2015 Minor League Transactions

[d-mac]

 

Man you're on a roll, preach it brother.

 

I just think we agree on most things.

[d-mac]

 

Man you're on a roll, preach it brother.

 

Their drafting/scouting department and their player development/coaching philosophies are on two different wavelengths. They need to get on the same page and have a unified strategy, otherwise they are going nowhere fast. Maybe they need to make some personnel changes in the minors. The hitters come up with 0 plate discipline and no pitch recognition and the power arm binge is all for naught as we are stuck with the same low-strikeout pitchers in the majors that are laughable out of date. 

[old nurse]

If bullpen arms are such a fungable asset why are there so many teams with such poor bullpens?

[nicksaviking]

 

I thought the tinker was to get movement on his fastball.

 

If that was the sole reason, I see some merit.  It's not working though, so I'm of the mind to let him do what comes natural.  If that also doesn't get results, then gameplan from there.

 

The team is bumping up Berrios to AAA with a flat fastball after all.  I think it's often best to see how things play out with these guys, after all, they were drafted highly because they got results thier way.  Particularly with relievers, who basically are one-trick ponies anyway.  Upon drafting them it's to be expected that these guys already come with a bucket full of flaws, otherwise they'd be starters.

[drjim]

 

If that was the sole reason, I see some merit.  It's not working though, so I'm of the mind to let him do what comes natural.  If that also doesn't get results, then gameplan from there.

 

The team is bumping up Berrios to AAA with a flat fastball after all.  I think it's often best to see how things play out with these guys, after all, they were drafted highly because they got results thier way.  Particularly with relievers, who basically are one-trick ponies anyway.  Upon drafting them it's to be expected that these guys already come with a bucket full of flaws, otherwise they'd be starters.

 

I wonder what the plan is now that he is going back to Ft Myers. I am absolutely on board with trying the maximum for greatest success and then rebooting if it doesn't work.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I wonder what the plan is now that he is going back to Ft Myers. I am absolutely on board with trying the maximum for greatest success and then rebooting if it doesn't work.

 

This is precisely what I wanted to know when I first asked the question.  Having a kid like Burdi demoted at this point in the season signals something major and given his status in the prospect pecking order, I'm pretty interested in hearing answers to "why?" and "what now?"

[Shane Wahl]

Seth, what was behind the release of Jack Barrie?

 

I struck out big on Barrie and Kuresa being bright spots in the low levels this year . . .

 

I think Burdi's demotion is bizarre.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think Burdi's demotion is bizarre.

 

Apparently his ERA alone explains it.  I don't see how, but apparently it does.

[jokin]

 

Seth, what was behind the release of Jack Barrie?

 

I struck out big on Barrie and Kuresa being bright spots in the low levels this year . . .

 

I think Burdi's demotion is bizarre.

 

Apparently his ERA alone explains it.  I don't see how, but apparently it does.

 

The 6.53 BB/9 and 9.54 H/9 doesn't give you pause?

[TheLeviathan]

 

The 6.53 BB/9 and 9.54 H/9 doesn't give you pause?

 

For Nick Burdi to be demoted down to A ball I would expect him to have given up 30 or 40 consecutive home runs.  This is a guy that should be closer to the Twins bullpen than Ft. Myers.  

 

I can see he's struggling, but players struggle and don't get demoted every time.  I would think there is something particular about this situation for this to happen.

[drivlikejehu]

 

For Nick Burdi to be demoted down to A ball I would expect him to have given up 30 or 40 consecutive home runs.  This is a guy that should be closer to the Twins bullpen than Ft. Myers.  

 

I can see he's struggling, but players struggle and don't get demoted every time.  I would think there is something particular about this situation for this to happen.

 

What about him indicates he is close to the Twins bullpen or deserving of special consideration in terms of promotions/demotions? The fact he was an (unwise) 2nd round draft choice doesn't really matter at this point. He's just another guy that throws hard but can't pitch.

[jokin]

 

For Nick Burdi to be demoted down to A ball I would expect him to have given up 30 or 40 consecutive home runs.  This is a guy that should be closer to the Twins bullpen than Ft. Myers.  

 

I can see he's struggling, but players struggle and don't get demoted every time.  I would think there is something particular about this situation for this to happen.

 

What has happened has been the result of misunderstanding a unique skill set, a poor developmental plan and a bit of panic thrown in.   And despite what some might say, he's more than "just another guy".   The Twins are going back to do the remedial things that should have been addressed at this level a year ago, and obviously weren't even touched upon.   Here's Radcliff's remarks about the Burdi demotion and what they have next in store for him:

 

 

“It’s one thing to execute a pitch, right?” Radcliff said. “Catcher sticks down the number. You see it, throw it, try to put it in the right spot. You also have to figure out how to get a hitter out. You can’t just throw 98 (mph) every pitch. You have to pitch some.”

