2015 Minor League Transactions

[Shane Wahl]

Anyway, Seth, what is the Barrie story?

 

Haha.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Anyway, Seth, what is the Barrie story?

 

Haha.

 

I don't know any story, but he was released... Talked to him before it came out and he was quite disappointed. Figured he'd get at least a little bit of a chance first. 

 

Big guy. Worked out. Power potential. Slow bat. Could resurface somewhere. 

[jokin]

 

I understand the disappointment from a fan's perspective in not seeing Burdi dominate like he did last year.  I'm disappointed.  However, I fail to see any evidence that Burdi's career or preparation is somehow being mismanaged.  The analysis can't be simply based on results.

 

It sounds to me that the Twins have a perfectly reasonable plan.  Burdi has been given some exact pieces of his game to work on.  I get the impression that the Twins have been urging this from Burdi for awhile.  Let him work on tinkering where he is under less pressure and more likely to succeed with a new approach.  Agree or disagree with the approach all you want, but there's a plan there, and I don't think you can say that he's automatically say he's been mismanaged.  A, AA, He'll be fast tracked when he shows he's ready

Was it really "perfectly reasonable" a year ago to have him strike out nearly 50% of the clearly overmatched hitters he faced over his entire 2014 tenure?

 

I don't think anyone is saying that there isn't a plan there.  But one year after his pro debut, it's hard to argue that it's been a good plan, in point of fact, it's been a failed plan thus far.  Jake Reed was on a similar plan, with similar bad second-year results.  

 

And going back specifically to Burdi, being placed to start out your pro career at a performance level commensurate with your current abilities, which one year ago was A+--> and then moving as quickly to AA as performance would merit, would NOT HAVE BEEN "fast-tracking."

 

As far as the plan going forward, if he's striking out at a 50% clip, even more overmatched hitters in the major league sized parks in the FSL, how does that address the areas of concern expressed by Radcliff:

 

 

 

Now Burdi must figure things out amid the first minor crisis of his pro career.
“You need to read the swing, know the hitter, figure out pitchability,” Radcliff said. “It’s all about mentally adjusting. He’s been a thrower his whole life. He’s blessed to throw hard. That’s great. Now you have to get guys out.”
Hard, harder, hardest isn’t always the answer.
“These guys (at AA) can hit velocity,” Radcliff said. “That doesn’t scare anybody. Once you get up to a certain level, you need to figure some things out. That’s where he’s at.”

 

But AA is currently not where Burdi is at.  And how do you "figure some (of those) things out" at a lower level?  Hopefully, this demotion is just for a couple weeks, and then the real plan is enacted back at his appropriate competitive level.

[Jham]

 

 

But AA is currently not where Burdi is at.  And how do you "figure some (of those) things out" at a lower level?  Hopefully, this demotion is just for a couple weeks, and then the real plan is enacted back at his appropriate competitive level.

 

I'm not saying everything has gone according to plan.  I just think it's a big jump to say the reason things haven't gone according to plan is that the player was mismanaged.  Perhaps the Twins saw past the results in keeping Burdi down last year.  They say the biggest jump in talent comes between A and AA.  If the Twins tried to get Burdi to work on mixing his pitches and hitting his spots, and he wouldn't, and this year he paid the price, then a demotion makes sense.  Every player responds to different motivators.  Some need the carrot, some need the stick.  Some are fueled by success, others by failure.  Big time relievers are constantly under pressure and necessarily have to bounce back from failure.  Hopefully this kid responds.  

If anything, it appears we moved him up too soon and should have started him in A ball again.  You can imagine how that would have gone over.
 

[jokin]

 

I'm not saying everything has gone according to plan.  I just think it's a big jump to say the reason things haven't gone according to plan is that the player was mismanaged.  Perhaps the Twins saw past the results in keeping Burdi down last year.  They say the biggest jump in talent comes between A and AA.  If the Twins tried to get Burdi to work on mixing his pitches and hitting his spots, and he wouldn't, and this year he paid the price, then a demotion makes sense.  Every player responds to different motivators.  Some need the carrot, some need the stick.  Some are fueled by success, others by failure.  Big time relievers are constantly under pressure and necessarily have to bounce back from failure.  Hopefully this kid responds.  

If anything, it appears we moved him up too soon and should have started him in A ball again.  You can imagine how that would have gone over.
 

