Article: Twins Say Now Is Not The Time For Trevor May

[Fargo_Jeffrey]

I haven't seen much talk on when the 5th starter will be needed.  I know that early in the season you can usually skip that 5th starter anyway.  Not that we need to keep May down for more team control but if he isn't going to pitch for the Twins why not continue to stretch him out at AA and actually let him pitch?  

 

Clearly if Meyer or May were ready in the next month we've got a log-jam in the rotation.  I mean is it really a log-jam if Milone, Ricky N or anyone else is falling apart?  I imagine Hughes/Santana are off limits but if Gibson has a bad month is he safe?  Assuming that someone is tearing it up in AAA.  

 

At the same time how much do we put on the staff and how much do we put on the defense?  Especially the outfield defense.  

[curt1965]

It seems to me that this situation might be similar to the one the Twins faced in the early 1980's. They were terrible then, but someone decided they were going to play the prospects, and let them get their feet wet in the major leagues. I'm too lazy to check the exact details ( this is time for one of Doc Bauer's famous stories),but didn't Gaetti, Laudner, Viola, Brunansky, Puckett, and Hrbek get called up at a relatively early age? If memory serves me right, I believe Hrbek was called up from single A. They too had some bad years, but by the late 80's, served as the nucleus for some great teams.

My point is we still don't know if May and Meyer can pitch in the bigs. What happens if Berrios is lights out at Chatanooga?

I'm not saying my example is the right way to go, but it is in stark contrast to the thinking that prevails in the organization right now.

[nater79a]

Take a deep breath everyone...

 

The over/under on number of starters the Twins will need this year is probably around 12. May and Meyer will get their shot.  As well as Pelfrey, Wheeler, Darnell, Berrios, Stauffer. Opening day is just a starting point; things start changing in a hurry after that.

[USAFChief]

I haven't seen much talk on when the 5th starter will be needed.  I know that early in the season you can usually skip that 5th starter anyway.  Not that we need to keep May down for more team control but if he isn't going to pitch for the Twins why not continue to stretch him out at AA and actually let him pitch?  

 

Clearly if Meyer or May were ready in the next month we've got a log-jam in the rotation.  I mean is it really a log-jam if Milone, Ricky N or anyone else is falling apart?  I imagine Hughes/Santana are off limits but if Gibson has a bad month is he safe?  Assuming that someone is tearing it up in AAA.  

 

At the same time how much do we put on the staff and how much do we put on the defense?  Especially the outfield defense.

 

I don't think the Twins will be skipping starts. I don't think that's a common practice in MLB these days. My guess is Milone takes his regular turn every fifth game no matter how off days line up.

[tobi0040]

 

Take a deep breath everyone...

 

The over/under on number of starters the Twins will need this year is probably around 12. May and Meyer will get their shot.  As well as Pelfrey, Wheeler, Darnell, Berrios, Stauffer. Opening day is just a starting point; things start changing in a hurry after that.

 

What if Milone gets 20 starts and May gets 10? 

 

It is really the same concept as having your best hitters towards the front of the order. They will bat more than the 8 and 9th hitters.

 

Maybe the need for a veteran like Livan Hernandez and his 5.48 ERA over 140 IP in 2008 helped cause game 163 that we lost?  Or maybe similar logic caused us to go on the road in the playoffs versus having an additional home game.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2015 by tobi0040

[Kwak]

" Are the Twins Making the Right Decision ? " We will have our answer within two months. My gut, (and history) cries "NO!". The inevitable roster moves, followed by the question "can we really trust these results?". Leading to the off-season between '15 and '16--"What now?" More of the same that we have heard from 2012--"There! I 'fixed' things". Rinse, Lather, Repeat.

Or, "Nuts, this ain't working". "We gotta try something new."

[notoriousgod71]

 

Take a deep breath everyone...

