Article: Where Will Miguel Sano Play?

[jimmer]

So the scouts and the coaches who see real issues with his defense are ALL wrong?  That would be interesting.  

 

Braun, with as great of an offensive rookie season he had, was so bad at 3B that he kept getting replaced in late innings and then was moved to the OF after his rookie season. Still a very valuable player but the Brewers knew what had to be done.

 

On the flip-side, teams kept Reynolds too long at 3B, so between his horrible defense and the strikeouts, the HR and RBI couldn't sway people to believe he was great.

 

If Sano is that bad on defense at 3B, and he could be, I hope the Twins move him to a corner OF spot.

Edited March 5, 2015 by jimmer

[Sanjay Wolowitz]

In my opinion, Plouffe being at 3B is a bigger reason that he won't come up as a 3B than his weight is.

 

If Trevor Plouffe is the reason Miguel Sano isn't playing 3B at Target Field by April 15th, there's probably no reason to to watch the Twins this year.

 

Put it this way, 2014 really needs to be to Trevor Plouffe what 1988 was to Henry Cotto.  Not that Plouffe is a bad player, he's far from bad.  It's just that the guy who is coming up behind him has a very real chance to be special.  There's nobody on the roster that should keep a guy like Sano down.

[Seth Stohs]

If Trevor Plouffe is the reason Miguel Sano isn't playing 3B at Target Field by April 15th, there's probably no reason to to watch the Twins this year.

 

Put it this way, 2014 really needs to be to Trevor Plouffe what 1988 was to Henry Cotto.  Not that Plouffe is a bad player, he's far from bad.  It's just that the guy who is coming up behind him has a very real chance to be special.  There's nobody on the roster that should keep a guy like Sano down.

 

I'm just saying that they may want to keep both of them and determine that what is best for the Twins is to keep Plouffe at 3B and maybe Sano elsewhere. .Just that we don't know what situation is going to present itself. 

[Hamels]

Is there some sort of rule or reason Mauer can't play 3B and put Vargas at 1B? Maybe a question of handedness, I don't know.

People talk about how much of a great athlete Joe is, as shown in his defensive adjustments to 1B. He could probably fake it just as well at third. He can also throw across the diamond, given his history of doing it from his knees.

I'm just looking at it as Vargas > Mauer > Plouffe. So ditch the worst guy, shift the middle guy to that hole, and make room for the big guy. 

[kab21]

Why are people so insistent to rag on the poor (or dreadful in their words) OF defense but willing to overlook the impact of Sano's poor defense?  His bat plays everywhere and is potentially elite everywhere.

[jimmer]

'I''m just looking at it as Vargas > Mauer > Plouffe. So ditch the worst guy, shift the middle guy to that hole, and make room for the big guy.'

 

Wow, the positionless Vargas in his 1/3 of a MLB season, is already better than Mauer?

 

Mauer has an off year after a concussion.  The season before he had a wRC+ in the 140s. Vargas (who is pure DH material) and his wRC+ of a 114 is already better than Mauer who nornally sits in the 130-140 area for wRC+ and can play some defense? And better than Plouffe, who can actually play a position and has comparable offense?

 

Anyone remember Parmellee's first time in teh majors?

Edited March 5, 2015 by jimmer

[shs_59]

I think trading Trevor Plouffe is a bad idea, somewhat based on my assumption that we won't get great value for him.

 

If Dozier is extended for 40-50 million. And we Trade Plouffe away within the next 12 months on the cheap.

 

I think it would be a mistake.

 

2 and 3 years from now theres a more than decent chance, regardless of position...that plouffe still

 

Plouffe > Dozier  > Nunez, Escobar , Rosario , and pretty much all of our OF'ers besides Buxton

 

I mean Sano, Buxton and Polanco would be the only guys i think are ahead of Plouffe come 2017-2018.

As far as postional guys go.  (I guess maybe Mauer as well)

 

Arcia could look like a young budding star by this time next year, or a guy who may need to sit in AAA and figure things out if he expects to ever make a real impact. 

 

At least we essentially know what we're getting with Plouffe. Arcia and many of the others we do not yet.

[ScrapTheNickname]

If Mauer can return to being a good hitter (OPS in the mid to high 800s), we'll have a great problem on our hands. If the 2014 Mauer is the Mauer of the future, he could really muck things up. Long-term, I'd rather see Sano or Mauer in the outfield than Arcia. If Mauer doesn't improve, I think the Twins have to face up to future without him. Sano must have the athleticism to adjust to the outfield.

I have come around to believing Mauer is going to be moved to the outfield. There may be no chatter about this from The Twins but they resisted for years any mention of any possibility of moving him to first base, too.

[Hamels]

'I''m just looking at it as Vargas > Mauer > Plouffe. So ditch the worst guy, shift the middle guy to that hole, and make room for the big guy.'

 

Wow, the positionless Vargas in his 1/3 of a MLB season, is already better than Mauer?

 

Mauer has an off year after a concussion.  The season before he had a wRC+ in the 140s. Vargas (who is pure DH material) and his wRC+ of a 114 is already better than Mauer who nornally sits in the 130-140 area for wRC+ and can play some defense? And better than Plouffe, who can actually play a position and has comparable offense?

