Article: Twins Lose, Fans Boo, So Hope Remains

[gocgo]

Good news - Twins tickets will be cheap.

Bad news - If I take my kids, they might learn how to play bad baseball.

 

What a a dilemna!

[jimmer]

 

Did Nolasco really "boo" back at the camera yesterday when he was announced? I wasn't able to see the pregame.... That would be pretty crappy of him, I realize that it must be tough to hear boos directed at you, but maybe he should try to not be the worst pitcher in the league?

I know it sounds petty and makes little sense to some, but him saying he'd rather be back in LA than in Minnesota doesn't sit well with some Minnesota natives.

Edited April 14, 2015 by jimmer

[gocgo]

As far as Molly's managing...you can't polish a turd.  It won't matter what lineup he throws out there, we are worse than our opponents at well over half of the positions on the field when you combine the defensive and offensive skills of these players.  You can't win with that just like you can't polish a turd.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Why care about losing Stauffer and Boyer........this fear of losing bad players continues to baffle me.

 

To be fair, Stauffer has not been a bad player in recent years. Boyer... nothing worth worrying about losing. 

[Hrbowski]

 

With each passing game, the signing of Torii Hunter only looks worse.

He is the one that will get more people in the seats when we are loosing five times a week.

[Vanimal46]

 

I know it sounds petty and makes little sense to some, but him saying he'd rather be back in LA than in Minnesota doesn't sit well with some Minnesota natives.

 

Sure that plays into it. But more than that, he's just been flat out brutal since joining the team. A 5.38 ERA last year, large # of walks allowed, and throwing meat balls down the middle (like Moonshot Scott Baker) isn't going to win over any fan base.

 

Plus... the $11.5 million pay check for mediocrity doesn't sit well either.

[troyhobbs]

I don't think anyone could've predicted they'd be this bad, they look worse than any MLB team I can ever recall watching. The Hunter signing is on TR and the terrible bullpen is on TR.  Pretty much everything else has to fall on Molitor, these guys look so unprepared and nonchalant about winning a ball game. Doesn't matter how much their down, you can always find Mauer having a friendly conversation with whoever is on 1B with a big smile on his face. They act like they expect to lose...no grit or heart on this team.  Booo

[jimmer]

'I don't think anyone could've predicted they'd be this bad'

 

There were plenty of people who predicted they would be this bad.

Edited April 14, 2015 by jimmer

[KGB]

 

Why care about losing Stauffer and Boyer........this fear of losing bad players continues to baffle me.

Even more strange is that a better relief pitcher (Ryan Webb) just got released and cleared waivers and Ryan Pressly had better major league stat's and is in the Twins minors.  Not sure what they see in these players.

[chopper0080]

 

Sure that plays into it. But more than that, he's just been flat out brutal since joining the team. A 5.38 ERA last year, large # of walks allowed, and throwing meat balls down the middle (like Moonshot Scott Baker) isn't going to win over any fan base.

 

Plus... the $11.5 million pay check for mediocrity doesn't sit well either.

 

To be fair, Nolasco getting paid $11.5 million for his mediocrity isn't really his fault.  He just took what was offered.  I find it hard to believe he is trying to play this poorly.

[gocgo]

 

He is the one that will get more people in the seats when we are loosing five times a week.

There's not many weeks when we have 2 days off.

[JustinCB]

Hunter is looking Kubel-esque from last year on both sides of the ball, except they're paying him 10 mil to do it.

[BK432]

 

Continuing to LIE to your fans, who, btw are not stupid, is bad business, imo. Which is pretty much what Ryan did when he said Hunter was a good defender.

 

I don't think TR was lying. I think he actually believed it. Which is actually worse. Because while I've defended him because of the mess he inherited, I will no longer do it. Because he actually had video and data available to him and still believed Hunter would be "fine" in RF, that tells me everything I need to know. It tells me he doesn't know how to use those tools to effectively evaluate major league ballplayers. And there's just no damn excuse for that in 2015.

[Lefty]

Molitor isn't a coach, he's a manager.  It's not like he's teaching all these players something that they don't know.  He has to put people in a position to succeed, which in the Twins' case is impossible.  

 

Nolasco, Hunter, Stauffer, and Santana have all been hugely overrated pickups.  Even if Santana had started the season, he would have been a .500 pitcher at best.  A Twins fans, we're trained to think that that's a great signing.  We couldn't have known that he'd be suspended, but he's a .500 guy playing for the Braves and Angels... he wouldn't turn into a winner here.  Until they sign legit talent in free agency and develop their so-called superstars in the minors, we'll continue to be in the cellar.  Terry Ryan NEEDS TO GO!