 

The over/under on number of starters the Twins will need this year is probably around 12. May and Meyer will get their shot.  As well as Pelfrey, Wheeler, Darnell, Berrios, Stauffer. Opening day is just a starting point; things start changing in a hurry after that.

 

 

It's around 12 because we are opening up with guys like Milone and will likely give spot starts to Pelfrey and Darnell.

 

We could cut that number down to (gasp) 8 or 9 if we'd just start with May and/or Meyer and not have to deal with Pelfrey and Milone at all.

[Lakeside]

 

Take a deep breath everyone...

 

The over/under on number of starters the Twins will need this year is probably around 12. May and Meyer will get their shot.  As well as Pelfrey, Wheeler, Darnell, Berrios, Stauffer. Opening day is just a starting point; things start changing in a hurry after that.

is i close to the truth. . .I'm guessing we will use about 10 starters by the end of the year.

 

The real number right now is about 45. . . as in $45 million or the amount of guaranteed money owed to Nolasco, Stauffer, and Pelfrey!!

 

I' guessing that number is the real reason we are not going to see Meyer, May, and a different reliever at this time. 

 

My guess is that Stauffer and Pelfrey are being shopped right now.  We will see what happens, but with some patience Meyer, May, and Berrios will be members of the staff by August.

[MisterBill]

The pattern shows exactly what Ryan and Molitor are thinking, and I don't disagree. In both the #5 Starter and the CF positions, they are giving the first shot (And I expect a very short leash) to players who, if they fail, will be moved to other teams- either traded or released.  If Milone doesn't work out quickly, I bet he won't be with the Twins by July.  It the CF platoon doesn't do well enough, at least one of them will be gone by then too.  They need to clear out a logjam of "possible" starting pitchers and outfielders.  If you begin the season with the young guys and they don't start well, you have less options because if you don't bring Malone or Pelf North, you lose them.  If you get rid of the veterans, and the young guys struggle, the tendency is to stick too long with them.  It becomes a confidence issue.  if you older guys struggle, you move on from them...

 

Having said all of that, I have always felt like the Twins were too slow to bring guys up and give them a shot.  Sometimes guys start out hot like Santana and Vargas...

[nicksaviking]

The average age of MLB pitchers is 28.5. 

 

25 is younger than 28.5.

 

25 is young compared to the average.

 

Your point is valid though. May has had plenty of experience and is probably on the older "young" side of things.

I don't like the advanced age of the prospects, but that's really only the overlying issue. As Indiana Jones said, it's not the years honey, it's the milage.

 

May has 775 minor league innings on his arm that we will never get back. It's silly to continue wasting them in Rochester. It certainly seems like the organization thinks they only have to run the counter when they pitch in the majors. They should know better considering how many of their prospects have gone under the knife before they even debuted with the big club.

[MisterBill]

 

Take a deep breath everyone...

 

The over/under on number of starters the Twins will need this year is probably around 12. May and Meyer will get their shot.  As well as Pelfrey, Wheeler, Darnell, Berrios, Stauffer. Opening day is just a starting point; things start changing in a hurry after that.

You are probably right, but for the first time in years, I will take the UNDER and feel pretty good about it.  At least 3 of these guys should make 30+ starts.   I hope.....

 

[Dantes929]

Late start due to flu.   Build up stamina, do well in the minors and he will be back up in May.   This is not a road block.  Its a speed bump.

[Lazarus]

Let May get stretched out in Rochester - don't need to see the bullpen guys in the 3rd inning in April because he's not ready. Once he's stretched out and gets on a roll, then you can make a decision on Milone/Pelfrey/anyone else on the major league staff. He certainly didn't overwhelm anyone in his last start against some real major league hitters - if he had been lights out against the Bucs, I'd feel a little differently. He also didn't overwhelm us in September - good K's but really wasn't that good otherwise against a mix of major leaguers and some September call-up's (slightly better than competition in early Spring Training).

