Article: One Man's Opinion: Tovar Snubbed Again

[Seth Stohs]

On Friday, Twins President Dave St. Peter announced that no players will be inducted into the Twins Hall of Fame in 2015. It is the first time since they started doing this in 2000. He said that no player reached 60% of the vote. Though he was said to be close, Cesar Tovar was again snubbed.A case could be made that Tovar is the most underrated player in Minnesota Twins history, something this announcement confirms, at least in my mind.

 

Always referred to as a utility player, Tovar played in 1,090 games for the Minnesota Twins between 1965 and 1972. Though he did play all over the field, literally every position in one game in 1968, he was an everyday player for much of his career. In fact, in 1967, he led the league by playing in 164 games.

He had over 4,000 at-bats in a Twins uniform and hit a combined .281/.337/.377 (.714). He hit 193 doubles, 45 triples and 38 home runs. He also stole 186 bases.

 

He received MVP votes each year from 1967 through 1971, including a top 10 finish in 1967 when he received one first-place vote, from a Minneapolis writer,

of course. I would argue that his best season in a Twins uniform came in 1970 when he hit .300/.356/.442 (.798) with 36 doubles, 13 triples, 10 home runs and 54 RBI. He also stole 30 bases.

 

The native of Caracas, Venezuela, signed with the Cincinnati Reds in 1959. He never reached the big leagues with the Reds. In December of 1964, the Twins acquired him in a trade for Gerry Arrigo. Tovar remained with the organization until after the 1972 season when he was traded to the Philadelphia Phillies in exchange for three players. He spent time with the Rangers, A’s and Yankees before retiring following the 1976 season. He actually continued to play (and coach some) in the Venezuelan Winter League until 1985 at the age of 45.

 

He passed away in 1994 from pancreatic cancer at the age of 54.

 

His overall stats don’t jump out, but his role on some great Twins teams (’65, ’67, ’69, ’70) cannot be disputed. He was highly respected in his time. Honestly,it is time for the Twins to honor him with induction into their Hall of Fame.

 

Dan Gladden and Mudcat Grant were also said to be close, but Tovar needs to be next.

 

Click here to view the article

[Squirrel]

This is a shame, imo.

[Craig Arko]

Agree 100%. Pepe was great.

[CesarTovar]

My first mitt as a youth was a Cesar Tovar autographed model.  Since then, and for the way he played, he has been my favorite all-time Twin.  Rugged, versatile, talented, always a great attitude when with the Twins.  And he played all 9 positions in one game.  I still wear #12 whenever I can.

[Steven Buhr]

Could not possibly agree more. There's no excuse for Tovar not being in the Twins HoF long before several guys who are already there. Inexcusable.

[Dantes929]

I don't know.   I really liked Tovar but most of his time was spent in the outfield and I don't know that that much emphasis should be placed on versatility.   Shane Mack was a much better player and should go in before Tovar and definitely before Gladden.

[Jerr]

Tovar was versatile, but no to Twin's Hall of Fame, for my vote.

[brvama]

Outside of Tony O, Tovar was my favorite player. He was a very valuable part of the Twins during that time. Certainly a different time. He deserves the Twins HOF before Mack or Gladden and even Mudcat. Hoping next year is the charm.

[VATwinsFan]

Another old-timer may need to correct me, but I seem to recall that in 1965 Tovar almost missed the home opener at the Met because of massive flooding from the spring thaw that took out all kinds of roads. They had to fly him in by helicopter.

 

In any event, Tovar was a critical part of the Twins between 1967 and 1971 and should be in the Twins HOF.

Edited January 24, 2015 by VATwinsFan

[glunn]

With season ticket sales down, it seems to me that not honoring Tovar is a huge mistake.

 

Tovar is one of my all-time favorite players and I think that he should be honored before more of his fans get too old (or dead) to celebrate his contributions, including playing all 9 positions in one game.

[Dantes929]

Outside of Tony O, Tovar was my favorite player. He was a very valuable part of the Twins during that time. Certainly a different time. He deserves the Twins HOF before Mack or Gladden and even Mudcat. Hoping next year is the charm.

How is he more deserving?   He played 8 seasons to Macks 5 but Mack's stats are way better and was key element to WS championship.   Mack OPS .854 to Tovar's  .714.   Again, I was a big fan of Tovar's but playing all the different positions is just a novlety.   Explain how Tovar was better than Mack.  I am willing to be convinced.

[glunn]

How is he more deserving?   He played 8 seasons to Macks 5 but Mack's stats are way better and was key element to WS championship.   Mack OPS .854 to Tovar's  .714.   Again, I was a big fan of Tovar's but playing all the different positions is just a novlety.   Explain how Tovar was better than Mack.  I am willing to be convinced.

 

I think that they are both deserving.  But could Mack play all 9 positions in one game?  Mack is deserving, but Tovar was almost magical in that one game.  I will start a petition for Mack if you will start one for Tovar.  The Tovar fans are dying off and it would brighten our lives if Tovar made it.