 

Valid and fair points,  I still would have found out where his Peter Principle limit- evidently AA- was last year, and forced that whole "carrot-stick" and "responding" process to already have been underway for a year now and not lost this year of development.  And if all you say is true, Radcliff's comments then sound more like they're directed at Burdi, in "See, I told you so" fashion- which certainly accomplishes little and sounds almost defensive in nature.  I've still gotta think it's done quite differently in other orgs.

 

The problem, and hole in your theory is, the Twins don't have ANY recent history of a general working plan for prospect bullpen arms, of developmental success stories of ultimately bringing up strike out pitchers to the major league level (the last being Perkins, and only after failing as both a starter and nearly finding his way out of the organization)... and they also failed miserably at  getting their collective staff K/9 rates- for either starters or relievers- to even the median league level.  In truth, the Twins Team K/9 for RPs has been last in 4 of the last 5 years.  And this has been systemic, the combined RP stats from 2004-15- that's going on TWELVE years- also has the Twins last in K/9.

[Shane Wahl]

Lost in this Burdi business is the fact that Brandon Peterson moved up to Chatty and has continued to be lights out.

[Jham]

 

 

The problem, and hole in your theory is, the Twins don't have ANY recent history of a general working plan for prospect bullpen arms, of developmental success stories of ultimately bringing up strike out pitchers to the major league level (the last being Perkins, and only after failing as both a starter and nearly finding his way out of the organization)... and they also failed miserably at  getting their collective staff K/9 rates- for either starters or relievers- to even the median league level.  In truth, the Twins Team K/9 for RPs has been last in 4 of the last 5 years.  And this has been systemic, the combined RP stats from 2004-15- that's going on TWELVE years- also has the Twins last in K/9.

I guess I don't see how the Twins could have handled the situation differently and definitely ended up with a better outcome...  But I'll definitely agree that the Twins have scrapped a bull pen together for decades, usually with good results.  Still, our best reliever, like many top relievers, was a mediocre starter, in this case, homegrown.  Perk was up and down a few times, took things personally, got in and out of the dog house on a number of occasions, finally found himself and now he's a perennial all-star.  Twins management, or Perk finally maturing?  Speaking of mediocre starters, we have some.  Now which one is Wade Davis...?  
 

[nicksaviking]

I understand the disappointment from a fan's perspective in not seeing Burdi dominate like he did last year.  I'm disappointed.  However, I fail to see any evidence that Burdi's career or preparation is somehow being mismanaged.  The analysis can't be simply based on results.

How about this:

 

 

 

Aside from the stirrups that isn't the same pitcher. That's more than tinkering, that's a freakin metamorphosis.

 

Not acceptable. It wasn't broke, it shouldn't have been fixed. Who cares if he wasn't technically sound and aesthetically pleasing, he is a relief pitcher who didn't have control issues in college. Tinker away if his way didn't work, but there was no reason to assume it wouldn't unless one is of the mind that the Twins homogenous way of creating a pitcher is the only way that works.

[jokin]

 

Lost in this Burdi business is the fact that Brandon Peterson moved up to Chatty and has continued to be lights out.

 

 

Great point, and curious that neither the Twins or the prospect analysts have granted him high prospect status.  All he has done is strike people out at a rate averaging 38% at all levels.  This year in the FSL, he led all pitchers over 30 IP in BA, ERA and FIP.  And he was 2nd in K/9 and K%.  It will be interesting to see if he maintains those types of numbers over the next two levels and eventually is given a major league chance to be this type of pitcher down the road.  As of right now... he has Anthony Slama written all over him.

[jokin]

 

I guess I don't see how the Twins could have handled the situation differently and definitely ended up with a better outcome...  But I'll definitely agree that the Twins have scrapped a bull pen together for decades, usually with good results. 
 

 

How about for starters by trying a plan different than the cookie cutter one they currently employ and clearly hasn't worked?  And the "scrapping" has almost all come about by dumpster diving and questionable FA deals and trades, not from within- which was my main point, Glen Perkins being the exception that proves the rule.  The game has completely evolved away from the Twins way of thinking, they need to do a careful examination of their current developmental pitching philosophies.

[jokin]

Here's what he was doing at the top end of his game at Louisville.  The report quoted his Louisville coach saying  
"the reason he wanted to go to college was to learn how to pitch."  The report mentions the Twins previous drafting of Burdi back in 2011 out of HS, they obviously have been intent on him "unlearning" for some time, what he was doing previous to coming to the Twins in 2014:

 

 

https://youtu.be/F49Pwt1d-Ao

 

 

 

 

 

[Jham]

 

How about for starters by trying a plan different than the cookie cutter one they currently employ and clearly hasn't worked?  And the "scrapping" has almost all come about by dumpster diving and questionable FA deals and trades, not from within- which was my main point, Glen Perkins being the exception that proves the rule.  The game has completely evolved away from the Twins way of thinking, they need to do a careful examination of their current developmental pitching philosophies.

