Article: Torii Hunter is Returning to the Twins

[howeda7]

I don't like moving Arcia to LF, but Seth's right the over-reaction here is just as over-the-top as the universal love elsewhere. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

It's one year of an over-paid aging outfielder. It's not what will determine the Twins fate in 2015 much less long-term.  It's really not that big of a deal.

Edited December 3, 2014 by howeda7

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Twins have too many DH types on the roster without much defensive ability.  Pinto, Hunter, Arcia, Vargas... Have to believe there are more deals coming via the trade route.

why would you trade Arcia, Pinto or Vargas who all have options, to keep a 40 year old on a 1 year contract?

[lightfoot789]

GREAT  SIGN

Tori will be worth his weight in gold come Spring Training alone, as the young'ins practice with him on a day to day basis.  The little tid bits they receive will be unmeasureable.  I disagree Seth.  Leadership is important.  As everyone complains about rhe Twins OF defense - Ask yourself who in the hell has been their OF defensive mentor.  Anyone you marvel about? 

 

This church mouse team needs someone to light a fire under them from a player perspective and someone who does it the right way.  The corner OF positioning depends on where the coaches want to shift anyway.  They can take the burden off either guy with a shift during any AB.    Great Sign.   - Somebody ask Buxton and other young guys what they think. 

[TKGuy]

I don't give a crap about the $$, the Twins certainly have money, unless they say this is it, then I will be mad. I'd like to take a run at Masterson on a Hughes like deal.

 

Maybe Torii can help Hicks get his head out of his rear end. His RH bat will certainly help break up the lefties

[Otto von Ballpark]

But as far as your first paragraph goes, I am more cynical. To me, Hunter choosing to come back boils down to pretty simple logic. Nobody really knows who the contenders will be in December, so he signed with the team most likely to trade him to one when the picture clears up in July. The Twins get an infusion of needed leadership in Spring Training and the first half of the season, and Hunter gets some say in where he ends up playing in September, and hopefully into October. It's a win-win, though a risk in that Hunter has to be banking on playing well enough for there to be an actual market for him at that time. If not, I guess its not all bad on a one-year deal and nearing retirement. 

If the Twins are shifting Arcia for him, I don't know if they are really just looking for a 3 month rental.

 

And a guy signing a 1 year $10.5 mil deal doesn't suggest great trade bait a few months later when he turns 40.

 

Plus, leadership and professionalism -- this is the same Torii Hunter that threw a punch that missed Justin Morneau and hit Nick Punto, right?  Or has Hunter grown up a lot since he was... 30?

[D. Hocking]

I am not overly thrilled with the move - I would rather see someone who can be part of the future get the experience and become part of the team.  I also don't think he is the club house leader is the popular belief.  I don't think he is toxic, but do think he can get passive aggressive when he is not happy, and ultimately it seems like it is all about Torii.   I think he could be good energy if things are going well, but don't think he will have a positive effect if we are struggling and will be looking at and focused on what is next for him as he did in 2007.  But mainly, I would prefer not to have Kubel 2015 (although I think he has a lot more potential to be good offensively).

 

 Still I did not think it was a horrible move until I read this:

 

 

Well, now that I've read the Strib comments (at least the ones so far), I get what the Twins were hoping for -- almost universally positive, 

 

If the Strib collective things it is a good move -- it can only bring tears.  I also suspect half of the comments were able to work in a slam against Mauer while praising Torii.,

[jokin]

The last time I remember hearing about our need for a RH outfield bat, it was to replace Hunter, and we traded for Delmon Young... obviously this is nowhere near as bad as that move, but that does not make this is a good move.

 

And I'm most certainly not saying that it is... just Ryan holding up the Twins Way candle.

[Otto von Ballpark]

GREAT  SIGN

Tori will be worth his weight in gold come Spring Training alone, as the young'ins practice with him on a day to day basis.  The little tid bits they receive will be unmeasureable.  I disagree Seth.  Leadership is important.  As everyone complains about rhe Twins OF defense - Ask yourself who in the hell has been their OF defensive mentor.  Anyone you marvel about? 

 

This church mouse team needs someone to light a fire under them from a player perspective and someone who does it the right way.  The corner OF positioning depends on where the coaches want to shift anyway.  They can take the burden off either guy with a shift during any AB.    Great Sign.   - Somebody ask Buxton and other young guys what they think. 

