Article: The Case for (Jim) "Kitty" Kaat

[Seth Stohs]

Last Tuesday, Twins Daily had two articles touting the possible Hall of Fame credentials of outfielder Tony Oliva. The Baseball Hall of Fame announced that Oliva was one of ten players from the “Golden Era” on a special ballot that a 16-person Veteran’s Committee would vote on for induction. A second long-time Minnesota Twins player is also on that ballot and deserves consideration, Jim Kaat.Kaat signed with the Washington Senators as an 18-year-old in 1957. He made his big league debut late in the 1959 season as a 20-year-old. His first full season in the big leagues was 1961, when the Senators moved north and west to Minnesota and became the Twins.

 

He pitched for the Twins until the 1972 season when the Twins brass thought he was done. In his time as a Minnesota Twins pitcher, he was one of the most respected pitchers in baseball. He struggled in his two brief stints with the Senators, but if you count those numbers into his Minnesota Twins numbers, he went 190-159 with a 3.34 ERA and a 1.23 WHIP. That accounts for an adjusted-ERA+ of 110, which is 10% better than average. He gave up just 0.8 HR/9. He walked just 2.1 per nine. His 5.6 K/9 rate sounds miniscule in today’s world, but at the time, it was above average. Remember, players in his era were embarrassed to strike out. He represented the Twins in two All-Star Games.

 

“Kitty” was a big part of the 1965 World Series team. In that Series, he started three games, all three against Sandy Koufax. He did win game two of that series, but as we know, Koufax became legendary in that Series.

 

He was named the 1966 American League Pitcher of the Year by The Sporting News. He went 25-13 with a 2.75 ERA and a 1.97 WHIP. The Cy Young Award was started in 1956, but the first time there were separate awards for each league was 1967. Names like Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale and Whitey Ford won MLB Cy Youngs before 1967.

 

After being traded to the White Sox later in the 1973 season, he spent two more years there. He pitched great in 1975 and earned his third trip to the All-Star Game. He spent 1976 through 1979 with the Phillies. He was traded to the Yankees in 1979 and also pitched for them to start the 1980 season. 1979 was the first season in which he primarily pitched out of the bullpen. He was traded to the St. Louis Cardinals as a 40-year-old in 1980. He stayed with the Cardinals until he was released in July, 1983.

 

His first World Series was with the Twins in 1965. His second World Series was in 1982, and this time he earned the ring. He pitched in four games for the Cardinals in the Series.

 

Kaat was known for his defense. He won 16 Gold Gloves, which was a record until Greg Maddux won 18 of them in his Hall of Fame career. Kaat won the award each year from 1962 through 1973, and then 1974 through 1977.

 

In his 25 years as a big leaguer, Kaat went 283-237 with a 3.45 ERA and a 1.26 WHIP. He had an adjusted ERA+ of 108. He became more crafty as he aged, and his career strikeout rate was just 4.9 per nine. From 1961 through 1976 (16 seasons), he went over 200 innings 14 times and over 300 innings twice. He was on his way to 200+ innings again in 1972. He was 10-2 with a 2.06 ERA and a 1.00 WHIP in 15 starts and 113.1 innings. Unfortunately, he had major elbow pain and didn’t pitch the rest of the season. Later, he would find out that the injury and pain he had at the time would now require Tommy John surgery. He didn’t have any surgery, but he did change several things to allow him to pitch, and he pitched for another decade.

 

After retirement, he did join former teammate Pete Rose’s Cincinnati Reds coaching staff. Rose was so impressed by Kaat’s knowledge of pitching that he said if he was ever manager and Kaat was interested, he could be his pitching coach. He did have one twenty-game winner in his full season as pitching coach.

However, Kaat has stayed in the game since then as an analyst of the game, and frankly, one of the best. He was a full time analyst somewhere from 1986 through 2006 when he allegedly retired. He was the Twins color analyst from 1988 through 1993. However, after some time off, he has called games in the World Baseball Classic, done work for MLB Network and more since then. In his time, he won seven NY Emmy’s for on-air sports coverage.

 

We all know that “wins” are not a great indicator of great pitching. However, 283 wins means that he was very, very good for a very long time. He is one of just 29 men who played in four decades. There are 30 pitchers in baseball history with more wins than Kaat. Just five of them are not in the Hall of Fame. Bobby Matthews won 297 games between 1871 and 1888. Tony Mullane won 284 games between 1881 and 1894. Tommy John won 288 games between 1963 and 1989. Randy Johnson should get into the Hall of Fame this year on his first ballot, and Roger Clemens who should be in the Hall of Fame.

