Molitor Pushing Hunter Reunion

[Linus]

Come in off the ledge everybody.  We have no idea if this report is accurate or, if it is, how serious the Twins interest is.  Perhaps they are touching base because they want to make sure they have a back up plan in case they can't sign somebody better.

 

I want Rasmus or somebody that will improve the defense.  However, if they can't seal that deal and you are asking if I would choose Hunter or Parmelee...........

[clone52]

Seth,

 

I am curious about the disconnect between you and Nick's comments from the 11/11 article:

 

"What should they be looking for in a prospective pickup at this position? Well, that also seems fairly clear. Considering that they fielded the worst defensive outfield in baseball this year, the Twins should really be seeking a player who can cover ground and provide some much-needed help for the pitching staff."

 

-Nick Nelson

 

It seems by you saying you would not have a huge problem if we sign Hunter, you don't agree that we should  make defense a priority in LF.  Or do you think Torii is still a good defender?

 

Well, first off, maybe they platoon Hunter with Arcia in right field.  Hunter against the lefties and Arcia against teh righties.  That improves the RF defense for 1/3 of the games.  Next, Hunter is probably going to get 1 day off a week.  That means roughly 50% of the year, he is improving the outfield defense (or not playing).

 

That means 50% of the time he would be playing LF.  Would he be that much worse than what we put out their last year?  Its not like Willingham was a gold glover.  I don't know about all the sabremetric defensive ratings, but how close would he be to that?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Well, first off, maybe they platoon Hunter with Arcia in right field.  Hunter against the lefties and Arcia against teh righties.  That improves the RF defense for 1/3 of the games.  Next, Hunter is probably going to get 1 day off a week.  That means roughly 50% of the year, he is improving the outfield defense (or not playing).

 

That means 50% of the time he would be playing LF.  Would he be that much worse than what we put out their last year?  Its not like Willingham was a gold glover.  I don't know about all the sabremetric defensive ratings, but how close would he be to that?

I don't want to make Arcia a platoon player before his 24th birthday.  Also, according to most measures, Hunter's defense was just as bad as Arcia's last year.

 

And in LF -- the point isn't to "not be worse than last year" -- the point is to get notably BETTER than last year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Come in off the ledge everybody.  We have no idea if this report is accurate or, if it is, how serious the Twins interest is.  Perhaps they are touching base because they want to make sure they have a back up plan in case they can't sign somebody better.

 

I want Rasmus or somebody that will improve the defense.  However, if they can't seal that deal and you are asking if I would choose Hunter or Parmelee...........

The report is that the Twins are pushing hard for Hunter.  (And it's coming from a reliable source, and it's not the first report connecting them.)  If the report is accurate, we know their level of interest.

 

And if the options somehow come down to Hunter or Parmelee (or hope for another guy to jump up from AA), the Twins front office has already failed.  If you're going to Hunter as a last resort, what's the point in going after him at all?

[tobi0040]

And in LF -- the point isn't to "not be worse than last year" -- the point is to get notably BETTER than last year.

 

Yes.  You beat me to it.

 

The old saying, it is better to aim high and miss your target than to aim low and hit it.  Aiming to not be worse than last year is the epitome is aiming low.

[clone52]

I don't want to make Arcia a platoon player before his 24th birthday.  Also, according to most measures, Hunter's defense was just as bad as Arcia's last year.

 

And in LF -- the point isn't to "not be worse than last year" -- the point is to get notably BETTER than last year.

 

No need to make any changes then.  Keep Santana in CF and make Schafer the everyday left fielder.

 

Honestly, though, an outfield of Hunter in LF, Schafer in CF and Arcia in RF is BETTER than last year.  It might not be a ton better, but it would be better.

 

Who on last year's coaching staff was a guy who could help out the outfielders based on past experience?  Was there anyone?  Having Hunter around could improve a guy like Arcia's defense beyond what any of us can even see.  If guys were having trouble learning what angles to take, how to read balls on bats and that type of stuff, maybe Molitor realized the coaching staff didn't have anyone who could get through to the young guys.  If Molitor believes adding Hunter helps in this area, then maybe we should let the new manager have his shot.  Shoot, maybe Hunter doesn't play every game and becomes the best bench player the Twins have had in awhile.