[HitInAPinch]

My last word on Torii Hunter:  an article by Aaron Gleeman on the day after the Twins sign Hunter.  It starts getting interesting in the 3rd paragraph.

 

http://aarongleeman.com/2014/12/03/twins-sign-torii-hunter-for-10-5-million/

 

 

[Vanimal46]

 

To be fair, Nolasco getting paid $11.5 million for his mediocrity isn't really his fault.  He just took what was offered.  I find it hard to believe he is trying to play this poorly.

 

 

Yes that is true. Can't blame anyone for taking a raise when it's offered to them. He was mediocre in the NL with only 2 full seasons below a 4 ERA. I don't know why he was expected to do anything better in the AL with us. If only we weren't so desperate for any pitcher with a pulse that off-season. I fear it's going to be the same situation in 2017-2018 seasons with Ervin Santana.  

[howieramone2]

 

Molitor isn't a coach, he's a manager.  It's not like he's teaching all these players something that they don't know.  He has to put people in a position to succeed, which in the Twins' case is impossible.  

 

Nolasco, Hunter, Stauffer, and Santana have all been hugely overrated pickups.  Even if Santana had started the season, he would have been a .500 pitcher at best.  A Twins fans, we're trained to think that that's a great signing.  We couldn't have known that he'd be suspended, but he's a .500 guy playing for the Braves and Angels... he wouldn't turn into a winner here.  Until they sign legit talent in free agency and develop their so-called superstars in the minors, we'll continue to be in the cellar.  Terry Ryan NEEDS TO GO!

 

By who? Many thought those were solid signings, but I don't recall visions of sugarplums dancing thru anyones head.

[TheLeviathan]

 

By who? Many thought those were solid signings, but I don't recall visions of sugarplums dancing thru anyones head.

 

We're a long way from solid much less sugar plums.

[chopper0080]

Terry Ryan is just secretly trying to recreate the movie Major League in 2016.

 

Joe Mauer as Jake  Taylor

Alex Meyer as Wild Thing Rick Vaughn

Bryan Buxton as Willie Mays Hayes

Miguel Sano as Pedro Cerrano

Brian Dozier as Roger Dorn

 

Paul Molitor as Lou Brown

[gocgo]

 

My last word on Torii Hunter:  an article by Aaron Gleeman on the day after the Twins sign Hunter.  It starts getting interesting in the 3rd paragraph.

 

http://aarongleeman.com/2014/12/03/twins-sign-torii-hunter-for-10-5-million/

Scathing!  Pretty much spelled it out and "here we are".

[gocgo]

 

By who? Many thought those were solid signings, but I don't recall visions of sugarplums dancing thru anyones head.

I liked the signing of Phil Hughes because he is the right age to sign a guy to a 4 year contract.  I hated the Santana signing.  A look at nearly every pitcher will show that very, very few get better after 30 and most fall off a cliff at 32.  No matter if they are a starting pitcher or a reliever.  TR may not like advanced metrics but he can't deny that age does matter...unless you are on PED's (Roger Clemens improved after 32)....oh, wait...

[jimmer]

I think a lot like the Hughes extension based on ONE great season he had with us.  Will they like it if he goes back to being the NY Hughes?

[chopper0080]

 

I like Brian Doziers chances as the number four hitter behind Joe Mauer right now than Torii Hunter. At least Dozier has a chance to turn on a hot fastball and pull it to left field which is the way Target field plays, left to left center pull for home runs or gap shots. Hunter is more of a two right now than a three or four, his bat lends itself to getting on base and taking advantage of pitchers that are napping on him. Dozier is not a classic four but he fits that bill right now until someone like Vargas or Sano is ready to take care of this spot.

 

If Hunter is your #4 hitter, you're building your roster wrong.

[chopper0080]

 

I think a lot like the Hughes extension based on ONE great season he had with us.  Will they like it if he goes back to being the NY Hughes?

Agreed.  We bought low and then gave an extension, rather than using those savings to build a better roster.  The same applies to Dozier is some respects.

 

Why are we extending players who he have under team control for multiple years?  Who knows what the team is going to look like in two or three seasons, and if we are going to even want to pay Hughes and Dozier.  One more example of how this rebuilding has been FUBAR'd.