Burdi famously touched 103 mph with his fastball at the Cape Cod League in the summer before this junior year at the University of Louisville. His slider graded out near the top of the scouting scale as well.

After a disastrous pro debut for Class A Cedar Rapids, Burdi posted a 0.72 ERA from July 1 forward. He seemed like a steal for that $1.22 million bonus as the 46th overall pick; Baseball America slotted him in as the No. 7 prospect in the stacked Twins system.

Now Burdi must figure things out amid the first minor crisis of his pro career.

“You need to read the swing, know the hitter, figure out pitchability,” Radcliff said. “It’s all about mentally adjusting. He’s been a thrower his whole life. He’s blessed to throw hard. That’s great. Now you have to get guys out.”

Hard, harder, hardest isn’t always the answer.

“These guys can hit velocity,” Radcliff said. “That doesn’t scare anybody. Once you get up to a certain level, you need to figure some things out. That’s where he’s at.”

A rival scout who saw Burdi recently expressed reservations about his max-effort delivery, comparing it to a carnival contestant trying to knock over a stack of milk bottles. The Twins, however, aren’t worried about the physical side of Burdi’s game.

“It isn’t mechanics,” Radcliff said. “It’s just about pitching. His slider is still hard, but he has to have better command. Stuff can get you a long way. At some point pitchability comes into play. Burdi ran into it at Double-A. We’ll try to fix him up, get him thinking right and get him going.”

 

Radclif in effect confirms, especially in his closing comments, that what "he (Burdi) ran into in AA", should likely have happened last year.   The "fixing" could have been done last year, and in the offseason, and then chances are he'd be "going   forward" now instead of backwards and "thinking right", now already.

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

What about him indicates he is close to the Twins bullpen or deserving of special consideration in terms of promotions/demotions? The fact he was an (unwise) 2nd round draft choice doesn't really matter at this point. He's just another guy that throws hard but can't pitch.

 

Where he was drafted and his possible debut absolutely matter.  There was legitimate hope to see him in our pen this summer if things went well.

 

That they didn't is the issue, but finding out why they didn't go well is my objective.

 

jokin - Thanks for the Radcliff comments.  I still don't understand demoting someone to work on a better attack with hitters.  I'd rather see him adjust against the competition more appropriate for his talent.  But that's just a general philosophy I hold.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Where he was drafted and his possible debut absolutely matter.  There was legitimate hope to see him in our pen this summer if things went well.

 

That they didn't is the issue, but finding out why they didn't go well is my objective.

 

I guess what I meant was - didn't it go wrong on draft day? They made an evaluation of how he would transition to pro ball, and it didn't work out as planned. So now they are slowing things down.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I guess what I meant was - didn't it go wrong on draft day? They made an evaluation of how he would transition to pro ball, and it didn't work out as planned. So now they are slowing things down.

 

I'm not a fan of drafting college relievers and converting them into starters.  I'm not opposed to taking 2nd or 3rd round picks on hard throwing college relievers if they are coming up very quickly to be major league relievers.  So I liked the idea of Burdi, but yes, the evaluation of his ability to do that might have been off.

[drivlikejehu]

 

I'm not a fan of drafting college relievers and converting them into starters.  I'm not opposed to taking 2nd or 3rd round picks on hard throwing college relievers if they are coming up very quickly to be major league relievers.  So I liked the idea of Burdi, but yes, the evaluation of his ability to do that might have been off.

 

His profile struck me as very risky but without the upside of a potential starting pitcher or position player. Granted, the 2nd round comes with fairly low expectations historically, but I would wait until after the first 100 picks except in unusual situations like Tyler Jay, where a college reliever has a legitimate starter projection.

[blairpaul715]

 

Where he was drafted and his possible debut absolutely matter.  There was legitimate hope to see him in our pen this summer if things went well.

 

That they didn't is the issue, but finding out why they didn't go well is my objective.

 

jokin - Thanks for the Radcliff comments.  I still don't understand demoting someone to work on a better attack with hitters.  I'd rather see him adjust against the competition more appropriate for his talent.  But that's just a general philosophy I hold.

Hope from some of the fans, because there is no patience........also I would guess a majority of second rounders dont even make the majors, someone else can look that up..............and as far as demoting, bring back confidence.

