Torii Hunter Calls Reporter A "Prick" At Press Conference

[Secondary User]

And as for Souhan, Rosen, et al being on Hunter's side, I can not stress enough reading THIS ARTICLE if you want to understand why Hunter lashed out at him and why some have such an issue with calling him a leader.  Here's a couple of the key points

 

 

 

But I can’t get past that “clubhouse gem” line. Hunter is almost always described this way. As one of the best guys in the game. But you’ll notice that the people who describe him that way are all in the media.

There’s a good reason for this: Hunter is famously accommodating and pleasant with the media. He gives great interviews, is always available and eschews athlete cliches. And it’s more than just giving pithy quotes. He says funny and interesting stuff that is also illuminating. I can’t imagine a player I’d want on a team I was covering more than Hunter because he would make my job way easier.

 

....

 

But I can’t think of any other major leaguer who has had these sorts of dustups who is so consistently called a great clubhouse guy, wonderful person, etc. The media usually kills guys who have had way fewer controversies about them than Hunter has had. Guys who have issues with teammates, who talk out of turn about them, who say controversial things about race and the like are usually treated like problems or head cases or high-maintenance guys. Not Hunter. He is not just immune to this, he is actually held above almost all other players in the deportment department by the media which covers him.

[stringer bell]

The comment immediately above summarizes what I see and lays it out better than I ever could.  Look up "media darling" somewhere and Torii's picture should be there.  That doesn't mean he hasn't been a good player (he has), but his popularity is greater with the media than everyone else.  Torii would be a fascinating person to get to know and he is a great example to younger players, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a "great clubhouse guy" or will be a great mentor.

[JB_Iowa]

Torii Hunter ‏@toriihunter48  · 54m54 minutes ago 
Talked to @MikeBerardino and we have settled our differences. Looking forward to working with him in the future.

 

Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino  · 12m12 minutes ago 
Same here "@toriihunter48: Talked to @MikeBerardino and we have settled our differences. Looking forward to working with him in the future.”

[ashbury]

Same here.

[jokin]

The comment immediately above summarizes what I see and lays it out better than I ever could.  Look up "media darling" somewhere and Torii's picture should be there.  That doesn't mean he hasn't been a good player (he has), but his popularity is greater with the media than everyone else.  Torii would be a fascinating person to get to know and he is a great example to younger players, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a "great clubhouse guy" or will be a great mentor.

 

And yet, two of his former teammates felt strongly enough about what he brings to the clubhouse, they went out of their way to personally recruit him for just such roles. Moreover,  both the brand new manager and the first-time coach, by making this so public, are making this the defining move of the direction they wish to take their club, staking their jobs on the line as it were, as they begin their first year in their positions.

[jokin]

And further, the usually tightfisted GM and Owner felt that the third highest AAV contract in Twins history, and an obvious overpay, were well-justified, for the same reasons that you question.  Right or wrong, they have put a lot more on the line than us pontificating armchair generals.

[jokin]

He's been in two locker room altercations, Called Dominican born players imposters, said he'd be uncomfortable with a gay teammates, and then endorsed a political candidate that believes a group of peolpe should be treated differently based on their sexual orientation.  If Twins organization doesn't see these as divisive (especially when you couple it with the "he ruined it" finger pointing at the end of the press conference), then I have even less faith in their decision making abilities than before

 

I think you're reading in, and proclaiming your problems with the decision from your sociological point of view, rather than what is perceived as problematic from the parties in question.

[jokin]

Remember this also the guy who said "the reason why there are more latino players than black players is because you can get latino's for a bag chips" He since apologize and I wonder if he will apologize here. Although to be fair Mike Bernadino is too aggressive, twins pressers are way to softballed questions and yes both people were out of line.

 

The thing about the Hunter quote, however insensitive it might sound, it's actually quite accurate, all major league clubs have recognized, reinoforced, and exploited these inequities for years.

[TheLeviathan]

The thing about the Hunter quote, however insensitive it might sound, it's actually quite accurate, all major league clubs have recognized, reinoforced, and exploited these inequities for years.

 

It's "quite accurate" that you can get them for a bag of chips?

 

Or, I'd suggest, is that about as accurate a representation as anything Torii has said about blacks and latinos in basebal?

[jokin]

Deadspin could be Hustler, Mother Jones, Readers Digest, the Washington Times and Happenings all rolled into one, but it doesn't change the publicly stated views of the person.

 

I'm probably missing something.

 

Yes.  A journalist from a legitimate news source used a tainted, agenda-driven source without legitimate journalistic standards as part of his questioning, compounding that gaffe with poor timing of his questions.

[stringer bell]

Perhaps this deserves a different thread, but I think it is hard enough to quantify events on the field and I believe it is nearly impossible  to figure out how valuable Hunter will be in off-the-field areas.  Some have pointed out Hunter's "warts" while others have emphasized his popularity with teammates, fans and the media.  I see him as extremely popular with the media and fans, not universally revered by teammates.  Perhaps he will be a huge positive influence on his teammates resulting in more victories, but more likely his presence won't make much difference.