 

Anyone remember Parmellee's first time in teh majors?

I guess I was less concerned about the actual comparisons, and more concerned with my question about if there are reasons Joe Mauer can't play 3B. It just seems like that doesn't really come up in the conversation about alternatives.

[Shane Wahl]

2016 starting lineup:

 

Byron Buxton, CF

Joe Mauer (back and at 'em), 1B

Miguel Sano, 3B

Oswaldo Arcia, LF or RF

Kennys Vargas, 1B

Brian Dozier, 2B

Josmil Pinto, C

Aaron Hicks, RF or LF

Danny Santana, SS

[AlwaysinModeration]

They can't field ten players. But I like seeing Hicks there.

[nytwinsfan]

2016 starting lineup:

 

Byron Buxton, CF

Joe Mauer (back and at 'em), 1B

Miguel Sano, 3B

Oswaldo Arcia, LF or RF

Kennys Vargas, 1B

Brian Dozier, 2B

Josmil Pinto, C

Aaron Hicks, RF or LF

Danny Santana, SS

Agreed. My only qualifications would be that there is a good chance someone else (Rosario, Kepler, or FA) is going to be batting in Hicks' spot against most right-handed pitchers, and there is a chance Polanco will have replaced Santana, and Santana will have become a super-utility guy.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm not sure I agree that Sano should be starting over Plouffe right now. I think that's coming (probably next year), but I do think there's merit to letting 2015 play itself out. If Plouffe is traded, he won't be traded on the cheap. He's a pretty valuable 3B right now.

 

On the other side, what is the average OPS of a 3B right now? I seem to remember it being in the low .700s. That's the price you pay moving Sano off of 3rd to DH where that average OPS is much higher. Can Sano still be a star in that role? Sure. But if he can play reasonably competent defense, his bat is still far more valuable at 3rd.

 

Mauer to the OF... I wouldn't be surprised if that's tried this year. I wouldn't mind seeing him get some reps there. If he can cover some ground, that might solve a few of these issues.

[Platoon]

If you only consider who would be the best of these 3, Mauer, Plouffe, or Sano in a corner OF spot, it would be Mauer hands down. He likely does not run as well as Sano, but I bet he can go get a fly ball, and I have no doubt his arm would be quite suited to RF. This does not mean I advocate such a move for any of them. It would just be the lesser of three evils!

[Platoon]

A few exact height and weight NFL athletic freak comps, for athletic comparison. Figured bringing in a little football makes sense since we can see easier what one can do athletically on the FB field. 

 

#40-  Brian Orakpo

Outside Linebacker, Washington Redskins6'4, 260 lbs.

Feat of Strength/Workout: 31 reps of 225 lb. bench press, 515 lb. bench press, 380 lb. power-clean, 4.63 sec. 40 time, 39.5" vertical leap

 

#35-  Connor Barwin

Outside Linebacker, Houston Texans6'4, 260 lbs.

Feat of Strength/Workout: 40.5" vertical leap

 

............

 

On the other hand, James Winston was rumored to be out of shape, and was 6'4'' and 231 at the combine, but was probably heavier leading up to it. That is 30 pounds lighter and was considered out of shape.

 

Several NFL players with similar heights and weights playing TE, FB, DE, ILB, and OLB. I know Sano doesn't play in the NFL, but just trying to give an easy comp to look at what guys that size are capable of. 

 

6'4'' and 260 could be a freak OLB or TE, or 6'4'' and 260 could be the catcher on your beer league softball team who always gets a pinch runner. 

 

 

It could be this guy......

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x83/ryanf1990/21fz2.jpg?t=1192966861

 

 

or.....

 

it can be this guy.....

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z35/morningbake34/week33.jpg

I don't remeber giving you permission to use my picture on here! .

[Thrylos]

2016 starting lineup:

 

Byron Buxton, CF

Joe Mauer (back and at 'em), 1B

Miguel Sano, 3B

Oswaldo Arcia, LF or RF

Kennys Vargas, 1B

Brian Dozier, 2B

Josmil Pinto, C

Aaron Hicks, RF or LF

Danny Santana, SS

 

sub Danny Santana with Jorge Polanco, move him to the second spot, move every one else down a bit and we might have a deal

[Thrylos]

I think people will be saying different things about Sano's defense when they actually see him playing in MLB games.  And I think it will be an overreaction at that point but I completely expect the analysis to change.

 

Sano doesn't lose much value by moving off of 3B.  He has huge potential due to his bat at any position.  Playing a bad 3B isn't the boost to make him an all-star level player.

 

 

Here is the thing (a couple of things actually) :

 

a. Third base is a new position, he is learning and he has been improving. 

b. Moving some place else because of his "bad defense", would be willing to have him learn yet another position (and potentially be a worse fielder there than at third) in the majors?

[Halsey Hall]

Plouffe played a bad third base for a couple years and still is not very good.  I just may keep track of the errors I see this year that he isn't credited for.  The Twins put up with this. 