[jokin]

 

Hope from some of the fans, because there is no patience........also I would guess a majority of second rounders dont even make the majors, someone else can look that up..............and as far as demoting, bring back confidence.

 

Patience should not be nearly as requisite for flame-throwing college relievers.  Especially when multiple scouting services going into the draft projected him as a mid-1st rounder, and possessing a top of the scale slider.  Guys with Burdi's pedigree and  type of stuff and delivery historically have a short shelf life- by their very nature they need to be fast-tracked.  

 

One year on, and almost to the day from his pro debut, the Twins now have Burdi going backwards, and pitching at the level he should have started out in-  any way you slice it, that's a lost year.

[blairpaul715]

 

Patience should not be nearly as requisite for flame-throwing college relievers.  Especially when multiple scouting services going into the draft projected him as a mid-1st rounder, and possessing a top of the scale slider.  Guys with Burdi's pedigree and  type of stuff and delivery historically have a short shelf life- by their very nature they need to be fast-tracked.  

 

One year on, and almost to the day from his pro debut, the Twins now have Burdi going backwards, and pitching at the level he should have started out in-  any way you slice it, that's a lost year.

Its only a lost yr if you expected him to be in the majors this yr, I think hoping he would be in next yr is optimistic, and 2017 more realistic , and that is assuming you think a 2nd rounder is a sure thing, if he was a sure thing he would have been taken in the 1st round by someone........I believe your expectations of some Twins minor leaguers is just a little to optimistic.

[jokin]

 

Its only a lost yr if you expected him to be in the majors this yr, I think hoping he would be in next yr is optimistic, and 2017 more realistic , and that is assuming you think a 2nd rounder is a sure thing, if he was a sure thing he would have been taken in the 1st round by someone........I believe your expectations of some Twins minor leaguers is just a little to optimistic.

 

It is a lost year, as guys like Burdi, with his flame-throwing ways and his fairly violent delivery, end up either losing velocity or top effectiveness- or both, and flaming out...  or also, in certain cases, suffering catastrophic injury and then having to reinvent themselves- if they're luck to still have major league career options.  I don't think anyone has said that he is a sure thing- and extremely rare (perhaps never?) has a college RP been taken in the 1st round. 

 

But I go back to my first statements, it was a complete waste to have Burdi striking out almost 50% of the mostly helpless batters he faced.  Even Radcliff acknowledges that the plan has been a failure- the Twins have demonstrated now and previously that they really don't know what to do to prepare young strikeout throwers for the majors-  look no further than their K/9 numbers, this would not have happened at many other clubs who bring up guys with the same proclivities, but less raw talent than Burdi.  On those other teams, guys like this are ready to go to the show by age 23, or sometimes earlier  The same type of thing has happened to Jake Reed.  The plan isn't working.  Instead of having both of these guys by their 3rd year, a year has now been thrown away in attempt to meet that goal.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Hope from some of the fans, because there is no patience........also I would guess a majority of second rounders dont even make the majors, someone else can look that up..............and as far as demoting, bring back confidence.

 

I've never found that argument compelling.  How do you gain confidence from being told "you're not good enough to face these hitters"?  

 

And this was not impatience.  Seth Stohs - hardly one to be impatient - pegged him as a possible 2015 addition to the bullpen.

[TheLeviathan]

Here are some links you should read if you think Burdi's demotion is just whining or impatience:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/16884-article-td-top-prospects-10-nick-burdi/

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/11003-article-twins-select-nick-burdi-in-the-2nd-round/page-2

 

This is about a guy that we had good odds of seeing in our bullpen this year being DEMOTED.  This should be a big deal.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Here are some links you should read if you think Burdi's demotion is just whining or impatience:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/16884-article-td-top-prospects-10-nick-burdi/

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/11003-article-twins-select-nick-burdi-in-the-2nd-round/page-2

 

This is about a guy that we had good odds of seeing in our bullpen this year being DEMOTED.  This should be a big deal.

 

Not sure what the upshot is though. Definitely, Burdi's stock has cratered. But isn't that more because he is pitching badly, as opposed to what level he's at?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Not sure what the upshot is though. Definitely, Burdi's stock has cratered. But isn't that more because he is pitching badly, as opposed to what level he's at?

 

Yes, but his expectations play a part in his standing.  If he wasn't supposed to make it past AA this year, this isn't a huge deal.  It's not good news, but it's not devastating.  

 

But a guy most everyone saw as a big leaguer by 2016 (mentions of him setting up for Perkins by the end of this year even!) gets demoted in June?  That's a huge problem.  