 

In his 15 years on the ballot, Kaat never received more than 29.7% of the vote by the writers.

 

In his excellent autobiography, Still Pitching, Kaat actually acknowledges that his was probably not a Hall of Fame career and he outlines some of the reasons. However, the Hall of Fame is also about character and integrity. There is also room for players who are great ambassadors of the game. Jim Kaat is certainly that.

 

I once heard Kaat give a speech, probably four or five years ago. First, it was excellent. He told story after story after story of his days with the Twins. He had the crowd laughing and crying, and nodding their heads with memories. He spoke for 45 minutes, and not once did he use his notes. He has given to many charities and been a spokesman for baseball. He has represented the game very well for over 55 years now. When you combine his excellent playing career with his post-career baseball history, a strong case should be made in support of Kaat’s Hall of Fame candidacy.

 

The Veteran’s Committee will be voting one week from today, December 8. Will Tony Oliva or Jim Kaat get the opportunity to call themselves Hall of Famers? I guess we’ll find out then.

 

His long career speaks to the changes in the game. When he first came up, pitchers hit and starters threw 250 to 300 innings. By the time he retired, the DH era had begun and bullpens became much more important.

 

It’s never a bad thing to take a look back at the great history of baseball and of the Minnesota Twins. Kaat is arguably (though there’s little question in my mind) the best pitcher in Twins history. It’s fun to look back, and for those of us who didn’t see him pitch, a reminder of how good he was.

 

If you want to send a last-minute letter of support for Jim Kaat, you can do so by mailing a letter to the Veteran’s Committee at:

 

Baseball Hall of Fame

Attn: Golden Era Committee

25 Main Street

Cooperstown, NY 13326

 

Click here to view the article

[Thrylos]

If Blyleven is in, Kaat should be in as well.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I think Blyleven was a better pitcher than Kaat, though I think both were very good. I give Blyleven the edge with all the Shutouts and Strikeouts. Some of that is longevity, but being able to remain on a major league roster (and in a starting rotation) is an accomplishment on its own.

 

If the voters were looking at defense, I think Kaat would get a well-deserved boost. Both in reputation and iby the numbers, Kaat was one of the better defenders at his position. He could also handle the bat pretty well for a pitcher.

[nicksaviking]

The Twins probably haven't done him any favors by not retiring his number.  If I was a voter and saw that the team he spent his formative years with didn't think he was as good of a player as Kent Hrbek, I'd have second thoughts.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

How many other 17-time gold glove award winners have been passed over for induction?

[Seth Stohs]

The Twins probably haven't done him any favors by not retiring his number.  If I was a voter and saw that the team he spent his formative years with didn't think he was as good of a player as Kent Hrbek, I'd have second thoughts.

 

The Twins should absolutely retire his number. I have no idea why they haven't. Very good point!

[nicksaviking]

For what it's worth, we do have pretty clear insight as to how the voters ranked these Golden Age players back in the day.  Most were on the ballot for years together, though Gil Hodges was quite a bit earlier than most.  In the ballots from the mid 80's through the mid 90's, the pecking order was almost always Oliva, Kaat, Wills, Allen, Boyer, Minoso and Tiant, with Ron Santo, who got in on the last ballot sandwhiched between Oliva and Kaat nearly every time.

 

Obviously we have different numbers to look at these days, but starting in 1984, the voters appeared to always favor Oliva.  His first two years on the ballot were the only two he shared with Hodges, on those Hodges was ahead.

 

Fun side note I noticed while looking up the voting records: 1984 both Harmon Killebrew and Luis Aparicio both got into the Hall along with Don Drysdale.  Harmon failed to get in his first three years (likely because voters still put a lot of weight on batting average) but made it in with the slick fielding shrotstop and the dominant righty who's career was cut short.  Killebrew's career OPS was an awesome 143, while Aparicio's was a cringeworthy 82.  I'm guessing that is the largest disparity between same-year HOF batters ever.  Drysdale's career OPS? 45, meaing the difference between Drysdale's and Aparicio's OPS was 60% less than the difference between Killebrew's and Aparicio's.  In fairness, Drysdale was a pretty damn good hitter; for a pitcher.