[Dantes929]

Lol glunn.   I am old enough to have seen Tovar play and I liked him a lot.  He just seemed to have a lot of energy and magnetism.    You know, I just threw Shane Mack out there for discussion purposes because I always thought he was underrated and under appreciated.    Then I started looking at stats and realized he was really under appreciated and grossly underrated..   His OPS as a Twins was better than Puckett', better than Hrbek, better than Oliva, better than Allison, better than Carew,better than Battey, better than Gaetti, better than Gagne.   That's right!  In 5 seasons for the Twins Mack had a better OPS than every Twin in the Twins HOF except for Killebrew.    He also had a better OPS than Morneau.    As far as I can tell, with a minimum of 5 seasons he trailed only Killebrew and Mauer in the history of the franchise.       He was having a monster season in 1994 that was cut short by the strike and then Japan offered him a ton of money and he went with it.   Hardly his fault the players and owners got greedy.   

Edited January 24, 2015 by Dantes929

[glunn]

Who votes on the Twins HOF?  Maybe we could influence them for next year?  

[Craig Arko]

Who votes on the Twins HOF?  Maybe we could influence them for next year?

 

Tovargate.

[Seth Stohs]

I think that they are both deserving.  But could Mack play all 9 positions in one game?  Mack is deserving, but Tovar was almost magical in that one game.  I will start a petition for Mack if you will start one for Tovar.  The Tovar fans are dying off and it would brighten our lives if Tovar made it.

 

 

I agree that I think they're both deserving... I definitely do NOT think that Tovar should be in because he played 9 positions in one game. I think he's deserving because of the value and role he brought to very strong Twins teams for 6-7 years and because of how he was viewed nationally and locally at the time. He had some years where he didn't hit a lot, but he had some very good year and was such a valuable piece.

 

But yes, I think that Mack should be in too. His offensive numbers for those 5 years were as good as almost every other outfielder in the AL at that time. IT was on part with Puckett. The only one better was probably Griffey.

 

The point is that there are candidates who are deserving. 

[glunn]

I agree that I think they're both deserving... I definitely do NOT think that Tovar should be in because he played 9 positions in one game. I think he's deserving because of the value and role he brought to very strong Twins teams for 6-7 years and because of how he was viewed nationally and locally at the time. He had some years where he didn't hit a lot, but he had some very good year and was such a valuable piece.

 

But yes, I think that Mack should be in too. His offensive numbers for those 5 years were as good as almost every other outfielder in the AL at that time. IT was on part with Puckett. The only one better was probably Griffey.

 

The point is that there are candidates who are deserving. 

Seth, is there anything that we can do to try to influence this?

[Rosterman]

The Twins Hall of Fame is basically a public relations move for the team, and not honoring anyone...even some front office or maybe a Wayne Hattaway longtime minor league guy, pretty much makes the concept even more outrageous, especially coming off the Chuck Knoblauch fiasco. When you look at the near 700 or so Twins, you can easily find one person, especially when you expand it out to front office, field personnel and the like. 

 

Anyone for Jerry Zimmerman!?!

[Thrylos]

My opinion is that the Twins HOF should begin with Walter Johnson, Goose Goslin and Sam Rice.  Even Knoblauch is more deserving for it than Tovar.  And if Walter Johnson is not in it, I cannot make any case for anyone else to be in it.

[ashbury]

My opinion is that the Twins HOF should begin with Walter Johnson, Goose Goslin and Sam Rice.  Even Knoblauch is more deserving for it than Tovar.  And if Walter Johnson is not in it, I cannot make any case for anyone else to be in it.

By coincidence, someone asked me just today, "Do Twins fans even consider the old Senators when talking about the history of the franchise?".  I basically snickered and said "nooooooo".  Your post reminds me that not even the Twins organization itself acknowledges that part of their history in this way.

[Thrylos]

By coincidence, someone asked me just today, "Do Twins fans even consider the old Senators when talking about the history of the franchise?".  I basically snickered and said "nooooooo".  Your post reminds me that not even the Twins organization itself acknowledges that part of their history in this way.

 

Yes and this is a disgusting practice.  Griffith made it clear that when the team moved the whole history moved.  Now the closed-minded people who are running the Twins have them wear Giants' minor league team uniforms instead of Senator uniforms just because they happened to be located where the Twins are currently located.   Like there are no Twins' fans outside of Minnesota or the whole franchise is tied to Minnesota.  Pretty arrogant and historically incorrect position IMO, esp. since the franchise has been one of the founding of the AL... 