 

I sense that the leashes on the fringe guys on the major league roster will be very short this year and the prospects will be coming up as they show they're ready to come up and be assets to the Twins on an everyday basis. I'm tired of the promotions just being the next warm body but not major league caliber - I'd rather have a roster of major league-ready players in AAA and a couple in AA rather than the lousy situation we've seen the last four seasons. The MLB roster is likely to be very fluid this year.

[ken]

Twins are continuing the youth movement by looking into 35 year old Rafael Soriano. Haven't we drafted about 50 college relief pitchers over the last 3 years that we could have been "fast tracking" but went with the converting them to starters approach?  Really confused on the building process by Terry Ryan,

[h2oface]

 

Take a deep breath everyone...

 

The over/under on number of starters the Twins will need this year is probably around 12. May and Meyer will get their shot.  As well as Pelfrey, Wheeler, Darnell, Berrios, Stauffer. Opening day is just a starting point; things start changing in a hurry after that.

Pelfrey, Darnell, Stauffer...... and that is supposed to be comforting and make one breathe easier?

[h2oface]

 

The pattern shows exactly what Ryan and Molitor are thinking, and I don't disagree. In both the #5 Starter and the CF positions, they are giving the first shot (And I expect a very short leash) to players who, if they fail, will be moved to other teams- either traded or released.  If Milone doesn't work out quickly, I bet he won't be with the Twins by July.  It the CF platoon doesn't do well enough, at least one of them will be gone by then too.  They need to clear out a logjam of "possible" starting pitchers and outfielders.  If you begin the season with the young guys and they don't start well, you have less options because if you don't bring Malone or Pelf North, you lose them.  If you get rid of the veterans, and the young guys struggle, the tendency is to stick too long with them.  It becomes a confidence issue.  if you older guys struggle, you move on from them...

 

Having said all of that, I have always felt like the Twins were too slow to bring guys up and give them a shot.  Sometimes guys start out hot like Santana and Vargas...

The problem is, the Twins have historically just created other log jams when Ryan (or Smith, who was just a Ryan clone with Ryan as his advisor) used this method in the past. The Ponsons and Lambs and Boones and Hernadezes and Walters and Diamonds etc etc etc.... and it just doesn't work. The few prospects/players they finally culture and get to The Show, Ryan has traded for more prospects (like Span for Meyers) just when they are useful, and the team never happens. Folks on this list are always calling for the same thing.... like sell high on Plouffe just as he has become the player fans had always hoped he would. The Marlins cleaned house between the 2012 an 2013 season, took payroll down to 30 million something I think (not sure the number but it was very low)..... and two years later, they are ready to compete. Two years. Terry Ryan may be a nice guy - I don't know and have never met him - but his ship has sailed years ago.

[shs_59]

Why are soo many of you guys acting "suprised" that Milone won the 5th starter job?

 

4 RH starters and 1 LH and 2 RH vying for the 5th spot.....if the lefty floated above water and showed he can throw strikes.....was their any doubt the Twins would not choose him?

 

 

Ever since the Twins chose Hicks in 2013 To start in CF for the Big League Club out of Spring training; When I was CLAIMING not to do so...

 

All these "other" decisions seem so un-important to me.

 

Who really cares?

 

As pelfrey stated We'll {it'll} work itself out.

 

Rosario and one of Meyer or May will be up by the end of May anyway...

[jimmer]

Apparently plenty of people care.  Some feel that when enduring lost and supposedly rebuilding seasons (such as last year and this year), that with having such a highly touted farm system, now is the perfect time to give some younger (and in Meyer's and May's cases, not so young) players time to see what they have.

Edited March 30, 2015 by jimmer

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I care...I bought all the hype!

[jimmer]

 

I care...I bought all the hype!

Even if one hasn't bought into all the hype, I still don't think it's a bad thing to want to see the youngsters play. I think it's fair to questions whether or not Meyer is truly ace material, or even #2 or #3 material, if at 25, he still can't earn a spot on this rotation.  Same thing for May (though May has been less touted).