Edited December 2, 2014 by nicksaviking

[Steven Buhr]

The Twins probably haven't done him any favors by not retiring his number.  If I was a voter and saw that the team he spent his formative years with didn't think he was as good of a player as Kent Hrbek, I'd have second thoughts.

For some reason, Kaat has never seemed to get the same love and respect from the Twins organization that others from his era have. I've never understood that.

 

Maybe there were hard feelings on one side or the other after his days in the Twins booth were over or some other acrimony with the Twins. I don't know.

 

I do know that the Twins gave up on him too early... twice. Once, as a pitcher (he won 20 games for the WSox twice after the Twins gave up on him as a pitcher) and once as a broadcaster (he went on to be just about the best analyst in the business after his time in the Twins booth).

 

I don't know the reasons why he was traded or why he stopped broadcasting Twins games, but the Twins were worse off without him in both cases.

 

Regardless of whether he gets voted in to the HoF, I don't think any other former Twins player is more worthy of being the next to get honored by a statue at Target Field. The fact that the Twins have put up statues of two owners, a writer and a mascot before honoring Kaat is simply an embarrassment.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I think a really close contemporary comp for Kaat is Mike Mussina - if Moose is deemed worthy by voters and gets in, I think Kaat should be in too.

[nicksaviking]

For some reason, Kaat has never seemed to get the same love and respect from the Twins organization that others from his era have. I've never understood that.

 

Maybe there were hard feelings on one side or the other after his days in the Twins booth were over or some other acrimony with the Twins. I don't know.

 

I do know that the Twins gave up on him too early... twice. Once, as a pitcher (he won 20 games for the WSox twice after the Twins gave up on him as a pitcher) and once as a broadcaster (he went on to be just about the best analyst in the business after his time in the Twins booth).

 

I don't know the reasons why he was traded or why he stopped broadcasting Twins games, but the Twins were worse off without him in both cases.

 

Regardless of whether he gets voted in to the HoF, I don't think any other former Twins player is more worthy of being the next to get honored by a statue at Target Field. The fact that the Twins have put up statues of two owners, a writer and a mascot before honoring Kaat is simply an embarrassment.

 

Yeah, he does seem to be the forgotten man of those great early Twins teams.  I guess I never heard of any acrimony, though there may have been some.  To me it seemed like a failure to recognize his value.  Those Twins teams were loaded with all kinds of great but perhaps not elite pitching with Kaat, Pascual, Grant, Perry, Chance, Boswell and later Blyleven.  They may have been so spoiled rotten in pitching that they didn't realize how good they had it. 

 

I do believe the team gave him some kind of community service award this year at the annual Twins award banquet.

[Steven Buhr]

Yeah, he does seem to be the forgotten man of those great early Twins teams.  I guess I never heard of any acrimony, though there may have been some.  To me it seemed like a failure to recognize his value.  Those Twins teams were loaded with all kinds of great but perhaps not elite pitching with Kaat, Pascual, Grant, Perry, Chance, Boswell and later Blyleven.  They may have been so spoiled rotten in pitching that they didn't realize how good they had it. 

 

I do believe the team gave him some kind of community service award this year at the annual Twins award banquet.

Glad you reminded me of that. Yes I believe they did honor him at the Diamond Awards event.

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

I have always felt that Kaat belonged in the HOF. A very good fielding pitcher as well as a smart one. Yes, career wise probably best pitcher in Twins history--though people like Mudcat and Johan and Bert may have had better individual seasons.

[Seth Stohs]

Glad you reminded me of that. Yes I believe they did honor him at the Diamond Awards event.

 

that is correct, it will happen in January.

[Seth Stohs]

I have always felt that Kaat belonged in the HOF. A very good fielding pitcher as well as a smart one. Yes, career wise probably best pitcher in Twins history--though people like Mudcat and Johan and Bert may have had better individual seasons.

 

Kaat's 1966 season is right up there with anyone, especially if you consider innings. Kaat wasn't dominating like Johan, and Mudcat and Jim Perry and Dean Chance all had nice years/stretches, but Kaat was very good for a very long time, so that's where my argument that he's the best Twins pitcher in their history comes from. Blyleven's number is retired and he's a HOFer now, but if you just look at Twins years, Kaat was better. People forget that Blyleven didn't strike out very many batters either. The game was different back then.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Blyleven is 5th all-time in strikeouts... Top 5 in the league in Ks in 14 seasons - 4th or better every year for the whole decade of the 1970s. Compared to his peers (not including Nolan Ryan) Blyleven struck out more batters than most.