 

Anyone who could compare this to signing Kubel or Bartlett is crazy.  At the very least, Hunter is not washed up offensively.  Perhaps this opens up the possibility of using Vargas as a trade chip (maybe as the centerpiece of for my dream trade to get Cole Hamels).

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

His defense is likely better than Arcia and Parmalee as well, which isn't saying much.

 

I've always had a hard time getting the meaningful information out of the defensive stats at baseball-reference, but perhaps someone could interpret that. Is this perception of Hunter's D as better than those two based in fact?

[Steven Buhr]

Honestly, I don't think ending up with Hunter as the "veteran OF addition" for 2015 would bother me nearly as much as the fact that, if the Twins do sign him, it's likely that he'll be an early signing (aka overpaid). He simply is no longer the kind of player that the Twins (or any team, really) should be targeting at this point in the offseason. The goal should be to aim higher, if you feel you have a genuine need to improve at the position.

 

If you're willing to settle for marginal improvement, which I think most of us would agree is likely to be the best-case scenario with Hunter, you wait out the market and see who's getting antsy in January because they haven't got a job yet.

 

I could understand if the pressure to overpay a bit to sign Hunter now was coming from the owner or bean counters. Maybe there's an old stash of Hunter shirseys in boxes somewhere that they'd suddenly have a market for and maybe his name would sell a few tickets. But I agree with those who are disappointed that it appears to be Molitor who is driving the Hunter bandwagon.

 

Typically, I just like to come out of each offseason feeling like the Twins made more good roster decisions than bad ones. An early Hunter signing won't cause me to wash my hands of the organization, but it would put them one hash mark down in the "good v bad" tally before the Winter Meetings even get underway.

[nicksaviking]

I want this team to get younger, not older.  Still, Hunter doesn't bother me that much.  His defense hasn't been good, but he's still a good athlete.  I'd guess his defensive ratings are mostly due to a decreased range.  That would be a much bigger issue at the quite large Comerica RF; not so much at TF.  Arcia hasn't played well because he takes bad angles and doesn't play the ball well off the wall.  Those probably aren't things that would be as concerning with a veteran like Hunter.  You don't have to run much when your stadium's RF is the size of an elevator.

[tobi0040]

Honestly, I don't think ending up with Hunter as the "veteran OF addition" for 2015 would bother me nearly as much as the fact that, if the Twins do sign him, it's likely that he'll be an early signing (aka overpaid). He simply is no longer the kind of player that the Twins (or any team, really) should be targeting at this point in the offseason. The goal should be to aim higher, if you feel you have a genuine need to improve at the position.

 

If you're willing to settle for marginal improvement, which I think most of us would agree is likely to be the best-case scenario with Hunter, you wait out the market and see who's getting antsy in January because they haven't got a job yet.

 

I could understand if the pressure to overpay a bit to sign Hunter now was coming from the owner or bean counters. Maybe there's an old stash of Hunter shirseys in boxes somewhere that they'd suddenly have a market for and maybe his name would sell a few tickets. But I agree with those who are disappointed that it appears to be Molitor who is driving the Hunter bandwagon.

 

Typically, I just like to come out of each offseason feeling like the Twins made more good roster decisions than bad ones. An early Hunter signing won't cause me to wash my hands of the organization, but it would put them one hash mark down in the "good v bad" tally before the Winter Meetings even get underway.

 

Good point on timing.  Coming out of the gates our big target is a 39 year old OF, that really should be a weak hitting DH.  That is a let down.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Anyone who could compare this to signing Kubel or Bartlett is crazy.  At the very least, Hunter is not washed up offensively.

May be true, but this is starting to feel like "2013 Reunion Tour: The Sequel" as we've already brought Eddie G on board, and now we're going after Torii. Why not look forward instead!

[Steven Buhr]

Good point on timing.  Coming out of the gates our big target is a 39 year old OF, that really should be a weak hitting DH.  That is a let down.

"Let down" is a good choice of words. I wouldn't be angry or disgusted or anything that extreme, but I'd feel let down a bit. You start the offseason with a housecleaning in the field management area, get a little buzz going with the new manager and staff and then... sign a 39 year old OF early in the FA season. Definitely would be a momentum killer, to me.

 

Who knows? Maybe Jack Goin will be able to show the decision makers good reason not to be overly aggressive in pursuit of Hunter.

[clone52]

Good point on timing.  Coming out of the gates our big target is a 39 year old OF, that really should be a weak hitting DH.  That is a let down.