Ask Buxton?  Is it a smart strategy to stock the major league roster with the minor leaguers' cool older brothers?  Players making personnel decisions sounds about as smart as managers making personnel decisions, which we've seen at various times in recent Twins history.

 

How well has that guaranteed instant Hunter mentorship factor worked before?  Mike Trout, right?  Austin Jackson's performance got worse in Detroit after Hunter arrived.  For all his mentorship talk, Span was a pretty marginal prospect for about 5 years while getting "mentored" by Hunter in spring trainings, and only became a legit hitting prospect immediately AFTER Hunter left Minnesota (and after he got Lasik eye surgery, IIRC).

 

No doubt the guy has kept himself in pretty good physical shape, and that's nothing to shrug at, but I think this mentorship thing is getting WAY overblown.

[Squirrel]

 Maybe Torii can help Hicks get his head out of his rear end. 

If Torii can manage to assist in that endeavor, then I'll be all in in hindsight.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If the Strib collective things it is a good move -- it can only bring tears.  I also suspect half of the comments were able to work in a slam against Mauer while praising Torii.,

Didn't Torii call out Mauer for not playing hurt back in the day?

 

And isn't that the same argument that gets shouted down by the more level-headed commenters here?

 

Do we really want that kind of a voice back in the clubhouse?

[Steven Buhr]

Of all the really bad moves the Twins could make, this one probably will be the least offensive to a significant segment of the fan base. So, there's that.

[Otto von Ballpark]

What good will I had from the coaching hires is evaporating with this move... seriously, it goes against every logical need for this team right now.

 

I guess I'll wait and hope the spotted something that means his defense really wasn't that bad the last few years... but then again, I waited and hoped that they saw some upside in Nolasco when they rushed out to sign him last winter too.

[Rosterman]

Who says Arcia will even beak camp with the Twins. He has his pluses and negatives, too. Not that the Twins have an abundance of outfielders to choose from who will perform. Wait, isn't that the starting rotation I'm talking about, too?

[Willihammer]

Enjoy, the last number is the best...

Value

1997 Twins 0.0 0.0   0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0   

1998 Twins -1.0 -0.4 -4.0 0.1 -1.4 -3.9 0.1 0.6 -4.7 -0.5   

1999 Twins -16.3 -0.7 3.0 0.3 -17.0 3.3 1.4 13.6 1.4 0.1   

2000 Twins -10.4 -0.5 -4.0 1.4 -11.0 -2.6 1.3 11.6 -0.7 -0.1   

2001 Twins 0.5 -0.8 20.0 2.2 -0.4 22.2 2.1 18.8 42.8 4.2   

2002 Twins 16.6 4.1 3.0 2.0 20.7 5.0 2.3 18.4 46.4 4.6 $13.0 $2.4

2003 Twins -4.1 -0.5 16.2 1.9 -4.6 18.1 2.4 19.8 35.7 3.5 $9.9 $4.8

2004 Twins 4.4 3.0 1.4 0.8 7.4 2.2 1.8 17.7 29.1 2.8 $8.8 $6.5

2005 Twins 4.2 2.5 2.0 0.9 6.6 2.8 1.5 12.7 23.7 2.4 $8.1 $8.0

2006 Twins 9.9 0.2 -8.0 1.7 10.1 -6.3 1.7 19.2 24.7 2.4 $8.8 $10.8

2007 Twins 12.9 0.0 -2.7 1.9 12.8 -0.8 2.4 20.1 34.6 3.4 $13.8 $12.0

2008 Angels 10.3 3.0 -10.2 1.1 13.3 -9.2 2.0 18.5 24.7 2.5 $11.1 $16.5

2009 Angels 17.8 2.2 -1.3 1.2 20.0 -0.1 1.8 15.4 37.1 3.7 $16.7 

2010 Angels 19.5 -4.4 -2.7 -1.7 15.1 -4.4 2.6 19.1 32.4 3.4 $13.5 

2011 Angels 11.1 -1.1 -0.9 -8.1 10.0 -9.0 2.1 18.9 21.9 2.3 $10.4 

2012 Angels 21.1 4.8 11.2 -6.4 25.9 4.8 1.8 17.3 49.8 5.2 $23.5 

2013 Tigers 12.6 0.0 -4.1 -6.4 12.6 -10.5 2.9 18.6 23.6 2.5 $12.7 

2014 Tigers 8.6 0.3 -18.3 -6.5 8.9 -24.7 2.4 16.6 3.1 0.3 $1.8

Headers.