 

In the broader scope, I am of the opinion that "chemistry" and "team unity" are fueled more by success on the field than the other way around.  I think the Twins will win more games next year because they will have a bit more talent and particularly a better pitching staff and that the two highest-paid players will have much better seasons than they did in 2014.

[jokin]

It's "quite accurate" that you can get them for a bag of chips?

 

Or, I'd suggest, is that about as accurate a representation as anything Torii has said about blacks and latinos in basebal?

 

Yeah, we all get it, you generally hate Torii Hunter's off-field commentary.  And once again, trying to justify that hatred, you are pedantically overreacting to a choice of words chosen by Hunter to make a figurative, not literal, point about the economics of baseball.

 

I have no interest in Hunter's positions, pro or con, but are you so lacking in empathy that you can't understand that he's coming from a whole different set of life experiences than you, particularly with the drop off the cliff in the number of African Americans participating in baseball, from Little League to the Major League?

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah, we all get it, you generally hate Torii Hunter's off-field commentary.  

 

Everyone should - he made a series of incredibly stupid and ignorant remarks that are totally indefensible.

[stringer bell]

I can cheer for Torii Hunter despite his views on gay marriage.  I can think of him as entertaining, gregarious and engaging while not believing that he will make the team better "outside the lines".  His performance on the field will determine whether or not the Twins made a good signing when they paid him $10.5M per year. 

[jokin]

Perhaps this deserves a different thread, but I think it is hard enough to quantify events on the field and I believe it is nearly impossible  to figure out how valuable Hunter will be in off-the-field areas.  Some have pointed out Hunter's "warts" while others have emphasized his popularity with teammates, fans and the media.  I see him as extremely popular with the media and fans, not universally revered by teammates.  Perhaps he will be a huge positive influence on his teammates resulting in more victories, but more likely his presence won't make much difference.

 

In the broader scope, I am of the opinion that "chemistry" and "team unity" are fueled more by success on the field than the other way around.  I think the Twins will win more games next year because they will have a bit more talent and particularly a better pitching staff. 

 

Good post, I strongly agree that your conclusions will turn out being right.  The club has bet $10.5M that we're wrong.... that between increased season ticket sales, concessions revenues, heightened public interest and TV viewership ratings on the financial end, plus, "leadership", "mentorship" and individual production upgrades from the field and clubhouse level, that they're going to come out ahead.

 

I have my doubts, only time will tell.  One thing is possible, if it does blow up in their faces as badly as some are forecasting (or wishing?) it to do, then there finally might be a sweeping wholesale set of hires from the outside, from Twins President down to Ballboy.

[TheLeviathan]

I can cheer for Torii Hunter despite his views on gay marriage.  I can think of him as entertaining, gregarious and engaging while not believing that he will make the team better "outside the lines".  His performance on the field will determine whether or not the Twins made a good signing when they paid him $10.5M per year. 

 

Agreed, so when the majority of the rhetoric surrounding his return is focused on intangibles and not what he brings to the field.....I start having my doubts.

[jokin]

Everyone should - he made a series of incredibly stupid and ignorant remarks that are totally indefensible.

 

As I said, lack of empathy on your part, "I don't care", on my part.

[jokin]

I can cheer for Torii Hunter despite his views on gay marriage.  I can think of him as entertaining, gregarious and engaging while not believing that he will make the team better "outside the lines".  His performance on the field will determine whether or not the Twins made a good signing when they paid him $10.5M per year. 

 

Yep. I've stated my position on the issue- the State shouldn't even be involved in the issue- that's the Third Side- not usually tabulated by pollsters. But the fact remains, because the State is involved, the country is almost evenly divided on the issue, even the African American community.  Hunter is on one of those sides- a side that even the President was on until just over two years ago.  I'm not sure why that makes Hunter a controversial "non-person" to so many.

 

I really prefer that his onfield-performance be the only point of discussion.  I really could not care less what Chris Kluwe or Torii Hunter have to say about anything non-sports-related.

[TheLeviathan]

As I said, lack of empathy.

 

Yes, I have no empathy for a position that manages to be both mildly racist and utterly wrong.  

 

Agent prices have very little to do with why black men aren't playing baseball because they aren't playing it LONG before agents get involved.  So blaming it on cheap latinos is ridiculous regardless of your level of empathy.

[USAFChief]

Yes, I have no empathy for a position that manages to be both mildly racist and utterly wrong.  

 

Agent prices have very little to do with why black men aren't playing baseball because they aren't playing it LONG before agents get involved.  So blaming it on cheap latinos is ridiculous regardless of your level of empathy.

Is it possible you are making way too much of this?

 

If there are intangibles the Twins hope to get from Hunter's presence, my guess is it's related to his unwavering desire to win, and willingness to do whatever that takes. Which, by the way, I think they could benefit from.

 

I doubt any teammate pays much if any attention to a quote about minorities in baseball made a while ago.

