Article: Ervin Santana Suspended 80 Games For Steroids

[biggentleben]

 

The Braves should not be benefitting from a draft pick when they were the team benefitting from Santana's cheating.

 

1. You know when he began using?

 

2. The Braves nearly lost 90 games last year in Santana's only season with the team.  Where was that benefit?

[Squirrel]

Rin-coid was the only player since 2005 to be caught while on the Twins. The rest were minor leaguers, and I really don't count that. I guess you could include Vargas, because he actually made it to the show. But other than that, none of those on Bernadino's list were perpetrators while on the Twins except Ster-juan Rin-coid, as my boys and I used to call him.

This was before that, before testing. He wasn't caught, but he admitted to it after his career was done

[nicksaviking]

My thoughts, hours after the announcement...

 

Terry Ryan can't be blamed for this. It's silly to go there.

 

It's on Santana... that's it.

Ryan can't be blamed for Santana taking steroids, but he can be blamed for signing a 32 year old pitcher with a torn UCL to a four year deal. It's not just armchair fans who were critical of the move, most pundits nationally couldn't figure out why a team on the verge of promoting its young talent would do that to the roster.

[USAFChief]

Ryan can't be blamed for Santana taking steroids, but he can be blamed for signing a 32 year old pitcher with a torn UCL to a four year deal. It's not just armchair fans who were critical of the move, most pundits nationally couldn't figure out why a team on the verge of promoting its young talent would do that to the roster.

The kicker is, though, with Santana out of the picture, that young talent still isn't on the roster.

 

Perhaps that was never the plan.

[nicksaviking]

1. You know when he began using?

 

2. The Braves nearly lost 90 games last year in Santana's only season with the team. Where was that benefit?

You're not really going to start insisting on reasonable doubt?

 

Did another club benefit from Santana last year? The Braves are under budget and were needing pitching going into the off season. The probably made no effort to sign him because they knew.

Edited April 4, 2015 by nicksaviking

[USAFChief]

You're not really going to start insisting on reasonable doubt?

Did another club benefit from Santana last year? The Braves are budget and were needing pitching going into the off season. The probably made no effort to sign him because they knew.

If the Braves knew, then it shouldn't have been all that hard for the Twins to know, IMO. How do you hand someone that many millions without some vetting?

[biggentleben]

 

You're not really going to start insisting on reasonable doubt?

Did another club benefit from Santana last year? The Braves are budget and were needing pitching going into the off season. The probably made no effort to sign him because they knew.

 

What reasonable doubt? He was suspended this spring from either a spring or offseason test.  He was part of multiple tests in 2014 with the Braves and didn't get popped.

 

The Braves didn't pursue Santana before he was signed because they didn't have the financial resources to do such.  By the time they had freed up the money to make a run at a big contract like that, the Twins had already signed Santana.  They offered him the qualifying offer, so they obviously felt he was worthy of a $14M+ annual contract.  The Braves decision on Santana was 100% financial, not suspension related.

[Danchat]

 

The kicker is, though, with Santana out of the picture, that young talent still isn't on the roster.

Perhaps that was never the plan.

 

Y'know, I have a feeling that this is the case. When the veterans "blocking" the rookies are taken off the roster, they are just replaced with other veterans.

[jorgenswest]

So you think they should release Vargas too?

One was a 20 year old kid in rookie ball.

 

The other is a 10 year major league veteran with a salary that will set him up for life many times over. He was brought in to be a leader on the team. Neal Allen talked about his mentoring Berrios and they purposely paired them in the same game. He is role model for children in his country. His response about not knowing he had an old school steroid in his body is impossible to believe. This is something that is taken daily and methodically.

[Kwak]

 

The kicker is, though, with Santana out of the picture, that young talent still isn't on the roster.

Perhaps that was never the plan.

Amen.  There can't be any other rational explanation.

[jokin]

 

One was a 20 year old kid in rookie ball.

The other is a 10 year major league veteran with a salary that will set him up for life many times over. He was brought in to be a leader on the team. Neal Allen talked about his mentoring Berrios and they purposely paired them in the same game. He is role model for children in his country. His response about not knowing he had an old school steroid in his body is impossible to believe.