 

If they could get him on a 1 year deal, it wouldn't be so bad.  The OF of the future hopefully isn't far away (Buxton, Rosario, Kepler, Arcia, Brett-Walker, Harrison).  Do you really want to clog up the outfield with a guy on a 3 year contract?

 

Maybe there is a better option for a guy on a 1 or maybe 2 year contract.

[tobi0040]

If they could get him on a 1 year deal, it wouldn't be so bad.  The OF of the future hopefully isn't far away (Buxton, Rosario, Kepler, Arcia, Brett-Walker, Harrison).  Do you really want to clog up the outfield with a guy on a 3 year contract?

 

Maybe there is a better option for a guy on a 1 or maybe 2 year contract.

 

The only guy on the FA market I would give more than one year to would be Rasmus. I think he would be a natural upgrade/stability play in CF, then he can move to a corner when Buxton comes up.  

 

Torii is going to cost $10M that could be better spent elsewhere. We could find any number of guys for $3-4M that could platoon with Hicks and put up the same numbers offensively and be better defensively.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Didn't the Twins just get rid of Josh Willingham? Why do they want him back?

[Linus]

The report is that the Twins are pushing hard for Hunter.  (And it's coming from a reliable source, and it's not the first report connecting them.)  If the report is accurate, we know their level of interest.

 

And if the options somehow come down to Hunter or Parmelee (or hope for another guy to jump up from AA), the Twins front office has already failed.  If you're going to Hunter as a last resort, what's the point in going after him at all?

That's the point: we don't know if the report is accurate, so we don't know if the Twins are pushing hard or soft or anything in between.  I don't consider something "tweeted" to be a "reliable" source much less a source that can also indicate how hard the Twins are pushing for him.

 

Regarding whether they've "already failed" - that is non-sense.  Part of pursuing free agents is checking into a number of players, even if they are the 4th most desirable option.  We have no idea how interested any of the superior candidates are in joining the club.

 

If it turns out that Hunter is the only outfielder they pursue, I'll be the first in line to criticize them.  Until we know that, I'm going to choose to not get hysterical about it.

[TheDean]

Didn't the Twins just get rid of Josh Willingham? Why do they want him back?

 

I don't know if you heard: The Met's said that overpaying for aging, right-handed, former Twin corner outfielders with limited mobility is a major market inefficiency. How could they be wrong? Everyone should be doing it.

 

I jest of course...but there's a strange bit of truth. I mean, if Cuddy was paid like he was, and Torii is sizing up quite a bit of interest...you'd have to think that Willingham is thinking hard about staying out of retirement.

[tobi0040]

I don't know if you heard: The Met's said that overpaying for aging, right-handed, former Twin corner outfielders with limited mobility is a major market inefficiency. How could they be wrong? Everyone should be doing it.

 

I jest of course...but there's a strange bit of truth. I mean, if Cuddy was paid like he was, and Torii is sizing up quite a bit of interest...you'd have to think that Willingham is thinking hard about staying out of retirement.

 

We should have signed Cuddy and moved him back to his natural position (SS).    Cuddy at short stop and Hunter in LF, our two holes are filled.

[pierre75275]

I think this is being way over thought. I think molitor is pry simply looking at Hunter as an upgrade over colabello. Realistically... at least in my eyes...Hunter replaces Colabello as the rf option and colabello is offrighted off the roster

[Teflon]

Forget Torii Hunter, I've got your team chemistry right here...

 

 

http://www.msichicago.org/fileadmin/blog/msi/2012-10/breakingbad_608.jpg

[GoGonzoJournal]

Mostly agree with everyone on this one. Torii's a waste of money, especially with Rosario nearly ready to play LF. It's up to the manager to set the clubhouse culture, not the players. They take on the qualities of their boss because those qualities are worth having. See Buck Showalter, Ned Yost, and Bruce Bochy. Molitor is already passing on his responsibilities to others. Could have had Ozzie...

[GoGonzoJournal]

I think this is being way over thought. I think molitor is pry simply looking at Hunter as an upgrade over colabello. Realistically... at least in my eyes...Hunter replaces Colabello as the rf option and colabello is offrighted off the roster

Arcia is the RF option. If the Twins pay Hunter millions to be the backup OF when they could pay some kid $550,000 (Hicks) or even $1 million for Jordan Schafer, I'll become a Nats fan. You don't need coaches on the field if you have good coaches...