[Linus]

The Twins probably haven't done him any favors by not retiring his number.  If I was a voter and saw that the team he spent his formative years with didn't think he was as good of a player as Kent Hrbek, I'd have second thoughts.

I had not even thought of that.  Its crazy that his number isn't retired with the Twins.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think a really close contemporary comp for Kaat is Mike Mussina - if Moose is deemed worthy by voters and gets in, I think Kaat should be in too.

How so?  Kaat's very best seasons by ERA+ (125-130) barely exceed Mussina's career average (123).  They both led their leagues in GS twice and IP once.  They were both full-time MLB starting pitchers from ages 22-39.  They both won a ton of Gold Gloves.  

 

But Mussina almost doubles Kaat in rWAR, and destroys him in WAA (48 vs 7).  Awards seem to back that up -- Mussina had 5 All-Star appearances and 9 years receiving Cy Young votes, versus 3 and 1 for Kaat (albeit separate Cy Youngs for each league were not awarded for the first 5 seasons of Kaat's career -- otherwise he probably adds 1-3 Cy Young vote-getting seasons.  Then again, his first All-Star appearance was also in a year with two All-Star games...).

[Otto von Ballpark]

The Twins probably haven't done him any favors by not retiring his number.  If I was a voter and saw that the team he spent his formative years with didn't think he was as good of a player as Kent Hrbek, I'd have second thoughts.

Interesting point, although Kaat's Twins career numbers really weren't all that different than Brad Radke's.  Does Radke deserve a number retirement?

 

I doubt Hall of Fame voters are looking at retired numbers, though (and if they were looking that closely, they would probably also notice that Hrbek won 2 titles with the Twins and is a Minnesota native, explaining why he is the only non-HOF candidate among that group).

 

Both Kaat's HOF case and his number retirement case would have been enhanced by spending more of his career with the Twins, I think (greater franchise association), but the number retirement itself probably has no effect on his hall case.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I'm talking mostly in terms of the counting stats, less so than the advanced metrics. Mussina was better than Kaat, and had a higher peak. Roughly similar, though, are the counting stats that HOF voters have tradtionally (rightly or wrongly) used to elect guys. ERA, Wins, Shutouts, World Series Wins, yadda yadda yadda. Kaat had a lower ERA, but Mussina pitched in an offensive heavy environment. Mussina struck out more batters ( a lot more) but as Seth noted, that was also typical of the game at that time, fewer Runs, but also fewer Ks.  

 

Maybe Mark Buerhle is a better comp?

[DJL44]

Luis Tiant is the best pitcher on that ballot

[Rosterman]

Man, Kaat was solid. He had that one injury plagued year. He had at least three dynamite seasons as a starter. If he hadn't been a lefty setup man, he might have a amassed some saves and been the equivalent of John Smoltz. He didn't reach 300 wins, but many pitchers don't. But look at his workhorse record. Not only starting, but reliving a few times when called upon in the 60s. 

 

Yes, he should be retired and given a statue before a writer and mascot.

 

Interesting to hear that instead of Tommy John surgery, he changed and played thru it. (Tommy John, also a former Twins broadcaster, should be in the Hall, too.)

[h2oface]

Yes, yes, yes.  Jim Kaat belongs in the HOF.  I hope the veteran's committee finally makes that happen.  All Twins' pitchers should be required to watch tapes of Jim's delivery and how to be ready to field the ball.  Pitcher's are just lazy now.  They are an important part of defense after the ball is pitched.

[Seth Stohs]

Blyleven is 5th all-time in strikeouts... Top 5 in the league in Ks in 14 seasons - 4th or better every year for the whole decade of the 1970s. Compared to his peers (not including Nolan Ryan) Blyleven struck out more batters than most.

 

Correct. He was a strikeout pitcher for that era, but it's a different era in that he averaged just 6.7 K/9... that's not exactly "strikeout pitcher" in today's terms. 

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

But if you're comparing Kaat to Blyleven on the basis of Strikeouts, I think Bert wins that comparison quite handily. Kaat averaged 4.9 K/9 for his career.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Buehrle is a closer comp, although even he doubles Kaat's WAA through the same age.

 

Kaat was a good pitcher, but even in the context of the Twins he doesn't stand out as a great (i.e. better than Radke).  He generally didn't seem like an "ace" just part of a solid staff with Pascual, Grant, Perry, Boswell, Chance, etc.

