Article: Twins Lose, Fans Boo, So Hope Remains

[whydidnt]

 

He is the one that will get more people in the seats when we are loosing five times a week.

Players outside of true Superstars don't get fans in the seats. Winning does. One more reason you don't spend $10M on an over the hill OF with questionable defensive skills because you like his "leadership". People aren't going to pay to see Torii Hunter and never have. 

[laloesch]

 

Who on this squad hasn't been awful so far?

 

Did you happen to notice who hit the "occasional home run" yesterday and has 50% of this year's home run output?

 

Did you happen to notice Escobar's first foray at 3rd on Sunday?- two (very) inadequate, inexplicable plays

 

Actually believe it or not Joe Mauer hasn't been that bad.  

[JB_Iowa]

I do think we have to remember that they have faced some of the best pitching in the league.  Not using it as an excuse so much as a plea for a little patience for the bats to come around.

 

Yes, they have to be able to hit the best pitching at some point but I don't think we should be too surprised that they aren't at that point.

[Thrylos]

Still way way way too early to hit the panic button.

 

But when it is hit, it should not be something like replacing Robinson with Hicks and Boyer with Tonkin, because it will be totally ineffective, might add to a plus 2 in the W column or so.

 

It should be gutting the front office and replacing it with people who have a vision and have experience in building a winning team and are not horders.  Because this team is so bad, that it will require trading people like Arcia and Plouffe and Suzuki and Hughes and Perkins (and I am naming tradable names only) and cutting some of the untradables to do it.

 

Gut and rebuild.  And should start from the top.  And if takes renaming a Bloody Mary, Bloody Terry, I am all good for it...

 

 

[jokin]

 

Actually believe it or not Joe Mauer hasn't been that bad.  

 

Exception that proves the rule  (I like that he's using the whole OF now, but the .292 SLG from the #3 hitter is still problematic).  And he has had multiple gaffes defensively, even though he plays the easiest position.

[Loosey]

The fact that Terry Ryan thought this team he brought north to start the season gave them the best chance to win scares me.   It tells me he has no idea what he is doing, he does not know what the fans want, he is not a good evaluator of talent and he doesn't trust the young players.

 

95% of the people on this site saw the team he put together, especially the bullpen, and could tell they were going to be bad.  And not just bad, but boring and frustrating to watch.  I think the only thing the 95% got wrong was we didn't know they were going to be THIS bad.

 

By Thursday afternoon they will most likely be 8 games back 9 games into the season.  It is clear the roster as it currently sits will not be able to make up those games.  I think it is time TR does what everyone thinks he should have done 2 weeks ago and start bringing up the youngsters.  At a minimum, I would expect Hicks, Meyer, Pressley and Thielbar up in place of Robinson, Pelfrey, Stauffer and Boyer.  Then as we get into May start fast tracking the guys people really want to see.  If that doesn't happen Target Field is going to be empty in a hurry.  At least with the prospects fans can see something exciting.  Signed - Frustrated 7 games in 

[jokin]

 

To be fair, Nolasco getting paid $11.5 million for his mediocrity isn't really his fault.  He just took what was offered.  I find it hard to believe he is trying to play this poorly.

 

 

Why not?  It worked for Vance Worley.

[D. Hocking]

 

Why not?  It worked for Vance Worley.

 

Another post that has made me say to myself, wow - we really have had a lot of less than ideal players cycle through the roster the last few years.  I can't even remember them all (which I guess is not all bad).

[TwinsMasochist]

 

Another post that has made me say to myself, wow - we really have had a lot of less than ideal players cycle through the roster the last few years.  I can't even remember them all (which I guess is not all bad).

 

I'll refresh your memory

 

Cole De vries, Albers, Diamond, Deduno, Hendriks, worley, Marquis, Pelfrey, Correia, Burton, Yohan Pino, clete thomas, Jaimie carrol, Mastroianni, Nishioka, Nick Blackburn, Matt Capps, Jim Hoey, Alex Burnett,Jon Rauch..

 

The list goes on and on.  We are a revolving door of ineptitude. 

[jokin]

 

Even more strange is that a better relief pitcher (Ryan Webb) just got released and cleared waivers and Ryan Pressly had better major league stat's and is in the Twins minors.  Not sure what they see in these players.

 

"Better pitcher"?  Webb would have been the Twins RHP bullpen ace-   and playing for the minimum.