[jokin]

 

 

 Plouffe has been AWFUL so far.  Perhaps he turns it around, but how much longer do the Twins put up with the low batting average and high strikeout rates when he can't even get a hit period, let alone the occassional homerun?  I think at the very least you bench him in favor of Escobar who can hit .250 and play the position adequately at least for the time being. 

 

Who on this squad hasn't been awful so far?

 

Did you happen to notice who hit the "occasional home run" yesterday and has 50% of this year's home run output?

 

Did you happen to notice Escobar's first foray at 3rd on Sunday?- two (very) inadequate, inexplicable plays

[chopper0080]

 

Who on this squad hasn't been awful so far?

 

Did you happen to notice who hit the "occasional home run" yesterday and has 50% of this year's home run output?

 

Did you happen to notice Escobar's first foray at 3rd on Sunday?- two (very) inadequate, inexplicable plays

Somebody tell Terry Ryan that "can't hit, can't pitch, and can't field" is a poor roster building philosophy, and doesn't make you a contender.

[D. Hocking]

 

Hunter is looking Kubel-esque from last year on both sides of the ball, except they're paying him 10 mil to do it.

 

I was not a fan of the Hunter signing -- felt they needed someone better defensively, that the whole club-house thing is overrated in general and overrated for Torii, and that if the season goes south Torii might actually be a negative presence in the club house, but I thought Torii would be better at the plate than Kubel circa 2014.  Now I am not so sure.

 

I will say the Hunter signing did help decrease any positive feelings for the front office.  It just seemed like the classic veteran move they have made the last few years that have not panned out.  I am over-generalizing, but it seems like they cannot veer too far off from their old model.  The way they quickly dismissed Torii's defensive metrics in interviews reinforced that.  I am getting biased and not looking objectively, but it seems like Ryan quickly goes into defensive mode when asked about how he makes his decisions.  I am Terry Ryan, I know how to make decisions.

 

I will admit this is a little tenuous of a theory, but I also feel like part of the Torii signing was to deflect from their previous rosters not working.  It is not just because we did not assemble a team talent-wise, it was because our players were too quiet in the clubhouse.  It is not playing ability, it is because Joe etc. is too quiet and Torii will change that.  Again, not exactly a substantive argument/theory, but I am tired and crabby.

 

As for hope - it is April.  It could be that this bad of play is going to force them to think outside the box and make some changes and moves they would not have if we were merely playing mediocre.  I do think the hitting will improve, and the pitching has a chance to stabilize.  Chances are we were not going to make the play-offs, so this bad first week probably is not going to cause us to lose the wild card spot by one game.

[jimmer]

 

Somebody tell Terry Ryan that "can't hit, can't pitch, and can't field" is a poor roster building philosophy, and doesn't make you a contender.

Hey, but just wait, all these prospects are coming.  It's all about the prospects.  Guaranteed winning with all these top prospects.:-)

[jokin]

 

'I don't think anyone could've predicted they'd be this bad'

 

There were plenty of people who predicted they would be this bad.

 

Hey....   I resemble that remark.  My prediction of 15 out of 1st place by May 15 seems like a solid bet at this point. *

 

*If only I had put my money where my mouth was... stupid me.  (Admittedly, my interest in seeing this scenario come about was partially wishful thinking in the hopes that such a horrendous start would finally force the franchise and its ownership to bite the bullet and effect the changes that this franchise so desperately needs to undertake-   but man, that last week of ST,and all that went down was very foreboding, indeed).

Edited April 14, 2015 by jokin

[savvyspy]

The thought that this team is suspect of defensive metrics and not only watched yesterday's dumpster fire but the dreck they've been tossing out there the last 4 season but are actually ok with it leaves me absolutely dumbfounded.

 

Dozier butchering the double play was a mistake. You have to turn your body, plant, and throw the ball to Santana not backhand it from 25 feet. That stuff is fixable.

 

Sending Hunter and Arcia out there to lumber around the outfield not getting to routine balls in the gap, miss multiple cutoff men, and drop pop ups is malpractice by Terry Ryan. Both are DH only at this point period. 

 

The arrogance Ryan of prioritizing teaching Hicks some sort of BS "Twins Way" lesson in favor of going north with TWO center fielders that absolutely cannot hit LH pitching is fire able in my mind. Its just Terry Ryan being a stubborn old man at the expense of fixing this mess. Until that behavior changes this team has nothing but the #1 pick to look forward to.