Article: Twins Say Now Is Not The Time For Trevor May

[whydidnt]

Whether they were coming up at 22 or 23 misses the point. Meyer has over 200 quality IP between AA - AAA, he led the league in Ks last year. Something not many top prospects get a chance to do, since they are usually promoted. He is 24, going on 25 years old and has little left to prove in the minors. 

 

Gibson pitched well at AAA to start 2013, but was "blocked" by several mediocre arms. Think if he could have learned to adjust at the major league level that year - perhaps last year would have been a better season for him. 

 

May dominated at AAA last year, he has nothing left to prove there, and after adjusting to the majors showed enough to get a shot this year.  

 

If they were blocked by Koufax, J.Santana, Blyleven, Kaat and Morris I understand why they haven't been promoted, but they have been blocked by a bunch of junk. The Twins are slow rolling these guys. I agree that we haven't had enough talent to see if this is part of their philosophy, but you aren't going to convince me that they are holding these guys back for some unknown reason. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

people were clamoring for the Twins to go out and sign some good pitchers. They signed several to multi year deals (which I might add is the only thing they can do when the pitcher is quasi-decent). Now people are upset b/c the Twins are playing these guys. Not sure you can have it both ways. The moment Santana was signed, there was going to be a logjam in the rotation... and that log jam is going to be here for a while. Other than Milone who can be non-tendered and/or traded relatively easily, no one is coming off of the rotation next year baring a trade, and I doubt there will be many teams lining up to take Nolasco or Santana off of our hands.... even Hughes for that matter. If they want both May and Meyer in the rotation, I'm guessing Gibson gets traded.

[tobi0040]

I think Meyer and May could have made this team, but 200 ip across aa and aaa is averaging about 15 starts a league. If you saw him in spring training he needs to work out some links. No doubt.

[laloesch]

 

people were clamoring for the Twins to go out and sign some good pitchers. They signed several to multi year deals (which I might add is the only thing they can do when the pitcher is quasi-decent). Now people are upset b/c the Twins are playing these guys. Not sure you can have it both ways. The moment Santana was signed, there was going to be a logjam in the rotation... and that log jam is going to be here for a while. Other than Milone who can be non-tendered and/or traded relatively easily, no one is coming off of the rotation next year baring a trade, and I doubt there will be many teams lining up to take Nolasco or Santana off of our hands.... even Hughes for that matter. If they want both May and Meyer in the rotation, I'm guessing Gibson gets traded.

 

I think we need to be careful with the assumptions.  There were MANY many Twins fans that never wanted these signings to begin with.  I get the Hughes extension after last season and to a lesser extent the Santana signing in principle (4 years was too many given his age, IMO).  But I think most of us can agree that we never wanted or warmed up to the Nolasco or Pelfrey deal(s).  

 

So in reality its not "having it both ways" at all.  If those two hadn't been signed we'd have had a true open competition for #5 (Meyer, Berrios & May) with Hughes, Santana, Gibson locks at 1-3 and Milone more or less penciled in at #4.

 

Unfortunately, Terry Ryan appears to be growing impatient (probably under pressure from ownership to start winning) thus he is clogging things up with these mediocre signings.  

 

This could jeopardize the development of May and Meyer who need significant major league experience soon.   Remember too that during the winter meetings Ryan was hunting for 2 starters and attempted to get Kyle Kendricks. So what does that say about his confidence in these youngsters?

 

That said, there is NOTHING to be gained by keeping May in AAA.  The guy was ready last August and should have made the rotation out of spring training, despite the flu limiting his innings and the one good, one bad starts.  

 

Meyer on the other hand needs a little more time given his chaotic mechanics, inconsistency and mental game issues.  So I see the reasoning that he was sent down at least temporarily.  Berrios, obviously needs to pitch in AAA first before jumping to the major league level but he could be knocking on the door very soon.  

 

The Twins have A LOT of decisions to make this season.   Either embrace the youth movement and trade some of the starters or stick with what they have and trade the prospects (which they probably won't do either).    

 

On a side note, I think the bullpen is going to be atrocious and we'll quickly see call ups.     

Edited April 2, 2015 by laloesch

[nicksaviking]

 

Two of the biggest success stores on our team right now are Dozier and Plouffe. I looked at minor league baseballs top prospects from 2009 to 2011 and neither was listed as a top 20 prospect.   Both came up around 25.