[Lonestar]

If the Twins are shifting Arcia for him, I don't know if they are really just looking for a 3 month rental.

 

And a guy signing a 1 year $10.5 mil deal doesn't suggest great trade bait a few months later when he turns 40.

 

Plus, leadership and professionalism -- this is the same Torii Hunter that threw a punch that missed Justin Morneau and hit Nick Punto, right?  Or has Hunter grown up a lot since he was... 30?

Ryan has already hinted that Sano could/would play the OF.  It makes sense that he play OF since  Plouffe is a better 3B.  It makes sense that he play RF since he is more athletic than Arcia and has a better arm. 

 

It still doesn't make sense to sign Torii.

[cmb0252]

When did the Twins become the Dodgers or Yankees and money didn't matter? They mentioned before the off season that they didn't see the payroll increasing much from last year. Signing a player for $10.5M is a big deal financially. Here comes a reclamation quality pitcher.

[D. Hocking]

Didn't Torii call out Mauer for not playing hurt back in the day?

 

And isn't that the same argument that gets shouted down by the more level-headed commenters here?

 

Do we really want that kind of a voice back in the clubhouse?

Yes - and I don't even mind the fact that he called him out - but on the way he did it..

 

I remember him being on Barriero's show and obviously talking about Mauer (but not named) not playing through pain.  Dan got all excited and asked if he was talking about Mauer.  Torii just kind of giggled and would not confirm it - but it was clear he was.  If you are a leader - talk to the person directly or at least be direct with the media - don't try to make coy comments while trying to smooze a radio host knowing you are feeding into one of his obsessions.

[Bark's Lounge]

Ryan has already hinted that Sano could/would play the OF.  It makes sense that he play OF since  Plouffe is a better 3B.  It makes sense that he play RF since he is more athletic than Arcia and has a better arm. 

 

It still doesn't make sense to sign Torii.

Lonestar, it is very probable that Sano will not sniff the big leagues this season. He just lost a season, and the last level he played in (AA New Britain), he hit .235. He has a lot of work to do still. Maybe the end of 2015 will be his ETA, but 2016 is more likely. TJ surgery is not as hard on a position player as it is on a pitcher, but he still has to make adjustments and get comfortable again. In my opinion he plays most of the season at AA.

[Seth Stohs]

Seth, if "not the end of the world" is your endorsement of our first big player move of the offseason... then it's probably not a good move.  It's OK to say that, and I am not sure why that counts as a "complete overreaction".

 

$10.5 mil is the 2nd largest outside FA AAV the Twins have ever given out.

 

I've never "endorsed" the deal... I've said over and over during the past 2 months that I didn't want the Twins to sign Hunter... Now they have. I've repeated several times on twitter and on this site that I woudln't like it. But, now it's reality. I still don't like it, but we all knew/assumed it was coming. He can still do some things and we have to just hope that he'll be worth something. 

[Halsey Hall]

For me, at least there will be one autograph in spring training to get.  And it'll be good to see Torii again.  Plus, Torii will get his shot at a ring.  TR usually trades these good guys to a contender later on In the season. 

 

Maybe Arcia  can teach Torii not to swing at that low outside breaking ball for strike 3. 

[Seth Stohs]

Yes - and I don't even mind the fact that he called him out - but on the way he did it..

 

I remember him being on Barriero's show and obviously talking about Mauer (but not named) not playing through pain.  Dan got all excited and asked if he was talking about Mauer.  Torii just kind of giggled and would not confirm it - but it was clear he was.  If you are a leader - talk to the person directly or at least be direct with the media - don't try to make coy comments while trying to smooze a radio host knowing you are feeding into one of his obsessions.

 

Torii being Torii.

[TheLeviathan]

Torii being Torii.

 

Right, which makes all this hot air about leadership and personality really hard to swallow.  Is Torii Hunter really a better role model for professionalism than, say, Josh Willingham?  For whatever limitations Hammer had as a ball-player, the guy seemed like the consummate pro.  I certainly don't recall him dogging players publicly, talking about "real" blacks, or devising the use of Nick Punto as a punching bag for clubhouse chemistry in his time here.

 

Look, we all loved what Torii brought defensively in his initial stint.  The guy was a ton of fun to watch and his you could even handle his quirks and mistakes along the way.  But the romanticism of him as a leader and a professional are pretty hollow.

