular playing time at first. 'Little Papi' as Ortiz calls him.

[jimmer]

 

Mauer may not be blocking anyone at AAA but didn't Vargas come up as a 1B? You can't help but wonder what a valuable piece Vargas would be in a few years with regular playing time at first. 'Little Papi' as Ortiz calls him.

Ortiz is an ego-maniac so of course he refers to Vargas as Little Papi.  To Papi, the game is all about Papi.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I have always thought the best ____ in system rankings by BA were always heavily skewed towards the top prospects.

 

I don't know who they had as the best INF last year, but my understanding is our best infielder is Vielma.  But he can't hit a lick and therefore is not a prospect. So they probably gave the title to someone like Polanco or Gordon.

Probably true, which is why Plouffe got the distinction the year he was drafted and his second year.  But I think it is notable that he received no such distinctions from BA after that.

 

I don't think the distinctions for Hicks are purely on his prospect status or reputation, though.

[CesarTovar]

Well, it would probably help to go position by position, starting with the pitchers.  Better strikeout rates likely equates to better defensive numbers.  So, get more pitchers who can get more strikeouts.  Plenty of those in the minors, especially after reviewing a top 30 prospect season review on another site.  Catcher needs to throw out more (any?) would be base stealers.  That will likely help overall defensive numbers.  First base, think about giving Mauer some time in left and Vargas (or Arcia or Hunter) some time at first.  Second base is fine.  Shortstop, give Danny S. more time to refine and Esco is good when needed.  Third base is fine for now.  Outfield, ugh.  But any discussion should start with who projects as starters in 2016, not now.  Buxton, Rosario, Hicks, Adam Walker, Arcia all in the discussion, as is possibly Plouffe (and Mauer?).  To help NOW (and lord knows they need help) think about a trade or waiver signing of any of those previously mentioned.  Give Hicks significant time in center.  Robinson is an adequate backup at any of the outfield spots.  Move Arcia to right, ful time.  Put Hunter in left 1-2 days a week (can't be worse than what we've seen so far and over the past couple of years) and DH 4-5 days a week.  Get rid of retreads (looking at you, Nunez) that don't help at all.  Sure, Vargas won't get full time play in this scenerio but he would get starts a couple of days a week at DH/1B combined and he would be a useful late inning bench bat.  Then again, i probably don't know what i am talking about and should just trust Molitor/Ryan to do what is best for the team going forward.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Baseball America's best defensive infielder after each season:

 

2004: Plouffe

2005: Plouffe

2006: Casilla

2007: Romero

2008: Tolbert

2009: Polanco

2010: Polanco

2011: Dozier

2012: Michael

2013: Santana

 

They seem to have quit such rankings at that point, or maybe they are behind a paywall (although they still do best in league stuff?).

Edited April 22, 2015 by spycake

[Otto von Ballpark]

Outfielders

 

2004-2006: Span

2007: Pridie

2008-2012: Hicks

2013: Buxton

[Eephus]

 

I would love to disagree on this topic because it is really, really hard to watch for the time being.  But unfortunately where the franchise is right now, I think they have to wait.

 

In 2-4 months, a lot of this gets sorted out and we are not winning the world series this year anyway.

 

One of the main things that helps is I doubt both Arcia and Vargas prove to be MLB caliber DH and LF.  If one gets sent down, then the other becomes the DH and it opens up some better defensive options.  Given they are both young, we need more reps to see which one.  You would hate to choose before you need to. 

 

Buxton at some point fixes CF, but he has a ton of rust to shake off first.  No need to stunt his development to get better CF play for a short period of time.  And if LF opens up, it may be Hicks vs. Rosario and we need time to pick who.   Or if Sano sticks at 3B, can Plouffe play there?  Has to be an upgrade over Arcia.  But Sano has rust to shake off too.

 

The only thing I could really get behind right now is swapping Hunter for Arcia.  If Arcia has a future in the OF, it is in right IMO.  So why not keep him there.  From what I have seen, a 39 year old Hunter is at least a wash with Arcia.

My hope is that 4 months (not this month, because this team is going nowhere) from now we have a legit feeling that the team is poised (within 1 or 2 years) to become very competitive for a long time. For this to happen we need our prospects to steadily progress (or shake the dust off) and be either dominating the minors or already called up (because they were dominating in the minors). 

[mikelink45]

Hicks is the only answer.  So what if he failed the last two years - it is not the first time that has happened to a player.  Get him in there and let him play center and bat 9th.  Of course with the Twins batting averages - we have Mauer as our leading hitter with a .269 average (ESPN stats) Trevor Plouffe and Hunter .234.  Suzuki .216 and the rest 200 or less and we are worried that Hicks might not hit when he gets up here!  Anyone that can catch a ball would be refreshing.  Hicks is batting 250. (Rochester website)

 

Of course there is Pinto who is batting 314 

 

And do not trade.  We want Buxton up by July and anyone TR trades for stays and blocks - see the pitching staff.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Plouffe's defensive rep was probably never very strong (best of a weak group?) and evaporated fairly quickly (he was spending time off of SS as early as 2006, in high-A ball, only his second full season as a pro).