This is something that is taken daily and methodically.

 

I haven't followed Santana's career closely.    Do you, or anyone else, know if he's ever been linked in the media, even innuendo or rumor, to PEDs previous to this event? 

 

It's been reported that Ervin's PED of choice doesn't have a known masking agent and is detectable in the bloodstream for months after injections (Rafael Palmiero was one of 11 players caught using stanozolol in 2005)-- so then, I'm wondering how he was able to hide his PED usage for all of these years as a professional? 

 

Why is he playing on his 4th team in four seasons? 

 

Are the one year deals offered by his previous two employers possible red flags that a typical GM must take into account for potential PED issues when considering long-term contract offers?

 

It would seem that having an informational buddy network of drug spies on potential FA and trading targets would be a good use of a relatively small amount of funds in order to mitigate the risks from signing or inheriting long-term contract liabilities.

 

I'm not trying to second-guess Twins management here, I'm just wondering how and why the League, with this new draconian policy for first-offense suspensions, has in effect, put the small and medium market teams especially, in a more precarious financial position than the players.    It would seem with the half-year penalty, this type of long-term signing for a Starting Pitcher especially, entails far more risk-  from PED suspensions, known/unknown injury, non-performance- than the expected derived benefits would warrant.

Edited April 4, 2015 by jokin

[h2oface]

 

Why is he playing on his 4th team in four seasons? 

 

Are the one year deals offered by his previous two employers possible red flags that a typical GM must take into account for potential PED issues when considering long-term contract offers?

A red flag, to me, is a partially torn UCL for any long term contract. Wainwright's lasted 8 years. Santana is on 6 1/2. Plus he wanted too much money - like 20 mil a year for 5 years - and would cost a draft pick. He had that good year in KC in 2013, but the year before (2012) he was horrible for the Angels. 5.19 ERA with a 5.39 FIP and gave up 39 homers horrible. He was delusional. He is a mediocre 4 to 5 ERA innings eater. Just a couple seasons back, he was horrible - Pelfry/Nolasco horrible!  Why would anyone in their right mind give him a 4 year guaranteed contract?

Edited April 4, 2015 by h2oface

[h2oface]

 

Did another club benefit from Santana last year? The Braves are under budget and were needing pitching going into the off season. The probably made no effort to sign him because they knew.

That is a real conspiracy stretch. The Braves are retooling. They might have resigned him, but they are not crazy. One year at a time for Santana and his partially torn UCL.

[jokin]

There are times to ignore Reusse, but this is a time for the muckraker to tell it like it is, starting with the headline and sub-headline and he kept piling up the scorn and derision within the body of the article:

 

 

 

Santana's half-season ban puts Twins in deep trouble

• Article by: PATRICK REUSSE , Star Tribune
• Updated: April 4, 2015 - 12:57 AM

Veteran free-agent shows he’s a lying fraud

 

 

 

Nobody would have imagined at the introductory news conference, or in his appearances at Twins Fest, or with his attitude in this spring training, that Santana also had respect for tradition when it came to the use of steroids.

                                                                                                                                                                                       His PED of choice was stanozolol, an oldie but goodie for athletes choosing to cheat with steroids.

 

Sticking to tradition, Santana and his agents also tried to sell the idea that the athlete was mystified as to how stanozolol entered his system. That’s a world-class level of bull slinging, since stanozolol is notorious as a muscle builder and not found in supplements.

 

Bottom line: You don’t test positive for stanozolol by accident.

So, now we know that Ervin Santana is worse than a fraud: He’s a lying fraud.

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2015 by jokin

[Shane Wahl]

Let him lose that money and come back. He will have served his "time."

 

The people piling on about the wrongness of signing Santana in the first place is a bit much. It was a smart acquisition. He is just a cheater.

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

Does anyone know what the implications are for releasing Santana now?

 

Would the Twins have to honor the contract after eighty games?

[HitInAPinch]

I'm not questioning Ryan, either.  What I am questioning:

 

1.  When did this test take place and was he tested in Atlanta?  Was it a random test?  ESPN said there were suspicions back to his Angel days because of his wildly erratic year-to-year performances.  I'm finding it hard to believe this was his first test.