Yeah, I mean, I think we're basically agreeing.  I just see the Twins as trying to do things the way you want them to (developing power bull-pen arms) and so far that isn't working. I would rather see them draft and develop Burdi's and patch together with Breslows and Nesheks when needed.  Perhaps Nick is right, and the Twins are tinkering for the worse.  I haven't seen that the Twins precipitated that switch.  Maybe they did, and that is blame worthy.  My point is, whether you're looking at statistical results or mechanical, I haven't seen enough to conclude that the organization is mismanaging the young man.  Few prospects dominate each level with no rough patches.  I'm not panicking yet.  I expect Burdi to find his groove again, and be quite good eventually, just not as soon and not as strongly as I once did...

[Shane Wahl]

 

How about this:

Aside from the stirrups that isn't the same pitcher. That's more than tinkering, that's a freakin metamorphosis.

Not acceptable. It wasn't broke, it shouldn't have been fixed. Who cares if he wasn't technically sound and aesthetically pleasing, he is a relief pitcher who didn't have control issues in college. Tinker away if his way didn't work, but there was no reason to assume it wouldn't unless one is of the mind that the Twins homogenous way of creating a pitcher is the only way that works.

 

Wow. Just wow. That is a straight up indictment of the Twins pitching coaches.

[drjim]

Is it generally considered good form or meaningful to compare arm speed in spring training (especially when he had a late start due to injury) with arm speed at one of the last outings of the year?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Was it really "perfectly reasonable" a year ago to have him strike out nearly 50% of the clearly overmatched hitters he faced over his entire 2014 tenure?

 

I don't think anyone is saying that there isn't a plan there.  But one year after his pro debut, it's hard to argue that it's been a good plan, in point of fact, it's been a failed plan thus far.  Jake Reed was on a similar plan, with similar bad second-year results.  

 

And going back specifically to Burdi, being placed to start out your pro career at a performance level commensurate with your current abilities, which one year ago was A+--> and then moving as quickly to AA as performance would merit, would NOT HAVE BEEN "fast-tracking."

 

As far as the plan going forward, if he's striking out at a 50% clip, even more overmatched hitters in the major league sized parks in the FSL, how does that address the areas of concern expressed by Radcliff:

 

 

But AA is currently not where Burdi is at.  And how do you "figure some (of those) things out" at a lower level?  Hopefully, this demotion is just for a couple weeks, and then the real plan is enacted back at his appropriate competitive level.

 

I really don't understand this argument.  Burdi started out in AA this year and he failed.  Would he have somehow succeeded if he had moved up a bit earlier last year?  I highly doubt that.  Lest we forget, his first professional start he managed to not pitch through an inning while giving up a ton of runs.  There's no harm in giving him time at that level to make sure he's mastered it, especially given that relief pitchers are more vulnerable than others to SSS criteria. 

 

The problem with Nick Burdi is not the Twins' management of him, but Nick Burdi.  Can he overcome it?  Most likely, I would guess.  But it might actually take some time.  That's not the end of the world.  He's a college draftee who is in AA for his first full season.  That alone, while not unheard of, is pretty impressive. 

[USMCTwin]

 

How about for starters by trying a plan different than the cookie cutter one they currently employ and clearly hasn't worked?  And the "scrapping" has almost all come about by dumpster diving and questionable FA deals and trades, not from within- which was my main point, Glen Perkins being the exception that proves the rule.  The game has completely evolved away from the Twins way of thinking, they need to do a careful examination of their current developmental pitching philosophies.

 

I think the notion that other teams develop their own talent and the Twins are they only team that can't is overplayed for all pitchers, but certainly relief pitching as well. 

 

Here is the AL with the amount of bullpen that was developed internally either draft or international signings.

 

NYY 4/7 - Bal 2/7 - TB 1/7 - Tor 4/8 - Bos 2/8

KC 4/7 - Min 3/7 - Det 3/7 - Cle 2/8 - CWS 1/8

Hou 0/7 - LAA 1/7 - Tex 2/8 - Sea 3/7 - Oak 0/7

 

So maybe we can gripe about which players they are signing, but I don't think it's fair to complain the game has evolved past the Twins for not developing their own bullpen when they are comparable to the entire AL.

