Article: Milone Making His Case, But Not Making Excuses

[Linus]

Well, one substantial difference here is that a starting pitcher that struggles means you lose the game.  A position player that struggles may not influence the outcome of the game.

[ashbury]

 

...and I thought Perkins would throw too.  No sign of him.  Maybe today in the games at the minor league end.

I rotated through the three games that were going on and I didn't notice him anywhere.

[nicksaviking]

Well, one substantial difference here is that a starting pitcher that struggles means you lose the game.  A position player that struggles may not influence the outcome of the game.

Yes, that's a valid argument for a contending team; weighing "win now" vs "future" is a sticky subject in all team sports.

 

It means jack squat when your team loses 90 games four consecutive years.

[Thrylos]

" Mike Pelfrey is back from elbow surgery and (evidently) finally healthy. And then there's Milone, who might be the most accomplished big-leaguer of the bunch."

 

Nah.  Not really

 

Pelfrey: 9.7 fWAR 5.4 bWAR
Milone: 5.0 fWAR, 3.2 bWAR

[Mike Sixel]

 

" Mike Pelfrey is back from elbow surgery and (evidently) finally healthy. And then there's Milone, who might be the most accomplished big-leaguer of the bunch."

 

Nah.  Not really

 

Pelfrey: 9.7 fWAR 5.4 bWAR
Milone: 5.0 fWAR, 3.2 bWAR

 

You do realize WAR is a cumulative stat, and Pelfrey has been in the majors about twice as long, right?

[nicksaviking]

" Mike Pelfrey is back from elbow surgery and (evidently) finally healthy. And then there's Milone, who might be the most accomplished big-leaguer of the bunch."

 

"Is back from" and "most accomplished" are phrases that show the club is still trying to capitalize on players' past accomplishments, so is giving pitchers in their early 30's four-year deals.

 

I know this front office is eager to see the young players,  but it just always seems they can't help themselves and will always go with experience over potential if both options are available to them, and I don't know why.  The organization's two most successful rebuilds came from a near 100% youth movement. 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2015 by nicksaviking

[Mike Sixel]

I don't think they are eager to see the young players at all. If they were, we'd see them. They clearly are not following either the 87 or 91 path to success, that's true.

[BK432]

I think that we put way too much importance on who is on the 25-man roster for game 1 of the season. Now, if it's Jason Bartlett, I get it, because that guy shouldn't have even been on a 40-man in 2014. But in this situation, I'm not sure it's all that important. I'm pretty sure everyone will get their shot at one point or another. I share the frustration some have in wanting to see Meyer and May at Target Field, but if I take the long view, I'm not sure it matters if it is in April or in June.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think that we put way too much importance on who is on the 25-man roster for game 1 of the season. Now, if it's Jason Bartlett, I get it, because that guy shouldn't have even been on a 40-man in 2014. But in this situation, I'm not sure it's all that important. I'm pretty sure everyone will get their shot at one point or another. I share the frustration some have in wanting to see Meyer and May at Target Field, but if I take the long view, I'm not sure it matters if it is in April or in June.

 

That's what I was told last year, and Meyer never came up at all......not being up means it is less likely you are up. Since, you aren't up.

[jimmer]

'I think that we put way too much importance on who is on the 25-man roster for game 1 of the season.'

 

Back in the old days, the 25 man was less important than nowadays.  After going to 5 man rotations and so many relievers, you run out of bench options quickly.  We should be concerned with every player put on the roster.  MLB should expand active roster to 27 or 28 players. If that happens, then we can be less concerned about who the last player on the bench is.

Edited March 18, 2015 by jimmer

[gunnarthor]

 

That's what I was told last year, and Meyer never came up at all......not being up means it is less likely you are up. Since, you aren't up.

I get what your complaining about and I want Meyer on the opening day roster, too.  But I think your larger point - that the Twins aren't promoting young arms isn't particularly fair.  Until last year, they didn't really have any young arms that were worth promoting.  And May, despite posting a 50 ERA+ and large negative WAR got more starts than Pelfrey or Milone and 6th most on the team.  Certainly, Ryan has created a number of very young rotations in his time, so it's a bit of a stretch to suggest, as some have, that he doesn't understand getting pitchers up quickly.  

 

[Mike Sixel]

We have a whole section on their lack of patience with young arms compared to young hitters. They have young arms right now, and Pelfrey is old and won't be here next year. There is 100% no reason to start him this year. Not for this year, not for the future. 