 

Sano plays decent at the corner, works hard and just keeps getting better.  He should stick at that position.  He hasn't played for over a year, so when he gets back into the routine and ready, bring him up and play him everyday. 

[Halsey Hall]

I was all for Mauer moving to 3rd base last year, he could do it and has taken plenty of reps there.  But there's a reason he didn't, and that reason is not named Plouffe. 

[tobi0040]

Plouffe played a bad third base for a couple years and still is not very good.  I just may keep track of the errors I see this year that he isn't credited for.  The Twins put up with this. 

 

Sano plays decent at the corner, works hard and just keeps getting better.  He should stick at that position.  He hasn't played for over a year, so when he gets back into the routine and ready, bring him up and play him everyday. 

 

I am curious what metric you are using to conclude Plouffe is “not very good” at 3B?

 

His range factor was 6th. His DWAR was 12th. 10th in double plays turned.  4th in put outs. And 14th in fielding percentage.  I am not going to argue that MLB is pretty conservative in the manner in which they assign errors,  I just don't see how that was limited to Plouffe.

 

Add in that he was 13th in OPS and 9th in overall WAR.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/3b

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/range_factor_per_nine_3b_top_ten.shtml

[nytwinsfan]

I am curious what metric you are using to conclude Plouffe is “not very good” at 3B?

 

His range factor was 6th. His DWAR was 12th. 10th in double plays turned.  4th in put outs. And 14th in fielding percentage.  I am not going to argue that MLB is pretty conservative in the manner in which they assign errors,  I just don't see how that was limited to Plouffe.

 

Add in that he was 13th in OPS and 9th in overall WAR.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/3b

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/range_factor_per_nine_3b_top_ten.shtml

 

I definitely agree that Plouffe was "very good", but only for the past year. If he continues to play at the level he played last year, then great! All the better the return we will get when we trade him!

[tobi0040]

2016 starting lineup:

 

Byron Buxton, CF

Joe Mauer (back and at 'em), 1B

Miguel Sano, 3B

Oswaldo Arcia, LF or RF

Kennys Vargas, 1B

Brian Dozier, 2B

Josmil Pinto, C

Aaron Hicks, RF or LF

Danny Santana, SS

 

Guessing you meant Vargas at DH.  I think Rosario takes Hicks spot and the catcher will probably still be Suzuki.  I don't think they will tolerate Pinto

[kab21]

Here is the thing (a couple of things actually) :

 

a. Third base is a new position, he is learning and he has been improving. 

b. Moving some place else because of his "bad defense", would be willing to have him learn yet another position (and potentially be a worse fielder there than at third) in the majors?

 

How is 3B a new position?  He might have played a little SS his first US season but he's been at 3B basically his entire MiLB career (a short one). 

 

He might not play the new position well but it's a position of less damage.  3B is pretty important defensively.

[hybridbear]

nytwinsfan, on 03 Mar 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

Umm, can they tell him if he wants to play in the majors this year, he needs to lose 15 pounds? Even if that isn't entirely true, can't they tell him that? I understand he is an adult, and can do what he wants, and also that they don't want to create animostity, but the reality is, his value to the team (and the money he will make in the medium run) is significantly less if he has to move to 1B, corner outfield, or DH. Someone he respects/trusts needs to sit down with him an have a conversation. It seems like he's still under the impression he is going to be playing third, so maybe before any threats about playing time/call ups, they need to give him an honest if harsh wake up call so he fully understands he can't stay at 3B at 260 pounds. There really is nowhere else for him to go without moving Mauer, Vargas or Arcia. We just can't have an outfield with Arcia and Sano.

I agree. His comments point to a potential attitude problem. I hope the Twins can fix this.

[bird]

What is Torii Hunter going to do?  Throw a punch at him?  I think people are over estimating the effect Torii can have on this team, and will be disappointed when he isn't the clubhouse fix it all guy.

 

No, you got it all wrong. Torii's going to give an honest answer when Sano pulls his baseball pants on and asks "does my butt look big in this?"

[bird]

Funny, I thought this would be about AA vs AAA.......

 

I think he's a 3B until he proves he's not. Plouffe will either be traded, or moved to the OF. But, I've been wrong before.

I agree with your last sentence, mike.

[TRex]

I agree. His comments point to a potential attitude problem. I hope the Twins can fix this.

How can you impute his motive on this? He is a gregarious young man giving an interview in a language he is not fluent in. How many of us, if asked to comment on our size in Spanish, wouldn't reply with a similar statement? While his size/weight are undeniable, suggesting he has a bad attitude or is unwilling to work on his nutritional habits seems unfounded at this point.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

I don't remeber giving you permission to use my picture on here! .

I am sorry Mr. Urlacher.

[Dave T]

I think Sano will be just fine at 3B, after he has a chance to get back into shape.  This is a guy who really needs another year in the minors to work on his defense.

[Halsey Hall]

I think Sano will be just fine at 3B, after he has a chance to get back into shape.  This is a guy who really needs another year in the minors to work on his defense.

Have you seen him play?  I have and don't think his defense needs work.  I'd rather see him up than down and break a thumb or something a month into the season.