 

Hicks could still be a special case, for both defensive and offensive evaluation (not to mention transition/adjustment to MLB).

 

My working theory is that most of the hype of minor league defensive prowess comes from national scouts and not so much the people working directly every day with the players.  So a guy like Hicks gets almost a default boost based on his prospect status and then some national scout that seems him 5-10 games the whole season tries to take that small sample size and make generalizations based on it.  Other than arm strength I'm just not sure how that is a reliable opinion.

 

That doesn't mean the opinions aren't worth reading or considering, but it damn sure means to keep them in context.  Remember, before Delmon Young hit a big league field there was talk of him being a CF option who would move to a corner and become elite.  We all saw how that turned out.

 

I don't form a good opinion of a player's defense by eye test without a considerable sample size just like the stats, I wouldn't trust even the well-trained eye of a scout to be all that much better in that narrow of a viewing period.

[jokin]

 

Hicks is the only answer. 

 

Of course there is Pinto who is batting 314 

 

And do not trade.  We want Buxton up by July and anyone TR trades for stays and blocks - see the pitching staff.

 

Acquiring Scott Van Slyke (in LF) and/or Peter Bourjos (first CF, then 4th OF) wouldn't block anyone. (Arcia can either DH or go to RF, with Hunter going to DH in the first scenario, one and/or both of the current CFers would be DFA'd in the second scenario) 

 

Picking up a legit CF defender via waiver claim wouldn't block anyone.  And HIcks is not a good CF defender, period (with the poor routes and reads he takes, I'm not certain if he is a defensive upgrade over the current CFers).

Edited April 22, 2015 by jokin

[MileHighTwinsFan]

 

 

 

Hicks is currently at .250/.340/.420.  Granted it is only 11 games, but the slugging is encouraging.  One HR, two 3B, and a double to go along with 7 singles.

 

Big day today -  3 for 5, 2 doubles, single and a walk. Now hitting .286.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

Nothing at all wrong with Mauer's defense.  He certainly doesn't belong in that group of defensive hacks.

 

Fine. Pettition the league so Arcia, Hunter and Vargas can all DH then.

[jokin]

 

Big day today -  3 for 5, 2 doubles, single and a walk. Now hitting .286.

 

 

OPS is now .865.  Encouragingly, the two doubles and the BB were against RHP (but less encouraging when looking at the bigger picture, going into today, his OPS vs. RHP was still only a paltry .567 in 27 PAs.... while his splits in Rochester and New Britain in 2014 were nearly identical).  All that said, it seems clear if Hicks could maintain something close to this production level, he will be called up sooner rather than later, likely in favor of Schafer.  But I've yet to be presented with evidence that Hicks has made the case that he would be a significant defensive upgrade.

[USAFChief]

My opinion hasn't changed since ST started... the best of a bad set of options was to start with Hicks in CF again this year. There is still a chance that option works out, meanwhile he's probably not any worse than the current options. Plus, I doubt the current CF options come with much if any chance at success, short or long term.

[Trevor0333]

I never understood the Arcia in LF while Hutner takes RF for 1 year unless they are planning down the road for Arcia/Buxton/Hicks OF combo.

 

I mentioned this earlier as well but if the 40 man roster wasn't contructed so poorly they could easily minimize the poor defense with platoons and resting players at the right times.

 

 

 

 

[DocBauer]

How to improve the defense?

 

A) One of those giant "we're #1" foam fingers to function as a glove for Arcia.

 

A seeing-eye greyhound in CF to help Schafer track balls. (It would help if the dog could hit a little too)

 

C) An ACME series 4, turbo powered scooter for Hunter. Optional grenade launcher might be considered a luxury, but if it works in the budget, why not splurge.

[Trevor0333]

Well according to this post Nebraska_Omaha will have a Taco launcher at their games.

http://wildxtra.com/topic/1768-nebraska-omaha-will-have-a-taco-cannon-at-new-arena/

 

Can the Twins use this to help Arcia improve his range shagging Taco's in the OF?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Not sure if it has been mentioned here or not, but when this site first started 3 or 4 yeas ago it was about the time Mauer had Bilateral leg weakness or whatever it was called.  One of the options that got brought up and then shot down by many was moving Mauer to one of the corner outfield spots.  The argument against it was he is paid $23 million because he is the best catcher in the game and he loses his value if you play him in the outfield since he doesn't hit for power like you would want a corner outfielder to.  Well, Mauer is now playing 1st base a more traditional power hitting spot and he still doesn't hit for power, so why not move him to the outfield?  One comparison made a few years ago was his athletic ability was that of a Matt Holliday in the outfield.  Moving Mauer out there opens up some options: Perhaps Plouffe can play 1st and Escobar 3rd?  Maybe Vargas can play some 1st and Arcia more DH.  This can even prepare the team for if/when Sano comes up at some point.  It seems this shouldn't be that far out of the realm of possibilities.

how does moving Mauer to the outfield help the outfield? He's never shown the ability to play the outfield, and history of leg issues may indicate the outfield may not be a good choice since every play you are involved includes running. Just because you are subtracting a poor player from the field does it mean you are improving. Also, It would hurt the infield as he is a better first baseman than any of the other options, and Plouffe is a good to very good third baseman.