 

Bright side is, we can keep bragging about how good our farm system is and can be safe in the idea Mauer's contract will be off the books well before any of these studs in waiting are due a significant pay raise.

[Shane Wahl]

 

It's like the Twins brass can't decide if they want to compete now, or build for the future. Because of that, they try to strike a balance between the two, and end up doing neither.

They call up Arcia, Vargas, and Santana, and get production--future

They sign Torii Hunter, despite the fact he worsens an already bad center field--now

They seriously consider Trevor May for the rotation--future

They go with Tommy Milone instead, who was not good last year, and showed no reason to be optimistic for change in spring training--now

I'm getting so tired of this team continually running out tired old veterans with little to no upside, and zero chance of being on the next division-winning team (Hunter, Milone, Robinson, Stauffer). For once, just let kids who might be part of the future play, so we can find out what we actually have.

 

This is probably my favorite post in some time around here!

[Shane Wahl]

Yeah . . . I mean look at this (and I understand the "opening day doesn't really matter" crowd, but there still are 40-man issues, and development issues) . . . . a rebuild with Hunter, Robinson, Milone, Pelfrey, and Stauffer instead of Rosario, Hicks, May, Tonkin, and Oliveros (or two other relievers). 

 

This is why I never really get the idea of "winning more games" and "playing prospects/young guys" being mutually exclusive. At AAA too. The Twins seem to just ram aging veterans from the top down instead of just going with a full youth movement to actually see who the hell is good and worth keeping. Then you just get young guys pissed off and off elsewhere to potentially succeed. This is enough of a problem, but it is only exacerbated by injuries to some key prospects . . . the rebuild gets further and further delayed. Back after 2012, I would have thought 2015 to be the year of certain contention. Now? Does 2017 even make sense for that?

[bird]

 

And neither is Meyer.  Both are 25/26.  Guess the Twins have decided that they can wait a couple more years with both.    

 

Rosario, Polanco, Buxton, May, Meyer all sent down in favor of the Mike Pelfrey's, Tommy Milone's, Shane Robinson's, and other washed up mediocre veterans......yep that's the Twins.  Gotta love it.

First of all, where are we getting the "couple more years stuff?

 

Not a single one of the players you mentioned was sent down because they are too young. The fact that May, or anyone else, is either young or old is irrelevant. Great, a whole bunch of people believe May would help us win more than Milone would in April. Maybe all those people are wrong.

 

We're still in a fluid stage of this rebuild. Yeah, it's easy to say let's just go with the young guy over the old guy. The trouble is, maybe the "young/old" guys, including May and Meyer, would stink up the joint right now. Or maybe not. But it's not like any irreversible decisions are being made on a single one of the more promising prospects mentioned. So let's not get too sold on the thought that Robinson, Milone and Pelfrey are "washed up" and May and Meyer are saviors with expiration stamps and under quarantine for two years. It's a fluid situation and every one of these prospects needs to be thought of separately. 

Edited March 30, 2015 by birdwatcher

[blairpaul715]

 

First of all, where are we getting the "couple more years stuff?

 

Not a single one of the players you mentioned was sent down because they are too young. The fact that May, or anyone else, is either young or old is irrelevant. Great, a whole bunch of people believe May would help us win more than Milone would in April. Maybe all those people are wrong.

 

We're still in a fluid stage of this rebuild. Yeah, it's easy to say let's just go with the young guy over the old guy. The trouble is, maybe the "young/old" guys, including May and Meyer, would stink up the joint right now. Or maybe not. But it's not like any irreversible decisions are being made on a single one of the more promising prospects mentioned. So let's not get too sold on the thought that Robinson, Milone and Pelfrey are "washed up" and May and Meyer are saviors with expiration stamps and under quarantine for two years. It's a fluid situation and every one of these prospects needs to be thought of separately. 