[TwinsMasochist]

 

"Better pitcher"?  Webb would have been the Twins RHP bullpen ace-   and playing for the minimum.

 

It's depressing that this is probably true.

[gocgo]

 

I do think we have to remember that they have faced some of the best pitching in the league.  Not using it as an excuse so much as a plea for a little patience for the bats to come around.

 

Yes, they have to be able to hit the best pitching at some point but I don't think we should be too surprised that they aren't at that point.

For me, it isn't the lack of hitting that has me thinking the worst.  Hitting usually normalizes as the season goes on barring injuries.  The lack of basic defense concerns me the most along with the poor pitching.  Not scoring runs gets you beat.  Not playing good defense when your pitching is bad gets you killed.  Nobody wants to watch a game that is over by the 6th inning unless it is kids who only play 6 innings.

[JB_Iowa]

 

For me, it isn't the lack of hitting that has me thinking the worst.  Hitting usually normalizes as the season goes on barring injuries.  The lack of basic defense concerns me the most along with the poor pitching.  Not scoring runs gets you beat.  Not playing good defense when your pitching is bad gets you killed.  Nobody wants to watch a game that is over by the 6th inning unless it is kids who only play 6 innings.

 

"Concur" as Chief would say.

 

I would ask as I did in the other thread, what in the heck happened to the Twins belief in fundamental defense.  It was as if it kept disappearing under Gardy and now has (seemingly? hopefully?) hit rock bottom.

[Kwak]

 

Players outside of true Superstars don't get fans in the seats. Winning does. One more reason you don't spend $10M on an over the hill OF with questionable defensive skills because you like his "leadership". People aren't going to pay to see Torii Hunter and never have. 

Not true. I used to buy a cheapo ticket and sit in the upper deck of CF to watch Hunter 8+years ago. I sure wouldn't today!

[h2oface]

 

Who on this squad hasn't been awful so far?

 

Did you happen to notice who hit the "occasional home run" yesterday and has 50% of this year's home run output?

 

Did you happen to notice Escobar's first foray at 3rd on Sunday?- two (very) inadequate, inexplicable plays

Ssssssshhhhhhh. Don't tell anybody Escobar has been exposed, too! The Escobar camp just can't take that. 

[wavedog]

I agree as well that the defense is the most alarming/depressing.   I would hope that they are working extra hard on fielding in the next couple of weeks in addition to be open to changes in personnel.  If there is not skill maybe a little will can help.  

[TwinsMasochist]

 

I agree as well that the defense is the most alarming/depressing.   I would hope that they are working extra hard on fielding in the next couple of weeks in addition to be open to changes in personnel.  If there is not skill maybe a little will can help.  

 

We shouldn't have to be teaching guys like Arcia how to defend.  They are in the majors.  He should know how to judge a balls trajectory, he should have developed good instincts at some point, and his route running and jumps should be acceptable.  None of them are.  He's been shagging balls for years and years and still doesn't get it.  It's pretty disappointing.  I doubt all of that is just going to spontaneously "click" after a few extra practices.

[troyhobbs]

 

'I don't think anyone could've predicted they'd be this bad'

 

There were plenty of people who predicted they would be this bad.

To clarify, I wasn't necessarily referring to their record so much as how bad they are to watch. I never advocated taking the over on this squad during any point in ST but I thought at least a few guys might play above average.

[ken]

 

Even more strange is that a better relief pitcher (Ryan Webb) just got released and cleared waivers and Ryan Pressly had better major league stat's and is in the Twins minors.  Not sure what they see in these players.

Good point on Pressly, in 2013 he had an ERA+ 106 and was rewarded with a trip back to the minors.  The last time Stauffer posted a better ERA+ was in 2010 and Boyers was 2009.

 

Of course Pressly isn't mid-30's.  I think he needs a good attorney for an age discrimination case,

[TheLeviathan]

 

"Concur" as Chief would say.

 

I would ask as I did in the other thread, what in the heck happened to the Twins belief in fundamental defense.  It was as if it kept disappearing under Gardy and now has (seemingly? hopefully?) hit rock bottom.

 

The worst part is, so long as this is the starting nine...it likely ain't getting any better either.  This isn't just a tough few games, this is what we should expect from this group of defenders.

 

That's scary.

[Dr. Evil]

This team is not better than they were when they started kicking out 90 plus loss seasons. Not even slightly better. All we have is more prospects in the system. That's not because we develope them better. That's because we are better at sucking. Yea, I am pissed.