 

2.  Why Pelfry?  I get the move, but he had just settled into the bullpen role.  Are we saying it's better to jerk around Pelfry than May or Meyer?  That I can kinda buy.

[tobi0040]

Nothing will change unless teams have the option to void a contract after a failed test

 

And why shouldn't the twins have this option? We signed a guy because we thought he was something he wasn't.

[hybridbear]

 

Not sure, but I would think that MLB considering offering a FA contract could demand medical testing--including those of PEDs.  Of course, a player could refuse, but then the team could respond--"we're outta' here!" 

Said contract offer could (should?) include a clause concerning the use of PEDs--including penalties. However, I didn't see the Twins' offer to Santana--so, I can't form a conclusion.

Considering that PED 1st suspensions are now 80 games it surprises me that teams wouldn't put a PED clause in a contract which would penalize a player for a positive test more than the 80 games of lost salary. This would also afford some protection for the team.

[Halsey Hall]

 

There were others. But I don't recall who.

Cuddy, Dustan Mohr for a couple. 

[Boom Boom]

Whenever this test was, presumably it was the most recent test. It's possible that Santana was using previous to then, but he's been around a while and I'm sure this is not the first PED test he was required to take.

 

As for voiding his contract, that's just not how things work right now. I bet the Yanquis would have been all over voiding A-Rod's contract if that was ever an option.

 

I'm disappointed that Santana is suspended and doubly disappointed that Pelfrey is back to the rotation. I've seen plenty of him. TR said that he went with Pelf because Pelf outpitched May in spring training, which is true, but it's also true that Pelf outpitched Milone, who got the open spot.

 

My interest in this team just took a nosedive. I really want to get excited, but they're not giving us much to be excited about.

[Halsey Hall]

Dan Naulty was the player who admitted using years after he retired. 

[bird]

 

link, please.

 

This stays our little secret, slash. Remember their slogan: "Supplies are limited, but the fun is not."

[D. Hocking]

 

As for voiding his contract, that's just not how things work right now. I bet the Yanquis would have been all over voiding A-Rod's contract if that was ever an option.

Yes -- I flipped on the radio when I heard the news (thanks for putting a damper on my day off Irvin) - Buster O was talking to Ruesse and were saying that there was not much a team could do at this point.  It almost sounded like it was something the player's association would have to change.

 

Buster mentioned players hate it when someone who gets caught makes the claim they do not know how they tested positive, so Santana probably did not help himself by not just coming clean - esp since he is not appealing.  On one of the newscasts last night, they were saying he had become a big club house presence and how the younger Latin players looked up to him.  I don't think we ever really know how the clubhouse is (I think what the media sees and/or reports is an incomplete picture), but it could be interesting when he comes back.   It would be nice if he changes his story and just openly accepted responsibility and admitted he screwed up.  

Edited April 4, 2015 by D. Hocking

[bird]

 

No provision in his contract that allows Twins to nullify the deal? Seems like Twins could and should find a way out of this deal.

 

 

My first thought. Turn it into an opportunity and sue for "breach of contract." Not much to lose and a lot to gain in ridding yourself of this scumbag cheater.

[jorgenswest]

If the fifth starter can pitch at replacement level, it probably has the cost of 1 win. Twin fifth starters haven't been that successful so maybe it will be two wins. That might be critical to a team fighting for the wild card but it doesn't change the 2015 outlook for the Twins.

[Otto von Ballpark]

There was someone else ... earlier ... who admitted to using well after, and took a roster spot from someone else. I can't remember who it was but it was a pitcher. Maybe in the 90s or earlier in the 2000s? It was before testing in the 'turn a blind eye' era.

Dan Naulty.

 

Also, Matt Lawton was busted several years after leaving the Twins (in the first year of testing).

[Otto von Ballpark]

I would guess the CBA prohibits PED clauses. It would give teams a massive incentive for foul play.

[TheLeviathan]

I would guess the CBA prohibits PED clauses. It would give teams a massive incentive for foul play.

And players a route to accuse the team trainers of sabotage.

[Squirrel]

Dan Naulty was the player who admitted using years after he retired.

 

Dan Naulty.

Yes, this was who I was remembering. Thanks.