 

If you wanted a guy to be a good pro and role model than sign Alex Rios or Nick Markakis.  Torii Hunter?  He's too busy "being Torii" to be any of the things we seem to think he's bringing for intangibles.

 

And that isn't even touching the concerns about the tangibles and the ridiculous overpayment that constitutes.

Edited December 3, 2014 by TheLeviathan

[Kwak]

The Twins are 20 years behind the time.  Signing Hunter is another lame marketing ploy.  I have no interest in watching washed-up, over-the-hill players. I am insulted that players with some sort of Minnesota connection are what I want to see on the field. Salary--irrelevant a complet bore.

[stringer bell]

Right, which makes all this hot air about leadership and personality really hard to swallow.  Is Torii Hunter really a better role model for professionalism than, say, Josh Willingham?  For whatever limitations Hammer had as a ball-player, the guy seemed like the consummate pro.  I certainly don't recall him dogging players publicly, talking about "real" blacks, or devising the use of Nick Punto as a punching bag for clubhouse chemistry in his time here.

 

Look, we all loved what Torii brought defensively in his initial stint.  The guy was a ton of fun to watch and his you could even handle his quirks and mistakes along the way.  But the romanticism of him as a leader and a professional are pretty hollow.

 

If you wanted a guy to be a good pro and role model than sign Alex Rios or Nick Markakis.  Torii Hunter?  He's too busy "being Torii" to be any of the things we seem to think he's bringing for intangibles.

 

And that isn't even touching the concerns about the tangibles and the ridiculous overpayment that constitutes.

But how do you really feel about it Levi? I tend to ignore some of the off-field stuff, but I don't think leadership is the #1 problem with this team. Hunter doesn't fix what is wrong and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what Ryan and Molitor are thinking.

[TheLeviathan]

But how do you really feel about it Levi? I tend to ignore some of the off-field stuff, but I don't think leadership is the #1 problem with this team. Hunter doesn't fix what is wrong and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what Ryan and Molitor are thinking.

 

Hunter should be a platoon player and most likely a DH at this point.  Starting RF that pushes our other guy that should be a DH to LF?  I really, really don't like it.

[ScottyB]

I am not thrilled with this but it could ...could work out IF

Torii teaches Hicks how to hit

Torii teaches Arcia how to field

Torii fires up the clubhouse without punching anybody out

 

 

Make Torii Hicks roommate starting in spring training.  Strap him to Hicks, Buxton, Arcia,Kesler and Rosario so he can mentor them like Puck mentored him and like he mentored Denard and Revere.  Yes, he can't play like he did at 28, but if he can light a fire in Hicks alone, it'll be worth at least $5M.  Throw in 15 homers and 70 RBI's and the deal is worth it.  I think he can still teach these kids a thing or two.  Torii will be our first clubhouse leader since Cuddy left.  It won't mean many wins this season, but look at him like Crash Davis, he's a $10M teacher.

[gunnarthor]

Right, which makes all this hot air about leadership and personality really hard to swallow.  Is Torii Hunter really a better role model for professionalism than, say, Josh Willingham?  For whatever limitations Hammer had as a ball-player, the guy seemed like the consummate pro.  I certainly don't recall him dogging players publicly, talking about "real" blacks, or devising the use of Nick Punto as a punching bag for clubhouse chemistry in his time here.

 

None of those things are relevant to your proposal.  Maybe those things Hunter does, while horrible in your eyes, are the things that the people running the team think the locker room needs.  Maybe, with their experience around the sport, and your aversion to "the baseball codes," perhaps the people with the best knowledge of locker room dynamics and what is and isn't needed in them aren't posting on TD? 

[h2oface]

I don't get it.  I just don't get it.  It could be great. It could be horrible.  I loved Torii on the Twins, and I hated that he left. I hated that Gomez was traded too.  I don't see it helping much, and it could be blocking.  We missed all those good years he had. How soon can he be traded?

[glunn]

Moderator note --  we are allowing some leeway here, but please keep it civil.

[USAFChief]

Hunter was one of my all time favorite Twins. He would literally run through a catcher in a mid season game to score a run. I don't ever recall seeing less than his best effort, day after day. There's value in that, tangible and intangible.

 

That said...it is hard to see how this move does much to add wins in 2015. And that's what management should be focusing on, IMO.

 

I also think the money DOES matter, because they've already told us they aren't going to spend much this winter.