 

[ashbury]

 

Somebody tell Terry Ryan that "can't hit, can't pitch, and can't field" is a poor roster building philosophy, and doesn't make you a contender.

Can't hit, can't pitch, and can't field is no way to go through life, son.

 

http://i0.wp.com/www.themovies.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Animalhouse1257.jpg

[Puckett34]

All is well!!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro

[Platoon]

A couple of replies to thoughts....

 

Terry Ryan sits down with the media before EVERY game, both in season and in spring training, to answer questions. He may have been wrong about this team, but this was not a lie. 

 

Nor was Hunter "just" a marketing ploy. They thought he had something left in the tank and they hoped he would help with the kids. Unfortunately, the primary kid I think they wanted to help - Hicks - is in Rochester. And Hunter either was not prepared enough (maybe due to it being a homecoming) or slumping or has got old fast. 

 

I will say this - I'm not sure they really understood his defensive shortcomings. I don't know if we'll ever know that. They're not going to trash him, and he's trying out there - he's just failing. They will tell you they are very suspicious of defensive metrics. 

 

This does feel like a crisis from the outside. It feels like they could be on a path where nobody's job is safe. It's very early on that path, but when a team is 1-6 and is playing even worse baseball than that represents, just about anything is in play. 

 

I will add some optimistic notes:

- I don't believe this team is as bad as they are showing right now.

- Trevor May showed some real resilience yesterday.

- A really bad start could mean a lot of prospects a lot sooner than we planned. 

- If the Twins really wanted to fix the OF defense, they have a highly prized centerfielder in AA right now whose defense draws rave reviews.

- The bullpen fixes could (and should) come quickly.

. The mentoring thing puzzled me for this reason: If you were bringing in a guy, Hunter, to "mentor" then why did every position decision go to players who would not need or benefit from mentoring. The often used joke on TD is that Hunter should be a thousand miles from here, is actually almost a fact. There is no one to mentor. Arcia, maybe? One other thing about Arcia. He is not a good outfielder, no news there. But he is generally far better going to his left. He belongs in RF, in theory he should have help there to his right side, and his arm plays well there.

[Platoon]

I don't agree with that. That's maybe what they said, and they should say... but I think that Ryan regained control with the managerial change. The roster decisions were all business decisions.

 

The one exception might be the backup catcher. Molitor really likes Herrmann, and Pinto's concussion likely got Ryan to option him and keep Herrmann.

 

Stauffer - he was a free agent they weren't going to drop before the regular season.

Boyer - had the opt-out... the other guys had options.

Robinson - the same.

 

5th starter - Pelfrey would have been lost. Pelfrey and Milone were making money. May had an option left.

 

Nunez over Bernier is about the contract.

 

. I made a point similar to this a couple weeks ago, about roster control. But I said it somewhat tongue in cheek. My semi serious take was that Dougy lost out because it would have been very difficult to keep him from wanting his team from last year up here. Maybe I was not so far off? Btw, "business decisions"? Is this Wal Mart? Or MLB?

[Platoon]

Scathing!  Pretty much spelled it out and "here we are".

. Does this mean there won't be a 2 year extension? We could buy out year 41 and 42!

[theBOMisthebomb]

You guys should become Saints fans and just forget this Twins nonsense. The games are meaningless for both teams. So why not just go to a Saints game and enjoy the atmosphere and not worry about the action on the field. Much less stress.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

This leads to my biggest question regarding Hicks.  Is he really not better as a fielder than Robinson or Shafer or Hunter?  If not, than he was a bust as a pick and as a prospect.  If he is, than why isn't he on the Twins and working towards a gold glove?

BUST

[JB_Iowa]

 

BUST

 

Hicks is looking like he wants to be back in Minny.  Another triple tonight and an OF assist.

 

Probably more fun in Rochester but the pays a lot better in the TC.

[Jerr]

 

You guys should become Saints fans and just forget this Twins nonsense. The games are meaningless for both teams. So why not just go to a Saints game and enjoy the atmosphere and not worry about the action on the field. Much less stress.

I am battling this now, been a fan (at 8 yrs.old in1961) of the Twins and have no reason to spend my money on the lack of desire/discipline/knowledge of this current team. I was not for Molitor to manage, but had hope.

 

I am losing that hope.... starting to look like a bunch of over paid has been/don't matter players!

 

Shame on them and the Twins, after getting their new home park, thanks to us fans