 

 

But I could care less if Plouffe and Dozier start losing velocity due to the natural decline that comes with a build up of innings and age.

[jimmer]

'Two of the biggest success stores on our team right now are Dozier and Plouffe. I looked at minor league baseballs top prospects from 2009 to 2011 and neither was listed as a top 20 prospect. Both came up around 25.'

 

Yeah, but then again Plouffe was a first round pick who spent the max time he could in the minors before finally sticking by beating out Hughes.  He's finally figured it out and that's great.  I'm not a basher of him, but we shouldn't be like, 'Wow, out of nowhere came Plouffe, what a pleasant surprise' either :-)

Edited April 2, 2015 by jimmer

[tobi0040]

For those saying May and Meyer should have come up last May, I guess we have different standards.  Both of these guys had some issues.  May has always had control issues and came off two consecutive years at AA that was not the least bit impressive.  So 4-5 good starts at AAA is not enough time for me.

 

Meyer would have had exactly 70 IP at AA, then shut down with shoulder issues.  Then 4-5 OK starts at AAA. He has mechanics issues, which has been present from the scouting reports and what I saw this spring.  So as upset as I was, in hindsight I don't think he was ready and needed more time.

[Shane Wahl]

 

I think it depends on the situation.  If one of the starting 5 is injured and goes on the DL, I agree that it will be somebody from Rochester.  On the other hand, if for some reason they need to skip a guy (sickness or can't get loose) then it will be Pelfrey.

 

Not if Pelfrey is pitching an inning at a time in the bullpen. Rochester is going to be full of guys to make spot starts, so it will be May, Meyer, or Wheeler.

[tobi0040]

 

 

'Two of the biggest success stores on our team right now are Dozier and Plouffe. I looked at minor league baseballs top prospects from 2009 to 2011 and neither was listed as a top 20 prospect. Both came up around 25.'

 

Yeah, but then again Plouffe was a first round pick who spent the max time he could in the minors before finally sticking by beating out Hughes.  He's finally figured it out and that's great.  I'm not a basher of him, but we shouldn't be like, 'Wow, out of nowhere came Plouffe, what a pleasant surprise' either :-)

 

I didn't mean to be look at this great surprise.  But players have different trajectories.  Had we brought him up at 21 when he was a struggling AA and AAA SS....I don't think we would have the player we have today.

 

.262/.301/.415     9 HR.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2015 by tobi0040

[jimmer]

 

I didn't mean to be look at this great surprise.  But players have different trajectories.  Had we brought him up at 21 when he was a struggling AA and AAA SS....I don't think we would have the player we have today.

 

.262/.301/.415  9 HR.

If they had realized he couldn't play shortstop a lot earlier and, therefore, moved him to 3rd base earlier, he might have turned out better sooner.

[tobi0040]

 

But I could care less if Plouffe and Dozier start losing velocity due to the natural decline that comes with a build up of innings and age.

 

At a very minimum, a pitcher needs to show some level of command with his fastball. Meyer was auditioning for a spot in the rotation and walked seven batters in 5.2 innings. He was routinely missing the glove by a foot.  It does not matter if he throws 98-99 in that case.  So I think the Twins did what they had to do

[jimmer]

Meyer was auditioning for a spot in the rotation the same way Pridie and Span were auditioning for the CF job in ST 2008 :-) That being, there's no way in heck you're getting this spot.

[tobi0040]

Meyer was auditioning for a spot in the rotation the same way Pridie and Span were auditioning for the CF job in ST 2008 :-) That being, there's no way in heck you're getting this spot.

 

I think the Twins could do a better job communicating that not all races are starting at the same point.  Case and point would be Mike Pelfrey this year.  He would have needed a lot of things to break his way, including likely injuries to make the team.

 

But nobody outside of ChiTownTwinsFan thought Gibson had a shot last year and he proved to them that he was ready.  I think the Twins want Alex Meyer in the rotation.  I think they had serious reservations last year given he was on a pitch count and they would have had to waste a year of service time, but I think he could have forced the issue had been as dominant as he was but more efficient with his pitches. This spring,   I think had he shown he was head and shoulders ahead of Milone and May and had command of the heater I think he would have made the team.

 

We will never know now.   But that is my opinion.