[drivlikejehu]

 

Yes, but his expectations play a part in his standing.  If he wasn't supposed to make it past AA this year, this isn't a huge deal.  It's not good news, but it's not devastating.  

 

But a guy most everyone saw as a big leaguer by 2016 (mentions of him setting up for Perkins by the end of this year even!) gets demoted in June?  That's a huge problem.  

 

Well right, but its not an unusual thing for draft picks to quickly lose luster. I was mocked for being concerned about Burdi's very rough start in A ball last year, but the command issues turned out to be a real problem.

[blairpaul715]

 

Yes, but his expectations play a part in his standing.  If he wasn't supposed to make it past AA this year, this isn't a huge deal.  It's not good news, but it's not devastating.  

 

But a guy most everyone saw as a big leaguer by 2016 (mentions of him setting up for Perkins by the end of this year even!) gets demoted in June?  That's a huge problem.  

If you can show me a quote or someone quoting personel from the Twins as saying he was expected to be in the show this yr, i will agree......If people on Twins daily are or were expecting it , altho i love seeing everyones speculation, that is not the same as someone really in the know......................I, like everyone was hoping he might be......................but a prospect is just that, HOPE........they have to prove it, and i have no grand illusions that a 2nd Rd pick will be our saviour when most 2nd rd picks dont even make it..........................Now with all that said, I still think Burdi is going to make it, but that is more hoping than knowing anything.........and if he doesnt make it till 24 or 25, it is not the end of the world, alot of good relief pitchers didnt make their debut till that age or after.

[TheLeviathan]

 

If you can show me a quote or someone quoting personel from the Twins as saying he was expected to be in the show this yr, i will agree......If people on Twins daily are or were expecting it , altho i love seeing everyones speculation, that is not the same as someone really in the know......................I, like everyone was hoping he might be......................but a prospect is just that, HOPE........they have to prove it, and i have no grand illusions that a 2nd Rd pick will be our saviour when most 2nd rd picks dont even make it..........................Now with all that said, I still think Burdi is going to make it, but that is more hoping than knowing anything.........and if he doesnt make it till 24 or 25, it is not the end of the world, alot of good relief pitchers didnt make their debut till that age or after.

 

No Twins' official is ever going to publicly declare a timeline for a new draftee, be fair.  Fans and prospect experts project players as part of their evaluation and the Twins started him at a more advanced level because they also felt he was capable.

 

Having the guy Baseball America said had the best chance of debuting first from that draft class get demoted is a huge disappointment/setback.

[blairpaul715]

 

No Twins' official is ever going to publicly declare a timeline for a new draftee, be fair.  Fans and prospect experts project players as part of their evaluation and the Twins started him at a more advanced level because they also felt he was capable.

 

Having the guy Baseball America said had the best chance of debuting first from that draft class get demoted is a huge disappointment/setback.

Set back yes, disappointment, all depends on how you look at things, but you said they didnt start  at an advanced level last yr when they should have, but then say the Twins started him at an advanced level because they must have thought he was capable.........maybe the Twins started him low, and then decided to challenge him, he failed the first of many trials for a prospect, but that doesnt mean he will fail the whole course, he still is going to be high on my prospect list and I would guess others too.......im guessing you havnt given up on him, but you do seem to have a sour taste in your mouth either about him or how the Twins challenged him and how it failed.

[TheLeviathan]

Set back yes, disappointment, all depends on how you look at things, but you said they didnt start  at an advanced level last yr when they should have, but then say the Twins started him at an advanced level because they must have thought he was capable.........maybe the Twins started him low, and then decided to challenge him, he failed the first of many trials for a prospect, but that doesnt mean he will fail the whole course, he still is going to be high on my prospect list and I would guess others too.......im guessing you havnt given up on him, but you do seem to have a sour taste in your mouth either about him or how the Twins challenged him and how it failed.

You are arguing some bizarre semantics to get stuck on "setback" versus "disappointment", that seems to be the crux of this.

[Jham]

I understand the disappointment from a fan's perspective in not seeing Burdi dominate like he did last year.  I'm disappointed.  However, I fail to see any evidence that Burdi's career or preparation is somehow being mismanaged.  The analysis can't be simply based on results.

 

It sounds to me that the Twins have a perfectly reasonable plan.  Burdi has been given some exact pieces of his game to work on.  I get the impression that the Twins have been urging this from Burdi for awhile.  Let him work on tinkering where he is under less pressure and more likely to succeed with a new approach.  Agree or disagree with the approach all you want, but there's a plan there, and I don't think you can say that he's automatically say he's been mismanaged.  A, AA, He'll be fast tracked when he shows he's ready