 

Wasn't Pelfrey hurt last year (I know that thought is shocking), isn't that why May got more starts than Pelfrey? Was Santana here last year (as in, that's one less spot for May or Meyer)?

 

I can only go by the actions I see. I have no idea what is in his head. If Pelfrey is the starter, it will be very hard to understand the actual strategy, at least for me.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm really not sure how anyone can disagree there is a clear philosophical difference in the way this organization promotes hitters vs. pitchers in the last 4-5 years.

[gunnarthor]

 

 

 

I can only go by the actions I see. I have no idea what is in his head. If Pelfrey is the starter, it will be very hard to understand the actual strategy, at least for me.

Well, you can also go by history.  

 

In any event, I think we both want Meyer and let's hope that happens.  We still have a few weeks for trades, injuries and bad play to come into effect.

[Mike Sixel]

True on that. I'm not really complaining, I'm disagreeing with what I see as their approach so far. they can do what they want to do. No real skin off my back either way. It's just sports.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

They have young arms right now, and Pelfrey is old and won't be here next year.

Can a person even be absolutely sure about that anymore?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Can a person even be absolutely sure about that anymore?

 

I knew I should have stopped reading this thread. No my head hurts just thinking about the implications of what you just typed......I was pretty sure last time!

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I knew I should have stopped reading this thread. No my head hurts just thinking about the implications of what you just typed......I was pretty sure last time!

Sorry 'bout that

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'm ok (I suppose) with Milone winning the spot. But that comes with the real possibility of Meyer and May being packed back to Rochester. Hard to get excited about that idea. Those guys could use the MLB appearances. Like others have said, the wear on the arm is the same, whether they're throwing a pitch in AAA or MLB.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

And May, despite posting a 50 ERA+ and large negative WAR got more starts than Pelfrey or Milone and 6th most on the team.  

This was a choice?  The Twins couldn't have given May's 2014 starts to Pelfrey if they had wanted to, ditto for Milone.  (They COULD have given Pelfrey's starts to May, however.)

 

The Twins "invested" 49 starts in 2014 -- 30% of their season! -- in pitchers who were no longer with the club by December and returned zero value upon their exit (except nominal cash and a waiver fee).

[Kwak]

Some time ago I posted that if neither May or Meyer were in the rotation, what does that say about Ryan's "trades"? The OF was gutted of CFers for minor league pitchers.  If these two can't make the rotation because "value-priced" veterans exist, why make the trades? It wasn't like Span and Revere were some overpriced, over-the-hill OFers (like Hunter)?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Some time ago I posted that if neither May or Meyer were in the rotation, what does that say about Ryan's "trades"? The OF was gutted of CFers for minor league pitchers.  If these two can't make the rotation because "value-priced" veterans exist, why make the trades? It wasn't like Span and Revere were some overpriced, over-the-hill OFers (like Hunter)?

 

some will say "just wait, it will be worth it". In the meantime, the team has so far gone 2 years without a CF.......that has a cost (in wins, and ticket sales). Those losses can never be recovered. They happened.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm not sure that the roster should be constructed based on the fact that they acquired Meyer and May in a trade. Though personally, I'm on the May bandwagon (not for that reason, as I think he is the guy that will likely perform best over the course of the season).

 

I have to think though that if everyone stays healthy that at least one of Pelf/Millone won't be in the Twins organization come opening day. There are tons of teams who could use a 5th starter that would happily trade some international bonus dollars for one of those guys, and I have to think that Ryan would jump on it if they did.

[ashbury]

 

I'm not sure that the roster should be constructed based on the fact that they acquired Meyer and May in a trade.

I agree it shouldn't dominate any decisions. OTOH the GM is responsible for the overall health of the franchise, and fans do like for a team to "win" its major trades. Nothing wrong in my view with doing what you can to make sure the trades you make do go your way. It's a factor (again) in the context of the general good of the team. I would guess either Meyer or May succeeding would put more fans in seats than some of the other options succeeding. Baseball being a business, that has to count. But no, I wouldn't "construct" a roster "based on" trades, either.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I'm really not sure how anyone can disagree there is a clear philosophical difference in the way this organization promotes hitters vs. pitchers in the last 4-5 years.

It will be interesting to see how Berrios and to a lesser extent, Stewart and Thorpe, progress through the system. Do the Twins truly have a philosophical issue with promoting pitchers or is there something they don't like about May and Meyer?

 

When dealing with such small data sizes, it's hard to really say... Though there certainly appears to be a philosophical difference between hitters and pitchers.