[TheLeviathan]

If there are intangibles the Twins hope to get from Hunter's presence, my guess is it's related to his unwavering desire to win, and willingness to do whatever that takes. Which, by the way, I think they could benefit from.

 

With this part I agree that Torii may be helpful.  I've been an advocate of letting kids have swagger and attitude and I don't mind that in a ballplayer.

 

That is not, however, the same as being a mentor, a leader, or a model of professionalism and too many people are equivocating those things.

[jokin]

Yes, I have no empathy for a position that manages to be both mildly racist and utterly wrong.  

 

Agent prices have very little to do with why black men aren't playing baseball because they aren't playing it LONG before agents get involved.  So blaming it on cheap latinos is ridiculous regardless of your level of empathy.

 

Lack of empathy on display yet again.  Torii Hunter is not a college-educated member of the majority race in this country- replete with the currently socially acceptable and "proper thinking."   And you missed your lessons in college, a minority can't be viewed in the same lens regarding personal perceptions of racial issues as the majority race.  And you're unrealistically expecting Torii to have had the same life experiences as you, you can't even imagine the discussions he's undoubtedly had with other African American players and their formulation of opinions on being a vanishing breed in MLB, or maybe, I admit I'm speculating here but I know of other instances, the day that his children told him they weren't interested in pursuing a career in baseball.

[TheLeviathan]

Lack of empathy on display yet again.  Torii Hunter is not a college-educated member of the majority race in this country- replete with the currently socially acceptable and "proper thinking."   And you missed your lessons in college, a minority can't be viewed in the same lens regarding personal perceptions of racial issues as the majority race.  And you're unrealistically expecting Torii to have had the same life experiences as you, you can't even imagine the discussions he's undoubtedly had with other African American players and their formulation of opinions on being a vanishing breed in MLB, or maybe, I admit I'm speculating here but I know of other instances, the day that his children told him they weren't interested in pursuing a career in baseball.

 

http://media.tumblr.com/cdc0a1dd77d1640fce09f0547891182a/tumblr_inline_n9m4gfuN1e1qziitf.gif

[ashbury]

http://media.tumblr.com/cdc0a1dd77d1640fce09f0547891182a/tumblr_inline_n9m4gfuN1e1qziitf.gif

 

Moderator's note: Personally I try to use this gif in a spirit of fun, not to express actual exasperation.  Be that as it may, if either of you being truly dumbfounded / speechless at the other means it's the end of this bickerfest between you two, then some good will have come of it.  Let me be clearer: stop the bickering, both of you.  The simplest litmus test is, when it's becoming about the other person intertwined with the ideas, take a step back.

[Reider]

I watched the entire press conference and I felt embarrassed for Torii Hunter and the Minnesota Twins.

[h2oface]

...... to make a figurative, not literal, point ......

It is hard to know.......... since the English language has been broken ........ literally.

http://io9.com/society-crumbles-as-google-admits-literally-now-means-1134793489

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

My wife and I are trying to raise two boys. We help coach little league, and enjoy following the Twins. Professional sports is not just "the toy department." It is also a place to teach a game, and learn how boys can grow to become men--men who will have to live in an unpredictable, unscripted world where balls take funny bounces, and people will ask unpredictable questions. "How will you respond, boys?"

 

I am fascinated by posters who think controversial topics should not be brought up in public press conferences. Do we really want our sports to be that predictable? We might as well watch reruns of sports events where our team always wins, or our favorite athlete always comes through in the clutch.

 

Some very unpredictable things can happen when a popular player like Torii Hunter steps into the batter's box, or behind a microphone. Would you want it any other way?

[jokin]

It is hard to know.......... since the English language has been broken ........ literally.

http://io9.com/society-crumbles-as-google-admits-literally-now-means-1134793489

 

That's a great link... and exemplifies why so many of us seem to be talking right past each other.

The great 20th centruy semanticist, S I Hayakawa, brilliant original thinker, and fierce defender of freedom of speech and thought had this to say:

 

 

If you see in any given situation only what everyone else can see, you can be said to be so much a representative of your culture, that you are a victim of it.

 

For anyone interested, I highly recommend Hayakawa's monumental, but easy to read, crystal clear thinking book, Language in Thought and Action.  This is one of the most influential books I read in school, and has had an immense impact on how I view the world and my relationship to it.  Talk about a mind-freer! It taught me to question the words that both I and others use and to understand that communication is not only difficult, but fraught with pitfalls and blind alleys (which have since been heightened due to the huge chunk of communication now taking place between us in shorthand "code" and absent of any vocal or body cues). It reinforced in me the concept that we need to try to look at the world through the eyes of others, and that how "we" and "they" "see" the world is to a large extent shaped by the culturally-shaped language each of us uses to describe it.

[Squirrel]

Torii and Berardino seem to have come to an understanding with one another. Given that, I think this thread has run its course on the topic at hand and wants to delve into non-baseball areas. While I am not opposed to discussing the other issues touched on throughout this thread, it would be better to start a different thread in another forum to address those issues. Therefore I am locking this thread.