Edited January 25, 2015 by Thrylos

[Steven Buhr]

I've never understood the organization's near-total disregard for the Senators era of their history. Makes no sense at all.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Steven BUHR

[stringer bell]

Regarding the relative value of Mack and Tovar, they played in different eras.  Mack played in the early steroids era when home runs and offense soared.  Whereas, Tovar played at the peak of a pitching era where Bob Gibson had a 1.12 ERA and Denny McLain won 30 games. Five years vs. eight matters as well and the Twins of Tovar's era were contenders more often than not while the Twins had only two years of relevance during Mack's tenure.  As a teenager, it seemed like Tovar was a Twin forever, as a grown-up and dad, it seemed like Mack was with the Twins a short time.  Versatility does matter.  I agree that the stunt of playing all nine positions shouldn't matter at all, but Pepé was versatile, playing a lot of third, some second and short and all three outfield positions.  He also had personality, whereas Mack was among the quietest and most reserved players in his era.   

[stringer bell]

The Twins changed the name of their team when they moved to Minnesota.  The Dodgers stayed the Dodgers, the Giants stayed the Giants, so it kind of figures that they don't emphasize their Washington roots.  Also, the Senators were perennial losers and when the Twins moved, they wanted to make a break from that history.  When Calvin sold the club, the connection with Washington was pretty much severed. 

 

I agree that the Twins should recognize their Washington history, but it isn't easy to consider the first 60 years of the last century exactly the same as the last 54 years that they have been in Minnesota.

[Dantes929]

Ok Stringer.  What you said makes sense.   No doubt the game was different.   However Mack was there 5 years which did include a WS win and was cut short in his best season through no fault of his own.   Yes, it was the start of the steroids era and Mack's OPS was still better than Hrbek, Puckett, Knoblach and Morneau.    It was WAY better than Tovars or Allisons.   I agree personality had a lot to do with it.  Just not sure it should.   I really would not object to Tovar being in.    I saw him play and he was one of my favorites.    I don't really think he was underappreciated .   Just not sure he was quite good enough.

[glunn]

For those of us who have fond memories of Tovar:

 

http://www.startribune.com/sports/96934744.html

 

A few excerpts:

 

"As the starting Twins pitcher, he faced four batters, getting Bert Campaneris and Sal Bando on pop fouls, walking Danny Carter, and striking out Reggie Jackson on a screwball. Campaneris is the other major leaguer who has played all nine positions.

 

Tovar delighted the crowd of 11,340 with double and triple pumps. His fancy motion cost him a balk call with a man on base, but his earned run average of 0.00 is the lowest in Twins history."

 

"Tovar was equally outstanding offensively, where he had a single, scored the Twins' first run and stole his 33rd base, a team record."

 

BTW, the Twins won the game 2 to 1 and rewarded Tovar with a color TV.  

[Pius Jefferson]

By coincidence, someone asked me just today, "Do Twins fans even consider the old Senators when talking about the history of the franchise?".  I basically snickered and said "nooooooo".  Your post reminds me that not even the Twins organization itself acknowledges that part of their history in this way.

 

I wonder how many times fans A)even know they came from Washington and B)it's the same franchise? 

[ThejacKmp]

Dan Gladden does not belong in the Twins HOF. 

 

You know which regular player had the lowest OPS on the 1991 Twins?  Its not Gagne, it's Gladden.  Gladden's HIGHEST OPS+ during his time with the Twins was 103, meaning he was an average MLB left fielder in his best year.  In our glorious 1987 World Series year it was 76 - meaning he was 25% worse than an average left fielder.  For comparison, last year Aaron Hicks had an OPS+ of 76.  Jason Kubel's was 73 and he got cut the first week of June. 

 

Three of his five seasons with the Twins, Gladden couldn't break .700 in OPS.  You know how many of the Twins regular players can say the same from 2014?  Zero.  That's right.  Every regular on the Twins fairly dismal last place team had a better season than Gladden mustered in those three seasons.  And even Gladden at his finest (.741 OPS) is worse than 7 of the 9 Twins regulars. 

If Gladden gets in it will because he was "hardworking" and because he is an announcer.  We need to stop.  Retiring Bert's number was foolish enough (and cheapens what great players Killebrew, Oliva and Puckett accomplished) but putting Danny Gladden in the Twins HOF because he managed to catch on as the announcer is absolutely ridiculous.  We might as well place Marney Gellner in the Twins HOF while we're at it.  She deserves it more.

[stringer bell]

Agree 100% on Gladden and besides that he's not a good announcer, especially on PBP. I didn't (and don't) have a problem with a Hall of Famer who spent the majority of his career with the Twins getting his number retired, but the other side of it is I wouldn't have a problem if he didn't. Let's just hold off on Twins' HOF for a few years until Johan, Morneau, Torii, Cuddy and Radke can be inducted (Radke's not in yet is he?).

[jimmer]

Agree 100% on Gladden and besides that he's not a good announcer, especially on PBP. I didn't (and don't) have a problem with a Hall of Famer who spent the majority of his career with the Twins getting his number retired, but the other side of it is I wouldn't have a problem if he didn't. Let's just hold off on Twins' HOF for a few years until Johan, Morneau, Torii, Cuddy and Radke can be inducted (Radke's not in yet is he?).

Radke is.  I noticed no Mauer in your list.

Edited January 26, 2015 by jimmer