Hi, i dont post much at all, but i like reading everyones posts and opinions, and I will write one here LOL................I dont think it is that May and Meyer are saviors, but people , including myself want to see what we have, and if it dont work out, we can temporarily replace them with someone else from the Minors with potential, and then also there are always guys in the scrap pile(the Pelphreys, Correias , ect ect) that are available short term, if we need that for a last resort.......with that said, i am fairly optimistic that we can be a close to 500 team............On the Hicks front , i was hoping he would make it and succeed, but he has been given his chance and I dont mind if he didnt make it that we went with a possible platoon system, since Buxton should be here in a year or so, and Rosario possibly too. There is my 2 cents

[Oxtung]

Who cares if May isn't stretched out completely? Have Pelfrey/Milone piggy back on his starts to begin the season. So instead of starting a guy for 100 pitches than brining a guy in for 40 just reverse it. Start the guy for 40 and then bring Pelf in for 100. Be "creative".

 

For the "just wait until later in the year," crowd, isn't that what we did last season? How is that helping us now? Instead of figuring out if May and Meyer can handle the workload we have now been forced to punt that down the road and bring in 2 new outside starters in Santana and Milone because we aren't sure what May and Meyer can do. If they never give the youngsters more than 10 starts how will the Twins ever know? It's not like people are arguing to toss Berrios or Stewart out there.

[Jerr]

Old school guy here, let the kids play!

Tired of the saving them for the future, believe in them and let them play

I wonder how long it would have taken to develop Puckett or Hrbek now days

[Shane Wahl]

 

Who cares if May isn't stretched out completely? Have Pelfrey/Milone piggy back on his starts to begin the season. So instead of starting a guy for 100 pitches than brining a guy in for 40 just reverse it. Start the guy for 40 and then bring Pelf in for 100. Be "creative".

For the "just wait until later in the year," crowd, isn't that what we did last season? How is that helping us now? Instead of figuring out if May and Meyer can handle the workload we have now been forced to punt that down the road and bring in 2 new outside starters in Santana and Milone because we aren't sure what May and Meyer can do. If they never give the youngsters more than 10 starts how will the Twins ever know? It's not like people are arguing to toss Berrios or Stewart out there.

 

It would take approximately one start for May to be stretched out!

And yes to your entire second paragraph!!!

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Rosario and one of Meyer or May will be up by the end of May anyway...

With a 5th starter candidate reluctantly placed in the pen, the Twins didn't call up a new SP (non-doubleheader) until game 71 last year.  That would be June 23rd this year.

 

And that was with fantastically bad performance from that spot - 13 starts at 7.08 ERA, AND a long-term injury.  Nolasco lasted with a 5.90 ERA until almost the all-star break before hitting the DL himself, and Correia lasted into August with his 4.94 mark.

 

And to those that think an early-season trade will clear the deck, Kendrys Morales' July 24th trade last year was the EARLIEST we dealt a player in-season from our MLB roster since 2006 when we traded Juan Castro on June 15.  In the TR era, only once has he traded an MLB player before June (Rick Aguilera, May 21, 1999).

 

The Twins have been a little more fluid about replacing position players lately, but almost always they have options (Hicks, Arcia, Florimon).  Players without options invariably seem to last until at least June (Kubel, Tony Batista, the aforementioned Juan Castro, etc.).

[tobi0040]

It isn't 100% about young versus old.  Milone really isn't old.  It is about upside.  Milone's is that of a #5 starter.  I think May has much better potential.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Also, in 2014, 80% of our games started and 82% of our total innings went to pitchers on the opening day roster.  Only 32 starts went to other guys, 265 innings TOTAL between starters and relievers not on the opening day roster.  And that's despite the fact that one of our starters missed virtually the entire season with injury, another spent over a month on the DL, and another was traded with two months remaining.

 

That's why who makes the opening day roster is important.