Edited April 2, 2015 by tobi0040

[Squirrel]

 

 

 

But nobody thought Gibson had a shot last year and he proved to them that he was ready.

Actually, not to get way off topic and pat myself in the back, but I called it on Gibson last year. I had a nice discussion with stringer about it while at a ST game, as a matter of fact.

[tobi0040]

 

Actually, not to get way off topic and pat myself in the back, but I called it on Gibson last year. I had a nice discussion with stringer about it while at a ST game, as a matter of fact.

 

I have made the appropriate edit. As my grandma used to say, I stand corrected!

Edited April 2, 2015 by tobi0040

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

But nobody thought Gibson had a shot last year

I think that was just our natural pessimism.  The three guys Gibson had to beat had all been demoted to AAA themselves within the previous 12 months.  And the guy with the least recent AAA demotion (Deduno) was coming off September shoulder surgery and had been outrighted off the 40-man roster the previous offseason too.

 

This spring there was similar natural pessimism about the chances of May and Meyer, but at least it was backed up by at least ~$8 million (the salaries guaranteed Pelfrey and Milone).

Edited April 2, 2015 by spycake

[tobi0040]

 

I think that was just our natural pessimism.  The three guys Gibson had to beat had all been demoted to AAA themselves within the previous 12 months.  And the guy with the least recent AAA demotion (Deduno) was coming off September shoulder surgery and had been outrighted off the 40-man roster the previous offseason too.

 

This spring there was similar natural pessimism about the chances of May and Meyer, but at least it was backed up by at least ~$8 million (the salaries guaranteed Pelfrey and Milone).

 

$8M sounds high, but IMO $5.5M of that was not really a threat.  I think they had Pelf in the pen the whole time. Milone still has an option left....so I think Meyer had a shot. Not an even-steven chance...but his play did determine the outcome to an extent.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't think they were going to option a guy in spring training making $2.8 mil like Milone.  They traded Slowey at that price even though he had an option left.  And I think Pelfrey was the likeliest to go to the pen only because they weren't going to put any of the other competitors there (Milone because he's a bad fit, and May/Meyer because they want them starting).  Which could be part of why Pelfrey was upset -- perhaps he gets the 5th starter job if Milone's repertoire was better suited for relief work.

 

I assume Pelfrey will start again for the Twins this season.  (If I was being Gibson 2014 level pessimistic, I'd assume Stauffer makes a start too. )

Edited April 2, 2015 by spycake

[tobi0040]

 

I don't think they were going to option a guy in spring training making $2.8 mil like Milone.  They traded Slowey at that price even though he had an option left.  And I think Pelfrey was the likeliest to go to the pen only because they weren't going to put any of the other competitors there (Milone because he's a bad fit, and May/Meyer because they want them starting).  Which could be part of why Pelfrey was upset -- perhaps he gets the 5th starter job if Milone's repertoire was better suited for relief work.

 

I assume Pelfrey will start again for the Twins this season.  (If I was being Gibson 2014 level pessimistic, I'd assume Stauffer makes a start too. )

 

I can't rule out a spot start where a guy is a late scratch or a double header.

 

But I think Milone had a head start for the reasons you mentioned.  But I think they want Meyer in the rotation and had he showed he was clearly the bettter pitcher it was his job.  I don't think you trade for Alex Meyer just to keep him in AAA (I know you are not saying that).  But it is up to him now. He needs to show some fastball control.

Edited April 2, 2015 by tobi0040

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

In his final start against the Pirates, May was not as stretched out in comparison to his competition. Over 4.2 innings of work, he threw 33 pitches -- his highest total pitch count of the spring.

Parker: you might want to correct this.  Gameday's pitch-by-pitch recording wasn't working for this game (possibly not for any spring game?).  It was simply showing the minimum possible number of pitches based on the result of each PA (3 for strikeout, 4 for walk, and only 1 for a batted ball), except for the 2 HR which were both 3 pitch PAs.  (It would be pretty remarkable to face 22 batters, with 1 walk and 2 strikeouts, and throw only 33 pitches!)

 

Gameday also reported a pitch count of 35 for Milone the day before, facing 23 batters (5 innings), with 2 walks and 3 strikeouts.

 

(Sorry to dig up an older article, but I just found it when doing a Google search for Trevor May's spring pitch counts.)