[TheLeviathan]

Man those Burdi videos are depressing.

[Tibs]

I don't think it's fair to compare a video from 2012 and one from spring training in 2015. As someone who hasn't seen Nick Burdi pitch in person throughout his college or professional career, for all I know he could have changed his delivery while still in college from 2012-2014. Those two videos alone aren't an indictment on the Twins pitching coaches.

[Mike Sixel]

Here is a list of RP the Twins have developed in the last few years:

 

[USMCTwin]

 

Here is a list of RP the Twins have developed in the last few years:

 

I get it, but that is remarkably similar to everyone else's list also.

[jokin]

 

I really don't understand this argument.  Burdi started out in AA this year and he failed.  Would he have somehow succeeded if he had moved up a bit earlier last year?  I highly doubt that.  Lest we forget, his first professional start he managed to not pitch through an inning while giving up a ton of runs.  There's no harm in giving him time at that level to make sure he's mastered it, especially given that relief pitchers are more vulnerable than others to SSS criteria. 

 

The problem with Nick Burdi is not the Twins' management of him, but Nick Burdi.  Can he overcome it?  Most likely, I would guess.  But it might actually take some time.  That's not the end of the world.  He's a college draftee who is in AA for his first full season.  That alone, while not unheard of, is pretty impressive. 

 

Don't buy it.. None of it.  Especially when you juxtapose the speculation on your part, vs. the facts as they have been presented to the table already.  "Pretty impressive?"  Maybe for the MN Twins, but not for the best organizations in baseball.  Time to start thinking outside of the local box, already.

[jokin]

 

I get it, but that is remarkably similar to everyone else's list also.

 

Clearly... this is not true.

[jokin]

 

I don't think it's fair to compare a video from 2012 and one from spring training in 2015. As someone who hasn't seen Nick Burdi pitch in person throughout his college or professional career, for all I know he could have changed his delivery while still in college from 2012-2014. Those two videos alone aren't an indictment on the Twins pitching coaches.

 

 

That's true,  but only if you choose to ignore the obvious.  Check the video I posted from just one year before he pitched for the Twins.  And there are many more.  Just check his videos from the CWS and NCAAs leading up to the draft, and then get back to me.

[USMCTwin]

 

Clearly... this is not true.

 

Clearly... you didn't read my post above.

[jokin]

 

Man those Burdi videos are depressing.

 

I think the notion that other teams develop their own talent and the Twins are they only team that can't is overplayed for all pitchers, but certainly relief pitching as well. 

 

Here is the AL with the amount of bullpen that was developed internally either draft or international signings.

 

NYY 4/7 - Bal 2/7 - TB 1/7 - Tor 4/8 - Bos 2/8

KC 4/7 - Min 3/7 - Det 3/7 - Cle 2/8 - CWS 1/8

Hou 0/7 - LAA 1/7 - Tex 2/8 - Sea 3/7 - Oak 0/7

 

So maybe we can gripe about which players they are signing, but I don't think it's fair to complain the game has evolved past the Twins for not developing their own bullpen when they are comparable to the entire AL.

 

Let's compare strikeout rates next...

[jokin]

 

Clearly... you didn't read my post above.

 

 

Clearly, major context is missing... many more pitchers developed over the last 15 years,  and particularly the K rates, for internally developed pitchers are in fact accelerating for the rest of the league, except for the Twins , of course.

[USMCTwin]

 

Let's compare strikeout rates next...

 

Again. So maybe we can gripe about which players they are signing, but I don't think it's fair to complain the game has evolved past the Twins for not developing their own bullpen when they are comparable to the entire AL.

 

[jokin]

 

Again. So maybe we can gripe about which players they are signing, but I don't think it's fair to complain the game has evolved past the Twins for not developing their own bullpen when they are comparable to the entire AL.

 

Except they're not comparable, at all.

[USMCTwin]

 

Except they're not comparable, at all.

 

I can't tell if you are serious. AL league average (without the Twins) is 28% internally developed of the entire bullpen. The Twins currently sit at 43%, ergo above league average. Again I am not arguing anything about the types of players they are signing or developing only your original statement that we are falling behind the league by not developing our own bullpen internally.

[clutterheart]

 

 

Man those Burdi videos are depressing.

 

I don't know about that.  Watching him pitch in college makes my shoulder hurt.  He is all arm.  Ouch. I am not a Dr and I am not a pitching expert but that looks to me like an injury waiting to happen.