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not suggesting I'd change allegiance over 1 data point........but this isn't one data point. It is a trend. It is also, if true, an awful indictment of the new manager imo. 

[GoGonzoJournal]

The only guy on the FA market I would give more than one year to would be Rasmus. I think he would be a natural upgrade/stability play in CF, then he can move to a corner when Buxton comes up.  

 

Torii is going to cost $10M that could be better spent elsewhere. We could find any number of guys for $3-4M that could platoon with Hicks and put up the same numbers offensively and be better defensively.

Jordan Schafer would be even cheaper, with Rosario waiting in the wings.

[tobi0040]

Jordan Schafer would be even cheaper, with Rosario waiting in the wings.

 

I think some reason exists for the disparity in price between Schafer and Rasmus.  They are about the same age. 

 

Schafer has a career .621 OPS, OPS + of 72, and 12 career HR. 

 

Rasmus has a career .751 OPS, OPS + of 103, and 116 career HR.  Including seasons of and OPS + of 132 and another of 127.  Two other seasons over 100.

 

I actually think Torii and Rasmus sign about the same deal.  1-10.   If he is looking to rebuild value, we could just lock him into CF all year.  We have to have the least competition at CF out there.

[Major League Ready]

How about if we get a guy who can play defense and provide leader?  Let's start with ... can play defense.

[D. Hocking]

That's the point: we don't know if the report is accurate, so we don't know if the Twins are pushing hard or soft or anything in between.  I don't consider something "tweeted" to be a "reliable" source much less a source that can also indicate how hard the Twins are pushing for him.

 

 

I would love to see what kind of reaction a tweet like this would get:

 

"I have heard that the Terry Ryan and Rick Anderson met for lunch.  Is it possible that Andy might be back next year?"

[nicksaviking]

I don't want Hunter, but I still don't get the love for Rasmus, I wouldn't want to give him more than one year either.  He has way too many on base issues for me to want him as more than a 4th OFor platoon player.  This team may have worse 4th OF/platoon options now, but I wouldn't compound the problem overpaying in years for only a slightly less frustrating player.

[Brandon]

I don't think signing Hunter is a bad move.  I think signing Hunter completes the lineup so that we are pretty strong 1-9.  We already have a solid lineup.  This makes it better.  Defensively probably not the best but I bet he makes others in the OF better. Plus its only for 1 year contract.  I keep hearing we are not contending next year anyways so if you believe that then why does it matter.  we obviously don't like our current options.

 

Then we go out and get a starting pitcher.  now we have a 85 win team capable of making the play offs. 

 

Look at it if Detroit is loosing Hunter and likely Shertzer are they going to be a better team next year? NO....

Kansas City is loosing Shields and Butler and has a weak overall offense.  yes they have some really good points but they are loosing a fair amount of talent are they going to be better?  NO.....

 

The Indians are on the up and up so we may have to contend with them but the Whitesox are treading water.  the only thing keeping them afloat is the Abreu signing and Chris Sale otherwise this team would need a complete and total rebuild. 

 

So whose to say we cant contend if we address our obvious holes on our team.

[Otto von Ballpark]

That's the point: we don't know if the report is accurate, so we don't know if the Twins are pushing hard or soft or anything in between.  I don't consider something "tweeted" to be a "reliable" source much less a source that can also indicate how hard the Twins are pushing for him.

 

Regarding whether they've "already failed" - that is non-sense.  Part of pursuing free agents is checking into a number of players, even if they are the 4th most desirable option.  We have no idea how interested any of the superior candidates are in joining the club.

 

If it turns out that Hunter is the only outfielder they pursue, I'll be the first in line to criticize them.  Until we know that, I'm going to choose to not get hysterical about it.

Wolfson is a local TV sports reporter that actively covers the team.  If you don't consider him to be reliable, you're free to provide evidence.  But the fact that he used the most immediate means to disseminate his information (Twitter) does not alone make him unreliable.  If he repeats this information on the TV news tonight, will that suddenly make him more reliable, in your eyes?

 

 

My "already failed" comment did not apply to the present time, but the future time that posited, where our choices for starting LF may be Parmelee or Hunter.  If that's the choice we are left with, I am pretty sure that would count as another offseason where we failed to adequately address the OF.