 

Not sure of the background, but in 1969 and 1970, he spent most of the stretch run pitching out of the bullpen, did not appear in the 1969 playoffs, and was only tenuously part of the 1970 playoff rotation (getting the final start in the sweep and being pulled after 2 innings).

 

In addition to having a bit more "lifetime Twin" cred, he could have benefitted from a flipped outcome to the 1965 series and/or a better finish on his remarkable 1967 stretch run to give him some defining moments.

 

Just looking at his similarity scores at B-Ref, a Kaat election to the HOF almost certainly means Tommy John has to go in as well, and Jamie Moyer would warrant strong consideration.

[Bill Parker]

Kaat was very good for a very long time, so that's where my argument that he's the best Twins pitcher in their history comes from. Blyleven's number is retired and he's a HOFer now, but if you just look at Twins years, Kaat was better. People forget that Blyleven didn't strike out very many batters either. The game was different back then.

 

I don't think this holds up. Obviously, Kaat's Twins career was longer, but not by a *ton* -- he pitched about 15% more innings with the team than Bert did. It's more like Bert's NON-Twins career was longer than Kaat's, but I don't think that makes a difference here.

 

And I'm not sure how it works out that Kaat was better during their Twins careers alone; they have identical 3.28 ERAs with the team, but Kaat got the benefit of the pitchers' era, so Bert's 3.28 is better than Kaat's (119 ERA+ to 112). And while you're right that Blyleven didn't strike out many guys by today's standards, the key point is that "it was a different game back then": he was in the top 6 in the league in strikeouts per 9 every year during his first Twins stint, and in total strikeouts every year but the first; Kaat was on the list for total K four times because he threw so many innings, but finished 10th in K/9 once and that's it. I think it's clear enough from the basic numbers, but if you want to look at WAR, Bert has Kaat beat for their Twins careers to the tune of 49-32 by Baseball-Reference (but  a much narrower 57-51 by Fangraphs). And as to the argument that Blyleven had some of his best years elsewhere, both of them actually had two great years elsewhere -- Blyleven 1984 with Cleveland and 1989 with California, Kaat 1974-75 with those annoying Chicagoans. 

 

There's room to argue how MUCH better Bert really was than Kaat (and every other pitcher in team history), but I think it's really very hard to argue that anyone but Bert is #1. The scale is hugely different, but in my opinion Bert is the best Twins pitcher almost as clearly as Walter Johnson is the best pitcher in franchise history.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Man, Kaat was solid. He had that one injury plagued year. He had at least three dynamite seasons as a starter. If he hadn't been a lefty setup man, he might have a amassed some saves and been the equivalent of John Smoltz. He didn't reach 300 wins, but many pitchers don't. But look at his workhorse record. Not only starting, but reliving a few times when called upon in the 60s. 

Smoltz?  Kaat pitched 5 seasons primarily out of the pen with a 97 ERA+.  Pretty close to what Swarzak did the last 4 years.  Neat for an old guy, but not a relief ace even in his own era.

 

If you support Tommy John, though, Kaat is not a bad choice -- but they'd definitely have to both go in

[nicksaviking]

Smoltz?  Kaat pitched 5 seasons primarily out of the pen with a 97 ERA+.  Pretty close to what Swarzak did the last 4 years.  Neat for an old guy, but not a relief ace even in his own era.

 

If you support Tommy John, though, Kaat is not a bad choice -- but they'd definitely have to both go in

 

I'm not sure what the next "Era" will be, but I'm guessing John would be included in the Post 72 ERA that will someday be evaluated with the likes of Steve Garvey, Ted Simmons, Keith Hernandez, Dale Murphy, Lee Smith, Don Mattingly, Alan Trammel and Tim Raines, assuming those last four don't get in on the regular ballot.

Edited December 2, 2014 by nicksaviking

[Platoon]

I seem to remember one year when Tim McCarver did a playoff series instead of Kaat? I was really disappointed. Kaat shared more insight and info, and used only half the words McCarver did. I still consider him the best baseball broadcaster I have ever heard! (Sorry Dick).

[jokin]

I seem to remember one year when Tim McCarver did a playoff series instead of Kaat? I was really disappointed. Kaat shared more insight and info, and used only half the words McCarver did. I still consider him the best baseball broadcaster I have ever heard! (Sorry Dick).

 

Vin Scully?