 

Escobar would be a step up with the glove at SS, but a step down with range and arm, I think sticking with Santana at short in 2015, could make for a very good SS of the future if things go well.

 

Since the minor league options aren't ready, and are still just prospects, trading Arcia or Vargas for a good fielding and decent hitting Left Fielder might be the best stop gap. Hunter would be my preference to go, but he's worth nothing and has a no trade clause, as if 10 mil wasn't enough to deter a trade.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

My opinion hasn't changed since ST started... the best of a bad set of options was to start with Hicks in CF again this year. There is still a chance that option works out, meanwhile he's probably not any worse than the current options. Plus, I doubt the current CF options come with much if any chance at success, short or long term.

i was on the Hicks needs to be in AAA for his development bandwagon (John Bonnes side), now I'm moving to the "best case scenario is platoon half or 4th outfielder so you might as well start now (Aaron Gleeman side). But there's still two horrible outfielders in Left and Right, even Byron "newly anointed baby Jesus" Buxton can't cover foul pole to foul pole. You need to have at least two competent fielders in the outfield.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Well according to this post Nebraska_Omaha will have a Taco launcher at their games.

http://wildxtra.com/topic/1768-nebraska-omaha-will-have-a-taco-cannon-at-new-arena/

 

Can the Twins use this to help Arcia improve his range shagging Taco's in the OF?

i feel really guilty for liking this

[DocBauer]

On a serious note or two...

 

Unless the Twins plan for Arcia to plant himself permanently in LF, the move of him, a career RF who actually showed improvement last season, to LF was not only misguided...but...sorry...it was stupid. Hunter is signed for 1 season. One. The veteran, Hunter, needs to make the move to LF, and should have right away. Hopefully, it's not too late.

 

Hicks could be promoted up I guess. But if we ever really want to see if he can cut it, it's time to be fair to not only him, but the Twins themselves in regard to any potential value and just let him stay at Rochester, rebuild confidence and approach and work on that new leg kick of his.

 

There's a lot of ways to make a team and improve a team. I am leaving that poor dead horse carcass to push up daisies in peace and talk about the NOW instead of mistakes of the off season. The Twins have one of the absolute best, top farm systems in all of baseball. And hey, I'd like to keep every single prospect as long as I can too. But to not make a move as obvious as acquiring help for the team in CF is downright disrespectful and insulting to the members of the team as well as the fans.

 

Trading a solid prospect or two, in a farm system this deep, does not diminish your talent level or your future. And nobody is saying, or expects, the team to trade for a big time, expensive all star and unload 4 of their top 20 prospects. We're talking about a solid prospect or two for a solid ML ballplayer who can play CF without embarrassment, and then can assume a 4th OF role when Buxton is ready. Acquiring this solid, ML caliber CF would in no way block Buxton when ready. And no matter how much we want it to happen, the odds of Buxton being ready for the majors two months from now is just not realistic.

 

So you do nothing and tell your team, (especially your pitching staff) and your fans; "Tough. Deal with it. We've totally screwed up this key position for a couple years now but, so what. Eventually we'll get better."

 

Make the move. There are solid and interesting options listed here already. I'm sure there are others.

 

The infield is OK. You absolutely do not give up on the talented Santana at this point. But you continue to work in the deserving Escobar as well.

[jorgenswest]

It is too early.

 

Once they decide to send Hicks down, they need to give him a long enough stretch in AAA. The next time they call him up needs to be the last time.

 

They likely poorly evaluated Schafer's skills when they took him to arbitration. Give him 120 PAs and assess.

 

Stubbs is not a good solution. He is now a below average defender in CF. He is past his prime seasons. His numbers were home fueled in 2014. Trading for him based on that performance would be like signing a decline phase reliever with Petco fueled numbers.

 

The Twins already have a guy that can compete with his road 211/283/333 and struggle against right handed pitching. Give him some more time in AAA.

[bird]

 

How to improve the defense?

A) One of those giant "we're #1" foam fingers to function as a glove for Arcia.

A seeing-eye greyhound in CF to help Schafer track balls. (It would help if the dog could hit a little too)

C) An ACME series 4, turbo powered scooter for Hunter. Optional grenade launcher might be considered a luxury, but if it works in the budget, why not splurge.

 

Torii's scooter would be covered by his Medicare Senior Plan.